Featured Azerbaijan and Pakistan JF-17 negotiations

[Nasr]

Hi

Assalam-u-Alaikum

You Only been reading it for last 15 years---gd for you.

There is a marked difference between reading something and studying a subject. I have done the latter, for the last 15 years. I suggest you read my post again before responding.

But your understanding of the issue is minimal---. You are just an average pakistani male who has a knee jerk reaction to the issue---.

Pray tell, on what basis or yard stick have you come to conclude that my understanding of the issue is "minimal"? Explanation was given as to why Azerbaijan is a hyena in sheep skin. Prior to my shedding light on the subject, most were not aware that Azerbaijan is closely knit with the illegal state of israel. Giving historical and racial-links as references, was sufficient to prove to all, that Azerbaijan is crooked. Same goes for all those Muslim countries that have relations with that criminal zionist state. But of course, you call it "knee jerk" for whatever unexplained reason.

It seems as though, you're one of those who have no issue with israel. Perhaps that maybe your lack of study of the Holy Quran, or perhaps you don't give a damn either way. Irrespective of, it is clear that you aren't equipped to respond intellectually. Hence you chose to respond with degrading remarks. Well at least that exposed your actual acumen level on the subject.

Young sir likes of you are filling up the streets of Pakistan and other Muslim countries.

You know, I really have an innate hatred for hinduvta yuppies, however what I hate even more is to fight with my own countrymen. So I choose to engage with you, intellectually and encourage you to respond with more reasoning and less derogatory remarks.

You kids are like a noodle---brittle when dry--and shapeless when wet---. All that the likes of you has done is yell scream and holler---no tactics---no strategy---no game plan---no learning how to act against the enemy---.

Interesting choice of words! But for your information, I am a grown man, 40+ years old.

Pakistan had a chance at coalition in GCC---and that was with the permission of the west---( their big blunder and fck up and of Pakistan for not understanding their blunder---).

Well my friend, here is where we pull our swords out. For an actual and real Muslim, an alliance with Najdis is worth not even the dirt under my shoes. Why? Because my beloved Prophet Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam has already spoken of these Najdis, as where "Qarn-u-Shaitaan" (Age of Satan) emerges from. So no! I would crush any suggestion of allying with Najdis, because I take the word of my beloved Prophet Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam over anyone else.

The Najdis have proven their worth, as they have chosen to ally with israel, not Pakistan. They have also chosen to ally with the West, when real Muslim country would oppose the West at all costs. Najdis have even allied with Pakistan's arch enemy, india, on Kashmir. As for the so-called GCC Coalition, huh, their brutal war on the people of Yemen is a testament to how sin-laden these scoundrels really are. So if you want to go join them, go ahead. I choose to stand by my beloved Prophet Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, to my last breath.

Then you are getting into the cause and creation of Pakistan.

Brother, where else would I get into? The constitution of the United States of America? Or the Magna Carta? Seriously bro .... as a Pakistani, the cause and creation of Pakistan is the fundamental basis of understanding who we are. Anyone who chooses to ignore this subject, is living in neverland ranch.

Jinnah Sahib was a true secular---a whiskey drinker who may have liked pork as well---so don't get carried away with the name of Islamic Republic of Pakistan---.

I see that you have chosen the sub-standard route of argument. Care to back your claims with hard evidence to prove that Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a whiskey drinker, pork eater and so on?

If Jinnah was what you whimsically say he is, then why would he dedicate his life toward the plight of the Muslims in South Asia? Since of course, he was part of the "All India National Congress", then why leave such a strong party and fight for just Muslims? He was all for the unity of hindus and Muslims, then why change his stance and risk his political career?

The thing is, you have no answer for those questions. Since you're bitterness and whatever the heck is causing your aneurysm posts, does not conform to logic or reasoning at all. If Jinnah was a true secular, then he would've stuck with the indian Congress and not fought for a Pakistan.

The name Islamic republic of Pakistan was given to attract those muslims who did not want to leave india and join pakistan---Islami was to attract the muslims---.

Pakistan was created for Muslims of South Asia, as the british colonial rule was coming to an end. As for your whole "attraction" argument, well explain why in India, there is the world's third largest population of Muslims? What an absurd reasoning you have, tsk ... tsk ... tsk! Calling Muhammad Ali Jinnah a whiskey drinker, pork eating secularist, without any proof or hard evidence. Then trying to dissuade Pakistanis from thinking that Pakistan has no Islam in it.

Wah, wah .... kya chaal chaltay ho!

You kids are so innocent and so illiterarte---it is so sad---.

Just remember---you are another loud mouth braggart---and there are hundreds of millions of you roaming the streets of The Islamic World.

Read my words carefully, because there is nothing a know-at-all like you or anyone else can say or do, that would make me abandon my faith in Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah. I choose to follow my Nabi, Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam ... not you. I choose to study the Noble Qur'an and seek to discern fact from fiction in the real world. For the Word of God is more powerful than the gibberish uttered by a buffoon.

So you can continue to mislead others to follow the Najidi scum, or to recognize the murderer zionist state of israel, or to associate with other trojan Muslim states like Turkey or Azerbaijan. I will continue to make my fellow countrymen aware that the Truth is in the Noble Qur'an and it is what gives a Muslim to fight back against shaitaan and it's fitna.

Now you can go back to ranting all you want!!!

 

[MastanKhan]

Azerbaijan has very good relation with Israel. Pakistan is sworn enemy of Israel. Azerbaijan won't buy JF-17 from Pakistan because Azerbaijan won't risk its good relation with Israel.

Hi,

Incorrect---pakistan is not a sworn enemy of Israel---. We share no border---we had no direct wars---. We just ask to resolve palestine and that is it.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Hi,

Incorrect---pakistan is not a sworn enemy of Israel---. We share no border---we had no direct wars---. We just ask to resolve palestine and that is it.

@Tai Hai Chen I second that opinion. Just resolve Palestenian issue, and we are ok with Israel.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

...

Jinnah Sahib was a true secular---a whiskey drinker who may have liked pork as well---so don't get carried away with the name of Islamic Republic of Pakistan---.

The name Islamic republic of Pakistan was given to attract those muslims who did not want to leave india and join pakistan---Islami was to attract the muslims---.

Reckless arguments with blatant innuendo!
That, you'd choose to pen it without an inkling speaks volumes, impulsive one-upmanship...
First set innuendo on the back of an anecdotal conversation(third person) and nothing to back up and second waste of bandwidth as Pakistan officially became Islamic Republic in 1956, way past mass immigration from Indian Muslims.

 

[MastanKhan]

Reckless arguments with blatant innuendo!
That, you'd choose to pen it without an inkling speaks volumes, impulsive one-upmanship...
First set innuendo on the back of an anecdotal conversation(third person) and nothing to back up and second waste of bandwidth as Pakistan officially became Islamic Republic in 1956, way past mass immigration from Indian Muslims.

Hi,

State your position clearly---. I do not know where you are coming from.

 

[MuhammedAli]

We should give them block 3 and start on block 4. Meanwhile Tejas is still on the block.

You mean Tejas is still a big stone block waiting for stone masons to make it fly.

 

[MastanKhan]

Assalam-u-Alaikum



There is a marked difference between reading something and studying a subject. I have done the latter, for the last 15 years. I suggest you read my post again before responding.



Pray tell, on what basis or yard stick have you come to conclude that my understanding of the issue is "minimal"? Explanation was given as to why Azerbaijan is a hyena in sheep skin. Prior to my shedding light on the subject, most were not aware that Azerbaijan is closely knit with the illegal state of israel. Giving historical and racial-links as references, was sufficient to prove to all, that Azerbaijan is crooked. Same goes for all those Muslim countries that have relations with that criminal zionist state. But of course, you call it "knee jerk" for whatever unexplained reason.

It seems as though, you're one of those who have no issue with israel. Perhaps that maybe your lack of study of the Holy Quran, or perhaps you don't give a damn either way. Irrespective of, it is clear that you aren't equipped to respond intellectually. Hence you chose to respond with degrading remarks. Well at least that exposed your actual acumen level on the subject.



You know, I really have an innate hatred for hinduvta yuppies, however what I hate even more is to fight with my own countrymen. So I choose to engage with you, intellectually and encourage you to respond with more reasoning and less derogatory remarks.



Interesting choice of words! But for your information, I am a grown man, 40+ years old.



Well my friend, here is where we pull our swords out. For an actual and real Muslim, an alliance with Najdis is worth not even the dirt under my shoes. Why? Because my beloved Prophet Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam has already spoken of these Najdis, as where "Qarn-u-Shaitaan" (Age of Satan) emerges from. So no! I would crush any suggestion of allying with Najdis, because I take the word of my beloved Prophet Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam over anyone else.

The Najdis have proven their worth, as they have chosen to ally with israel, not Pakistan. They have also chosen to ally with the West, when real Muslim country would oppose the West at all costs. Najdis have even allied with Pakistan's arch enemy, india, on Kashmir. As for the so-called GCC Coalition, huh, their brutal war on the people of Yemen is a testament to how sin-laden these scoundrels really are. So if you want to go join them, go ahead. I choose to stand by my beloved Prophet Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam, to my last breath.



Brother, where else would I get into? The constitution of the United States of America? Or the Magna Carta? Seriously bro .... as a Pakistani, the cause and creation of Pakistan is the fundamental basis of understanding who we are. Anyone who chooses to ignore this subject, is living in neverland ranch.



I see that you have chosen the sub-standard route of argument. Care to back your claims with hard evidence to prove that Muhammad Ali Jinnah was a whiskey drinker, pork eater and so on?

If Jinnah was what you whimsically say he is, then why would he dedicate his life toward the plight of the Muslims in South Asia? Since of course, he was part of the "All India National Congress", then why leave such a strong party and fight for just Muslims? He was all for the unity of hindus and Muslims, then why change his stance and risk his political career?

The thing is, you have no answer for those questions. Since you're bitterness and whatever the heck is causing your aneurysm posts, does not conform to logic or reasoning at all. If Jinnah was a true secular, then he would've stuck with the indian Congress and not fought for a Pakistan.



Pakistan was created for Muslims of South Asia, as the british colonial rule was coming to an end. As for your whole "attraction" argument, well explain why in India, there is the world's third largest population of Muslims? What an absurd reasoning you have, tsk ... tsk ... tsk! Calling Muhammad Ali Jinnah a whiskey drinker, pork eating secularist, without any proof or hard evidence. Then trying to dissuade Pakistanis from thinking that Pakistan has no Islam in it.

Wah, wah .... kya chaal chaltay ho!



Read my words carefully, because there is nothing a know-at-all like you or anyone else can say or do, that would make me abandon my faith in Allah Subhanahu Wata'aalah. I choose to follow my Nabi, Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam ... not you. I choose to study the Noble Qur'an and seek to discern fact from fiction in the real world. For the Word of God is more powerful than the gibberish uttered by a buffoon.

So you can continue to mislead others to follow the Najidi scum, or to recognize the murderer zionist state of israel, or to associate with other trojan Muslim states like Turkey or Azerbaijan. I will continue to make my fellow countrymen aware that the Truth is in the Noble Qur'an and it is what gives a Muslim to fight back against shaitaan and it's fitna.

Now you can go back to ranting all you want!!!

Hi,

You are so innocent young man---so innocent---. This world is a bad bad place---.

" Maulana Sherani further said that Palestine was the property of the Ottoman Caliphate, it has recognized Israel, it was the case of the Arabs, they have also accepted it, but thousands of kilometers away, there are selfish sentiments on this issue which are irrational. "

JUI-F's Maulana Shirani comes out against Fazlur Rehman and voices support for israel

JUI-F leader Maulana Sherani supports recognition of Israel. Maulana Muhammad Khan Sherani says that Pakistan should recognize Israel. In an interview with Saudi website Urdu News , Maulana Sherani said that recognizing Israel is not a religious issue but a political and international issue...

defence.pk

 

[PakPrinciples]

Hopefully they opt for the JF-17

Would help advance military to military ties, the arms industry of an ally nation and makes it easier to support Azerbaijan in case of a future conflict.

Pilots are breed to fly and kill not Sales .My heart cries when we are still in process of negotiation with countries like Azerbaijan/Turkey/KSA/Qatar for sales .

but the countries you count will never want this plane. You don't have to blame the army.

I have to agree with @RadarGudumluMuhimmat .

Large air forces, or those nations with a lot of money, which includes Pakistan are seeking 5th generation aircraft if not to entirely replace their existing fleet then to supplement it.

The JF-17 is a great jet but it's more geared towards those air forces that are budget conscious right now.

Turkey is looking to spend about $50 Billion USD on some 500 TAI TF-X fighter jets, Qatar just buys whatever it wants and may likely opt for the TF-X itself once its introduced while the KSA and UAE will seek the F-35.

JF-17 though makes a good choice for countries like Azerbaijan, Iran, Argentina in fact most South American and African air forces and that's where we should be focusing along with S.E Asian nations like the Philippines, Indonesia and maybe Malaysia.

 

[PakPrinciples]

You are so innocent young man---so innocent---. This world is a bad bad place---.

" Maulana Sherani further said that Palestine was the property of the Ottoman Caliphate, it has recognized Israel, it was the case of the Arabs, they have also accepted it, but thousands of kilometers away, there are selfish sentiments on this issue which are irrational. "

Lol, who knows maybe Trump's plan was to have a single Palestinian state with Palestinians as equal rights who'd eventually outnumber the Jews then take over the nations government and military and rename it to Palestine.

That could be a viable peace settlement that I think we could all live with.

I personally reject Shirani's point of view on this conflict.

1. Turkey's recognition of Israel is before there was representative government in the country and after the destruction of the Ottoman caliphate at the hands of the very nations which created Israel. So whether Turkey recognizes it now or not isn't necessarily a reason for us to do so.
2. In light verses like Surah 60:09 I do not see how we could reproach Israel particularly without a peace settlement:

"Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong."​

​

Deoband has some serious issues, their credibility is questionable considering their deep ties to the GCC monarchies.

Back in 2015 the JUI-F and Deoband in general were pushing for Pakitan's participation in the Saudi coalitions "war of terror" on the people of Yemen. This failed miserably, turned into one of the worlds worst humanitarian crises and now they're wading in on Palestine which coincidentally GCC nations are likely seeking Pakistan's support on?

The Arab nations that have so far recognized Israel aren't representative governments rather brutal authoritarian dictatorships where the people don't have a voice. It's clear that Arab opinion on this is largely negative confirmed by both NGO's and relevant Israeli ministries:
Israel Ministry of Strategic Affairs | 90% of the discourse on social media in Arabic about normalization with Israel - negative
DOHA Institute | 88% of Arabs oppose normalization with Israel

Turkey may be the only Muslim democracy that recognizes it and their relations have deteriorated since the rise of representative Muslim leadership under the AKP so much so that Israel regards Turkey as a growing threat:
Israeli military and intelligence assessments see Turkey as growing threat

Turkey only a few days ago filled the post of ambassador to Israel after a 2 year hiatus and that was to help ease tensions with the US and incoming President Joe Biden. However, from what I can tell, Turkey's diplomatic relations with Israel are almost non-existent.

So Israel's "friends" are tyrants and these are friendships facilitated by an overstretched US which has committed unspeakable horrors globally and is desperate to alleviate tensions so it can focus on China and the Indo-Pacific region.

I've also said this on other posts but not only does Pakistan gain nothing from recognizing Israel, in fact we only stand to lose, but our alliance with China puts us in a different camp from those allied to Israel.

Azerbaijan is closely knit with the illegal state of israel.

Brother, the Azeri's love Pakistan.

I've met a few irl and they've made it a point to highlight their close relationship to Pakistan before I even knew we had one.

Our job shouldn't be to concern ourselves with who any nations allies are at the moment instead develop strong ties with other nations particularly those that share cultural ties with us like Azerbaijan.

We should seek to extricate Israel, like the US, from all Muslim nations.

Incorrect---pakistan is not a sworn enemy of Israel---. We share no border---we had no direct wars---. We just ask to resolve palestine and that is it.

No, in light of the their crimes invading Palestine, driving Muslims from their homes and persecuting the Palestinian peoples they are our enemy.

They are directly aiding hegemonic Hindu terror by supporting India and we should be aiding freedom fighters that are in opposition to the Zionist occupation.

 

[MastanKhan]

Lol, who knows maybe Trump's plan was to have a single Palestinian state with Palestinians as equal rights who'd eventually outnumber the Jews then take over the nations government and military and rename it to Palestine.

That could be a viable peace settlement that I think we could all live with.

I personally reject Shirani's point of view on this conflict.

1. Turkey's recognition of Israel is before there was representative government in the country and after the destruction of the Ottoman caliphate at the hands of the very nations which created Israel. So whether Turkey recognizes it now or not isn't necessarily a reason for us to do so.
2. In light verses like Surah 60:09 I do not see how we could reproach Israel particularly without a peace settlement:

"Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong."​

​

Deoband has some serious issues, their credibility is questionable considering their deep ties to the GCC monarchies.

Back in 2015 the JUI-F and Deoband in general were pushing for Pakitan's participation in the Saudi coalitions "war of terror" on the people of Yemen. This failed miserably, turned into one of the worlds worst humanitarian crises and now they're wading in on Palestine which coincidentally GCC nations are likely seeking Pakistan's support on?

The Arab nations that have so far recognized Israel aren't representative governments rather brutal authoritarian dictatorships where the people don't have a voice. It's clear that Arab opinion on this is largely negative confirmed by both NGO's and relevant Israeli ministries:
Israel Ministry of Strategic Affairs | 90% of the discourse on social media in Arabic about normalization with Israel - negative
DOHA Institute | 88% of Arabs oppose normalization with Israel

Turkey may be the only Muslim democracy that recognizes it and their relations have deteriorated since the rise of representative Muslim leadership under the AKP so much so that Israel regards Turkey as a growing threat:
Israeli military and intelligence assessments see Turkey as growing threat

Turkey only a few days ago filled the post of ambassador to Israel after a 2 year hiatus and that was to help ease tensions with the US and incoming President Joe Biden. However, from what I can tell, Turkey's diplomatic relations with Israel are almost non-existent.

So Israel's "friends" are tyrants and these are friendships facilitated by an overstretched US which has committed unspeakable horrors globally and is desperate to alleviate tensions so it can focus on China and the Indo-Pacific region.

I've also said this on other posts but not only does Pakistan gain nothing from recognizing Israel, in fact we only stand to lose, but our alliance with China puts us in a different camp from those allied to Israel.



Brother, the Azeri's love Pakistan.

I've met a few irl and they've made it a point to highlight their close relationship to Pakistan before I even knew we had one.

Our job shouldn't be to concern ourselves with who any nations allies are at the moment instead develop strong ties with other nations particularly those that share cultural ties with us like Azerbaijan.

We should seek to extricate Israel, like the US, from all Muslim nations.



No, in light of the their crimes invading Palestine, driving Muslims from their homes and persecuting the Palestinian peoples they are our enemy.

They are directly aiding hegemonic Hindu terror by supporting India and we should be aiding freedom fighters that are in opposition to the Zionist occupation.

Hi,

Have the palestnians ever ruled a sultanate at any time in the past---?

 

[Nasr]

Brother, the Azeri's love Pakistan.

I've met a few irl and they've made it a point to highlight their close relationship to Pakistan before I even knew we had one.

Our job shouldn't be to concern ourselves with who any nations allies are at the moment instead develop strong ties with other nations particularly those that share cultural ties with us like Azerbaijan.

We should seek to extricate Israel, like the US, from all Muslim nations.

I haven't said that Azerbaijani Muslims are bad, if they are Muslim first, they are my brothers. But the Azerbaijani political elite are very close to israel.

As the only Muslim State which is a Nuclear Power, it is incumbent upon Pakistan to establish a rule in foreign policy, whereby if your govt is a friend of israel, then we don't want anything to do with you.

Turkey was the first Muslim State to recognize israel. And despite what they show on the news about deteriorating relations between Turkey and israel, the reality on the ground is far from it. Where israel murdered Turkish nationals on the aid flotilla to Gaza. But Turkey is more than happy to issue visas and entry to israeli tourists in the thousands. Kinda makes you see the bull$h!t the Turk Govt would other Muslim States believe.

Israelis flock to Turkey in record numbers

en.globes.co.il

And in trade, well now, $3.9 billions in 2018, tells one how much Turkey values Palestinian cause. And that's not all, Turkey has deep routed business communities intertwined with israelis. Which gives israelis political clout in Turkish politics. Not something one can overlook, particularly when the Turk Govt parades around the world, thumping their chests for being the leadership nation for the Islamic World. Yet their relationship with the pathetic, criminal state of israel reveals something opposite.

Turkey and Israel: Money seems to end animosity – DW – 12/12/2017

The hostility between Turkey and Israel has resurfaced over recognizing Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. Meanwhile, in terms of economic relations, trade between the countries has been growing steadily.

www.google.com

My objective is to analyze and detect emerging potential threats to Pakistan. You know the old saying, the snake that bites the fatal blow, is usually up your sleeve. And to identify the threat posed by the leadership's of both Azerbaijan and Turkey, is for not only Pakistan but also for Turkish Muslims and Azerbaijani Muslims who are my brothers in Islam. It wasn't so long ago that I warned my fellow countrymen about insidious nature of the Najdi leadership of Jazeerat-ul-Arab. People on this forum viciously attacked me back then, calling me an Iranian or whatever. It doesn't faze me, since my intent is for the love of my country, Pakistan. So I warn my people again, that the leadership's of Turkey and Azerbaijan are a Trojan Horse for Pakistan, exercize extreme caution when dealing with them.

A true friend and brother doesn't hesitate from telling you the Truth, no matter how bitter it maybe. And let me make it clear for future reference, even Iran, if and when it poses a threat to Pakistan, I would be as brutally honest in my analysis, as I am with the Najdis, Turks or Azeris. Again, my warning is not in hatred toward the people of Turkey, Arab World or Azerbaijan, rather their governments and their insidious characteristics.

 

[HammerHead081]

Pakistan might have been one of the first countries to accept Azerbaijan as an independent nation as well. In fact we should sell them the best gear we can so if push comes to shove with Armenia, they can come out on top.

We need to recognize the countries that support us and those we would want closer ties with. It doesn't happen by selling them watered down versions of a 4th generation aircraft. Give them the best you can offer and expect the same in return. Block III is not some magical or unique thing that only Pakistan has and no one else can offer.

From Air Pockets III;
"PM Nawaz Sharif had been overflying Azerbaijan territory (on 30th August 1991) when he was informed that Azerbaijan had announced its independence. PM instructed the pilot to convey Pakistan's instant recognition of the new state to Baku control. For this unusual method of announcing recognition, that was broadcast by the Azeri State TV and Radio with great jubilation, Pakistan is held in high esteem in Azerbaijan."

What a great person Nawaz Sharif used to be, he was betrayed by his own people when they chose Army over Democracy when it came to it. Musharraf destroyed this country and its leaders.

 

[Nasr]

What Pakistanis ought to prioritize on, is not democracy or dictatorship, rather who the criminal is, who steals from the country and it's people. In that light, Pakistanis ought to follow the money trail, and based on this rationale, one would find the likes of zardari, nawaz, diesel-mullah, shabaz and their criminal families and associates, to be the real traitors to Pakistan.

Democracy is a farce, whereas Islam is real and incorruptible. Study the Bible Quran and stand firmly behind our beloved Prophet, Nabi Muhammad Alaihi Salaat-u-Wassalam .... and you shall find Devine help to fight against these criminals and munafiqs.

 

[Yongpeng Sun-Tastaufen]

Azerbaijan has rock solid relation with Israel and Pakistan is hostile to Israel. It is highly unlikely Azerbaijan will anger Israel by buying JF-17 from Pakistan. They will buy FC-1 from China which has good relation with Israel.

 

[aziqbal]

too much pressure from Russia

I doubt Azeris will buy JF17 even if they wanted too