Azerbaijan Defence Programs & Military Development

[xenon54 out]

Because we have not build those pipelines, unions, ... an also have not gave them enough reasons to be sure about their share of interests with cooperating with us.

The existing Pipelines from Azerbaijan to Turkey is allready a pain in *** of Russia i dont think they can take any more.

This who, are turkic people who need to achieve democracies.
and after that, world powers, including Russia, who prefer to have less trouble in dealing with a dictator than democracies.
BTW, baltic republics(with being in the same situation as us or Ukrine) are democratic, and Russians could not stop them, since their local population was truly determined for a democracy

Ehhm Russia is pretty happy with the dictators because he is allready controlling them, a democratic country could do its decisions by itself which isnt in Russias interests when they allready have the control.

Baltic countrys are heavily influenced and neighboring democratic countrys Russia couldnt do anything against it but the opposite is the case in CA.

 

[rmi5]

though what you said makes sense, it seems Russia just want to prolong the conflict between Armenia and Azerbaijan (what if Russia integrates piss poor Armenia one day? we will face Russia directly in regard to NK) for its own benefits and you also shouldnt forget that it is Russia that doesnt want this trans-Caspian pipeline between Turkmenistan and Azerbaijan. As you said, it's due their own interest. we will have to be really lucky if we want Russia to sit back and allow Turkic countries to develop strong ties among them, only to push out excessive Russian influence (militarily, politically, economically) as much as possible from the Turkic world later on (that's one of the aims of a Turkic union, isn't it?). in my humble opinion, Russia is already just toying with the Turkic world, doing what it pleases with minimal resistance, and yet we, Turkics, should be the ones to put our trust and goodwill in the Russians? again, some things you said makes sense, but we shouldn't be naive. I wouldnt want to tag along, put my trust and depend on a 'partner/friend' who has a record of ditching partners, doing injustice against Turkics and who also wants the Turkic to remain dependent on him. I would prefer the long road; developing Turkic world while we keep balanced relations with US, EU, Russia and China. at a point in the future we should have the leverage to switch camps If one of them goes aggressive on us. just i dont believe that we can reach the goal of Turkic union if we put our trust in Russia to get to that goal.

We should not trust Russia, nor any other world power. We just need to play the game with them. You may call it friendship, but it's not about having trust. We definitely need to engage US, and EU in this political game as well, since it can give us an upper-hand in dealing with Russia. But, at the same time, we should avoid openly confronting Russians or any other world power.

The existing Pipelines from Azerbaijan to Turkey is allready a pain in *** of Russia i dont think they can take any more.

Exactly right, hence we need to cause more pain in their ***(if you want to call it so), in an extent that they lose interest in taking anymore
We should not threaten them directly, do not show open hostility, and do offer cooperation, at the same time, as well.

Ehhm Russia is pretty happy with the dictators because he is allready controlling them, a democratic country could do its decitions by itself which isnt in Russias interests when they allready have the control.

Baltic countrys are heavily influenced and neighboring democratic countrys Russia couldnt do anything against it but the opposite is the case in CA.

Yup, I agree. I am just emphasizing that local people have more important roles in this process than Russia or anyone else. But, both of them are important factors.

 

[usernameless]

We should not trust Russia, nor any other world power. We just need to play the game with them. You may call it friendship, but it's not about having trust. We definitely need to engage US, and EU in this political game as well, since it can give us an upper-hand in dealing with Russia. But, at the same time, we should avoid openly confronting Russians or any other world power.

completely agreed. dependency for short term is inevitable for some CA countries, but in the long run we really should slowly work towards a Turkic union that has a strong enough backbone to become an equal voice with Russia. that might need a very long while though.

 

[asena_great]

@xenon54 @usernameless @telkon guys u do not following me ! i explain karabakh one more time

why russians helping armenians

1- stop turkic countries to sell energy to eu which would mean destorying russian economy (and it's future plan )

2 stop connections between turkey and it's turkic brothers

3 keep the turkic isolation and forcing them to join the eurasian union, customs union

ok if we could do these things

1 makeing pipline to eu

2 making turkic union (similar union like eu ) and breaking russian isolation replacing russian goods with turkish one and end their influence over us


what use armenia will have for russians ?? they will failed in their goals now look to russians they have lost their markets (big pain ) and their arch enemy have knife to their main economic vessel the eu gas market and those arch enemy with such leverage (which their oppistions are Thirsty for revenge on russia ) are offering friendship and a fair share in their economical bloc along with cooperation in eu gas market in exchange for armenians accept to be redeemed refuse and we will lower gas price to eu that much the russia will fall in big asssd pain what do u think russians will do ??

 

[rmi5]

completely agreed. dependency for short term is inevitable for some CA countries, but in the long run we really should slowly work towards a Turkic union that has a strong enough backbone to become an equal voice with Russia. that might need a very long while though.

Yup, we need to have long term plans, and good leadership and informed educated nationalistic people to achieve such goals.
Much much more integration inside Turkic countries, Building pipelines, and taking control of energy, then play the game all world powers, and cooperate with all of them to achieve our goals

 

[xenon54 out]

@xenon54 @usernameless @telkon guys u do not following me ! i explain karabakh one more time

why russians helping armenians

1- stop turkic countries to sell energy to eu which would mean destorying russian economy (and it's future plan )

2 stop connections between turkey and it's turkic brothers

3 keep the turkic isolation and forcing them to join the eurasian union, customs union

ok if we could do these things

1 makeing pipline to eu

2 making turkic union (similar union like eu ) and breaking russian isolation replacing russian goods with turkish one and end their influence over us


what use armenia will have for russians ?? they will failed in their goals now look to russians they have lost their markets (big pain ) and their arch enemy have knight to their main economic vessel the eu gas market and those arch enemy with such leverage (which their oppistions are Thirsty for revenge on russia ) are offering friendship and a fair share in their economical bloke along with cooperation in eu gas market in exchange for armenians accept to be redeemed refuse and we will lower gas price to eu that much the russia will fall in big asssd pain what do u think russians will do ??

I dont think there is a single one who disagrees with you here but the reality is, most Turkic countrys are heavily influenced by Russia and there are some disputes between Turkic countrys, again the divide and conquer tactic.

Thats why im saying they need to get rid of Russian infuence, be friendly but dont think about joining Eurasian Union.

 

[rmi5]

@xenon54 @usernameless @telkon guys u do not following me ! i explain karabakh one more time

why russians helping armenians

1- stop turkic countries to sell energy to eu which would mean destorying russian economy (and it's future plan )

2 stop connections between turkey and it's turkic brothers

3 keep the turkic isolation and forcing them to join the eurasian union, customs union

ok if we could do these things

1 makeing pipline to eu

2 making turkic union (similar union like eu ) and breaking russian isolation replacing russian goods with turkish one and end their influence over us


what use armenia will have for russians ?? they will failed in their goals now look to russians they have lost their markets (big pain ) and their arch enemy have knight to their main economic vessel the eu gas market and those arch enemy with such leverage (which their oppistions are Thirsty for revenge on russia ) are offering friendship and a fair share in their economical bloke along with cooperation in eu gas market in exchange for armenians accept to be redeemed refuse and we will lower gas price to eu that much the russia will fall in big asssd pain what do u think russians will do ??

100% agreed.

 

[asena_great]

Yup, we need to have long term plans, and good leadership and informed educated nationalistic people to achieve such goals.
Much much more integration inside Turkic countries, Building pipelines, and taking control of energy, then play the game all world powers, and cooperate with all of them to achieve our goals

and ofc turkey must achieved certain level of economy and sciences

I dont think there is a single one who disagrees with you here but the reality is, most Turkic countrys are heavily influenced by Russia and there are some disputes between Turkic countrys, again the divide and conquer tactic.

Thats why im saying they need to get rid of Russian infuence, be friendly but dont think about joining Eurasian Union.

u just need turkmenistan and azerbijan at start the rest will follow u after we break russia
now im going to buy some Watermelon i will join discussion when i come back

idk u guys but i have common understanding with @rmi5

 

[rmi5]

and ofc turkey must achieved certain level of economy and sciences

Sure, Turkey needs to be the pivot, and pivot needs to have a certain level of economy, science, less islamism, and less focus on Middle East.

 

[xenon54 out]

u just need turkmenistan and azerbijan at start the rest will follow u after we break russia
now im going to buy some Watermelon i will join discussion when i come back
idk u guys but i have common understanding with @rmi5

Just two weeks ago a Azerbaijani guy was calling Turkmenistan their enemy in this thread. Turkic world needs to get its shit together or they will stay Russian sattelites forever.

 

[rmi5]

Just last week a Azerbaijani guy was calling Turkmenistan their enemy in this thread. Turkic world need to get its shit together or they will stay Russian sattelites forever.

Every $hit happens for a reason. Turkmenistan does not want to be our enemy but she is forced to act so, since Russians want them to do so. Turkmens have no other option, since all of their income, which is gas, is in control of Russians. build the pipelines and make them independent from Russia, then they will become best friends with Azerbaijan

 

[xenon54 out]

Every $hit happens for a reason. Turkmenistan does not want to be our enemy but she is forced to act so, since Russians want them to do so. Turkmens have no other option, since all of their income, which is gas, is in control of Russians. build the pipelines and make them independent from Russia, then they will become best friends with Azerbaijan

But Russia ehhm sry i mean the independent Turkmenistan doesnt want Pipelines.

 

[Alienoz_TR]

Every $hit happens for a reason. Turkmenistan does not want to be our enemy but she is forced to act so, since Russians want them to do so. Turkmens have no other option, since all of their income, which is gas, is in control of Russians. build the pipelines and make them independent from Russia, then they will become best friends with Azerbaijan

Turkey and Azerbaijan were separated 500 years ago ( during sultan-shah rivalry). Western Turks (Anatolia&Azerbaijan) and Turkmenistan were separated 1000 years ago. We share with you more than we share with them. I see Turkmenistanis far distant cousins of ours than Azerbaijani Turks. Lets keep unity between Turks in Near East (ME and Caucasus).

 

[usernameless]

@xenon54 @usernameless @telkon guys u do not following me ! i explain karabakh one more time

why russians helping armenians

1- stop turkic countries to sell energy to eu which would mean destorying russian economy (and it's future plan )

2 stop connections between turkey and it's turkic brothers

3 keep the turkic isolation and forcing them to join the eurasian union, customs union

ok if we could do these things

1 makeing pipline to eu

2 making turkic union (similar union like eu ) and breaking russian isolation replacing russian goods with turkish one and end their influence over us


what use armenia will have for russians ?? they will failed in their goals now look to russians they have lost their markets (big pain ) and their arch enemy have knight to their main economic vessel the eu gas market and those arch enemy with such leverage (which their oppistions are Thirsty for revenge on russia ) are offering friendship and a fair share in their economical bloke along with cooperation in eu gas market in exchange for armenians accept to be redeemed refuse and we will lower gas price to eu that much the russia will fall in big asssd pain what do u think russians will do ??

Armenia is just a small detail, but Russia shows its true face in that case. Even when Armenia chapter is closed, Russia still will try to keep its influence over Turkics. What i wrote is actually my general thought about Russia - Turkic relations. If Turkey, Azerbaijan and Turkmenistan can make a solid step (like taking joint decisions and becoming 'one voice, one body' in international politics) in order to lay the foundation of common economical and political partnership, the rest of CA will eventually follow. Russia has an especially easy time because Turkic countries now are either not ready to support each other (focusing on own country first) to the extend that is required imo or just dont wanna bother. If we can make one common stance and 'invite' Russia for equal partnership instead of what now seems to be merely dictating and pressuring Turkic leaders, Russia will at least have to reconsider its approach to us eventually, but unfortunately i dont see such common Turkic steps happen anytime soon due lack of solid economies, common goal vision, disputes among Turkics and such.

 

[rmi5]

But Russia ehhm sry i mean the independent Turkmenistan doesnt want Pipelines.

Let's make those pipelines, then you would see how they will want those pipelines believe me dude, I know Turkmens very well and know how they truly feel about Russia, and what they really want