Australian growing relations with India, where does Pakistan stand?

[Gibbs]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry seeing the response of my fellow country men in this thread. For them there always is something. They don't want pakistan to have relations with anyone. US because it is working for its own interest, China because it's killing Muslims, Russia because it wasn't our warm water, Myanmar because it is killing Bengalis, gulf because they fighting Iran, Iran because they fighting gulf, Israel due to Palestine and now Australia because they are weak.

With this speed, soon India won't have to do anything to isolate us. We will do india's job.

Just be happy it's all hot air blown in a online forum from people not even living in the country, And they really don't have any impact on policy making in Pakistan itself

On the other hand Pakistani diplomacy need a major overhaul to counter an aggressive Indian overtures especially by the Modi regime with increasing success in recent years

 

[The Maverick]

Those calling Australia weak or insignifcant need s reality check

Not only do they have a GDP 5 times Pakistan their per capita income is like 40 times that of a Pakistani.

They have f18 super hornets quality navy and have just signed 40 billion dollar deal to license build French barracuda class nuclear subs.

Yes that's 40 billion dollars

I would take a Australian special forces commando into battle any day over 99% of the military elites in the world

They are tough people born winners just like their rugby and cricket team

It's also one of the preferred destinations for Pakistanis wishing to leave their country for better quality if life

 

[American Pakistani]

I seriously don't understand how India and Australia building relations in the andaman region can be such a pain point for Pakistanis ?
And why does the original poster even consider Australia s relationship with india to be some sort of challenge to Pakistan ?

If you don't understand this then you should not understand Afghanistan too.

Those calling Australia weak or insignifcant need s reality check

Not only do they have a GDP 5 times Pakistan their per capita income is like 40 times that of a Pakistani.

They have f18 super hornets quality navy and have just signed 40 billion dollar deal to license build French barracuda class nuclear subs.

Yes that's 40 billion dollars

I would take a Australian special forces commando into battle any day over 99% of the military elites in the world

They are tough people born winners just like their rugby and cricket team

It's also one of the preferred destinations for Pakistanis wishing to leave their country for better quality if life

Can't ignore your post without agreeing. Many of my country men's are like "angoor khattay hen". I wish they understand few things abt importance of international relations and diplomacy.

 

[VCheng]

Friend, there are people here its not worth interacting with one bit. Half of this convo you are having (on my side) is to someone that's "blank ignored space"... I've simply decided I don't need to see and deal with such a cretin...out of sight, out of mind...I deal with more than enough cretins as it is with no choice....I don't need more when I have choice in matter. I've grown entirely weary of it now.

Such folks as that one and the other half (that likely goes on ignore list soon enough too) of your interaction with "wall-wailing tabby stray" (if you remember earlier post I made heh) have something wrong in the head or life or maybe both to be this out of balance, consumed by this level of hatred and needing the visceral hate to always be the finality...the final word to someone anonymous they know nothing about.

It's simply easy for them here, because its hard to do out there (when people are not anonymous and have a body, mind and soul to confront). They are essentially weaklings angry at what the world is....and the world doesn't tolerate, much less sustain their whining and searing negativity very much compared to here.

Thus they get addicted to it here... a drug den of sorts. There's no real point to giving pages of replies and responses to them (whatever the intent or short term emotional gain/loss), they get a thrill from all that that you see....that's their bread and currency here. I reject their pitiful reckless game all together.

It's all part of the reason I am drastically tamping down my activity in this place as well...might as well come to near zero soon enough. World is already going through a low point this year especially, stuff is fraying more than usual....and I find people are becoming more stir-crazy and on edge more than usual....as bad as society already was becoming getting stuck and isolated away from meaning, purpose and depth.

I now understand online forums and online-scape is very much an antithesis to genuine understanding and socialization....it emboldens all that is wrong in us and erodes all that is right in us...in real life we would topple over from it, but virtually there is no basic counter-force to it....there is no real limit to the indulgence of imbalance.

Thus this waste land, just one of millions, is littered with all the zombie husks and shells of once-better men....or (more sadly) boys trying to be men. I do hope and pray one day they can and will change, improve and restore themselves....for their own sake, whatever it may take....I cant imagine what its like to be stuck that way for a whole life. Tolkien did have that as a disturbing side-hypothesis, the orcs were once originally elves....till a great monstrous corruption did them in.

The answer I feel is more people to simply reject this decline all together.... and make something of themselves honest and positive, and re-connect to greater source and greater destination.

After all how great is this world, this planet that shoulders this burden, her children that we are, we who clamour and impose more on her with time? She isn't not appreciated enough, we in our fickle ego and personal ambition forget about Mother Earth and Father Time all too much.

I for one can't wait to go out to immerse in nature once again soon, nothing nourishes a soul quite like it I find....human ego, human ambition, human reality even human existence...all the good and bad of it.... all completely and rightfully diminished to the tiniest molecule when you out there among the forests and lakes of Canada staring at the sunset and then milky way with maybe one loving companion to share it. Almost every story of every constellation I know quite well....point out fuzzy andromeda galaxy, the furthest thing you can see with your naked eye....and re-tell the story of how brave perseus rescued her...and there he is "Winking" not too far away.

Recently I was in for a very nice surprise on this kind of matter when I found Vedder's "Hard Sun" song was not an original but a cover of a Canadian singer's (Indio) work....and added bonus is the collab with Joni mitchell (backing vocals) and L Subramaniam (violin)...two artists I admire greatly... I had no idea before were in something together. The "her" of course refers ultimately to our grand planet:

Life should have such pleasant surprises, something I wish both on friend and foe that share this reality with me...they after all do temper the rough edges....in the hope there need not be foes at all one day.

When rough edges cannot be tempered, you have found a place not worth frequenting. My 2 cents.

@Joe Shearer @T-123456 @jbgt90 @Vergennes @KAL-EL @scorpionx @VCheng @jamahir @Chhatrapati @RAMPAGE

Your post above is truly worth a read, specially for those who can comprehend the depth of what you have said so eloquently. Thank you!

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Be careful all members, many Indians in false flags on this thread.

This thread is supposed to be an internal Pakistani discussion on recent events. Why are Indians coming in here and derailing our discussions?

You don't have to involve yourself in affairs which do not concern you.

If you don't understand this then you should not understand Afghanistan too.



Can't ignore your post without agreeing. Many of my country men's are like "angoor khattay hen". I wish they understand few things abt importance of international relations and diplomacy.

Ofcourse we are not cutting off ties with Australia, from which we do have agricultural benefits and expats. This is more like a discussion on what to do in the current situation.

My take is that we should establish and further our relations with Indonesia and China in SEA. We have to maintain balance in the region.

 

[Vanguard One]

Why would anyone in Australia listen to Pakistanis advice with respect to relationship with USA ? The focus on China is economic. There is little threat of Chinese invasion of Australia

China cant even invade Taiwan let alone try and invade Australia, the PLA can only do home movies and crush countries like Tibet which didn't have an army, or massacre innocent unarmed civilian in Tiananmen Square and protest in Hong Kong, or put innocent people in concentration camps.

Do you really think the CCP and their lackeys and boot lickers on this forum can actually invade another country? The PLA is not a army they are just there from show and to protect the CCP they are security wing of the CCP.

The sad thing is that many of these idiots and shit kickers are living in Australia or in other democratic countries.

 

[CIA Mole]

I don't get white countries, they don't want immigrants, yet they constantly put down colored folks.

 

[Nilgiri]

Your post above is truly worth a read, specially for those who can comprehend the depth of what you have said so eloquently. Thank you!

Some of us do know much about war's history, theory and instruments (past and present)... sordid subject it all is....but one you need to know lot of the time for greater purpose. One after all can't dance around that huge part of human nature and wish it weren't there....or imagine it all away...not when it affected so many and continues to do so....ever more so like an apocalyptic sword of damocles even.

But too many of us somewhat revel in it (even joke about it) or trivially dabble in it with no greater purpose. This extends at large to every sordid aspect of us mortals in general I suppose. That's the issue that most upsets me...but I grow both resigned and weary to it.

A certain exchange is seared in my memory, it always sends a shiver down my spine, esp the zimmer music creeping up....

CPT Ramsey (mocking LCDR Hunter): Von Clausewitz will now tell us exactly who the real enemy is!...Von?

LCDR Hunter's answer is basically my own conclusion:

@PanzerKiel @Joe Shearer @niaz @Jungibaaz @Vergennes @KAL-EL @T-123456 @jaibi @Socra

 

[Joe Shearer]

Some of us do know much about war's history, theory and instruments (past and present)... sordid subject it all is....but one you need to know lot of the time for greater purpose. One after all can't dance around that huge part of human nature and wish it weren't there....or imagine it all away...not when it affected so many and continues to do so....ever more so like an apocalyptic sword of damocles even.

But too many of us somewhat revel in it (even joke about it) or trivially dabble in it with no greater purpose. This extends at large to every sordid aspect of us mortals in general I suppose. That's the issue that most upsets me...but I grow both resigned and weary to it.

A certain exchange is seared in my memory, it always sends a shiver down my spine, esp the zimmer music creeping up....

CPT Ramsey (mocking LCDR Hunter): Von Clausewitz will now tell us exactly who the real enemy is!...Von?

LCDR Hunter's answer is basically my own conclusion:

@PanzerKiel @Joe Shearer @niaz @Jungibaaz @Vergennes @KAL-EL @T-123456 @jaibi @Socra

A terrific quote from a terrific film.

Amusing that Patton comes up in the conversation.

On a different tack altogether, that kind of a CO usually makes for a very uncomfortable ship.

 

[Nilgiri]

A terrific quote from a terrific film.

Amusing that Patton comes up in the conversation.

On a different tack altogether, that kind of a CO usually makes for a very uncomfortable ship.

Re-looking at this scene, I just realised that Viggo, a significant character (in events later), nods his head in background as Denzel says "the true nature of war is to serve itself".

Never noticed that before..... I love picking up little missed details when re-watching good movies.

They had an excellent cast selection for this movie too. I'll always remember Viggo mostly for Aragorn (he is simply Aragorn to me)...but he has been quite a good actor in other movies too.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Re-looking at this scene, I just realised that Viggo, a significant character (in events later), nods his head in background as Denzel says "the true nature of war is to serve itself".

Never noticed that before..... I love picking up little missed details when re-watching good movies.

They had an excellent cast selection for this movie too. I'll always remember Viggo mostly for Aragorn (he is simply Aragorn to me)...but he has been quite a good actor in other movies too.

Another thing - von Clausewitz is one of the most quoted and least read authors of all time.

 

[Nilgiri]

Another thing - von Clausewitz is one of the most quoted and least read authors of all time.

Indeed heh. Very very few actually read his stuff.....much less understand and put in context.

Piecemeal wordbites and soundbites are far more in fashion.

 

[SQ8]

Friend, there are people here its not worth interacting with one bit. Half of this convo you are having (on my side) is to someone that's "blank ignored space"... I've simply decided I don't need to see and deal with such a cretin...out of sight, out of mind...I deal with more than enough cretins as it is with no choice....I don't need more when I have choice in matter. I've grown entirely weary of it now.

Such folks as that one and the other half (that likely goes on ignore list soon enough too) of your interaction with "wall-wailing tabby stray" (if you remember earlier post I made heh) have something wrong in the head or life or maybe both to be this out of balance, consumed by this level of hatred and needing the visceral hate to always be the finality...the final word to someone anonymous they know nothing about.

It's simply easy for them here, because its hard to do out there (when people are not anonymous and have a body, mind and soul to confront). They are essentially weaklings angry at what the world is....and the world doesn't tolerate, much less sustain their whining and searing negativity very much compared to here.

Thus they get addicted to it here... a drug den of sorts. There's no real point to giving pages of replies and responses to them (whatever the intent or short term emotional gain/loss), they get a thrill from all that that you see....that's their bread and currency here. I reject their pitiful reckless game all together.

It's all part of the reason I am drastically tamping down my activity in this place as well...might as well come to near zero soon enough. World is already going through a low point this year especially, stuff is fraying more than usual....and I find people are becoming more stir-crazy and on edge more than usual....as bad as society already was becoming getting stuck and isolated away from meaning, purpose and depth.

I now understand online forums and online-scape is very much an antithesis to genuine understanding and socialization....it emboldens all that is wrong in us and erodes all that is right in us...in real life we would topple over from it, but virtually there is no basic counter-force to it....there is no real limit to the indulgence of imbalance.

Thus this waste land, just one of millions, is littered with all the zombie husks and shells of once-better men....or (more sadly) boys trying to be men. I do hope and pray one day they can and will change, improve and restore themselves....for their own sake, whatever it may take....I cant imagine what its like to be stuck that way for a whole life. Tolkien did have that as a disturbing side-hypothesis, the orcs were once originally elves....till a great monstrous corruption did them in.

The answer I feel is more people to simply reject this decline all together.... and make something of themselves honest and positive, and re-connect to greater source and greater destination.

After all how great is this world, this planet that shoulders this burden, her children that we are, we who clamour and impose more on her with time? She isn't appreciated enough, we in our fickle ego and personal ambition forget about Mother Earth and Father Time all too much.

I for one can't wait to go out to immerse in nature once again soon, nothing nourishes a soul quite like it I find....human ego, human ambition, human reality even human existence...all the good and bad of it.... all completely and rightfully diminished to the tiniest molecule when you out there among the forests and lakes of Canada staring at the sunset and then milky way with maybe one loving companion to share it. Almost every story of every constellation I know quite well....point out fuzzy andromeda galaxy, the furthest thing you can see with your naked eye....and re-tell the story of how brave perseus rescued her...and there he is "Winking" not too far away.

Recently I was in for a very nice surprise on this kind of matter when I found Vedder's "Hard Sun" song was not an original but a cover of a Canadian singer's (Indio) work....and added bonus is the collab with Joni mitchell (backing vocals) and L Subramaniam (violin)...two artists I admire greatly... I had no idea before were in something together. The "her" of course refers ultimately to our grand planet:

Life should have such pleasant surprises, something I wish both on friend and foe that share this reality with me...they after all do temper the rough edges....in the hope there need not be foes at all one day.

When rough edges cannot be tempered, you have found a place not worth frequenting. My 2 cents.

@Joe Shearer @T-123456 @jbgt90 @Vergennes @KAL-EL @scorpionx @VCheng @jamahir @Chhatrapati @RAMPAGE

If all the life’s worth and definition is 10101011 to a person and they consider anything more of the fame, the likes and the adulation here to be anymore than the representative bits on some server sitting a basement; the truly they aren’t worth the time.

Frankly, the original purpose of this forum and many others that started out back in the early 2kS has been lost. We joined to learn, gain knowledge - to exchange ideas. Unfortunately, much like the rest of the world above it through globalism.. the exchange of ideas became an exchange of fire over ideas.

Eventually, the knowledge disappeared from the forums and only ammunition remains.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Friend, there are people here its not worth interacting with one bit. Half of this convo you are having (on my side) is to someone that's "blank ignored space"... I've simply decided I don't need to see and deal with such a cretin...out of sight, out of mind...I deal with more than enough cretins as it is with no choice....I don't need more when I have choice in matter. I've grown entirely weary of it now.

Such folks as that one and the other half (that likely goes on ignore list soon enough too) of your interaction with "wall-wailing tabby stray" (if you remember earlier post I made heh) have something wrong in the head or life or maybe both to be this out of balance, consumed by this level of hatred and needing the visceral hate to always be the finality...the final word to someone anonymous they know nothing about.

It's simply easy for them here, because its hard to do out there (when people are not anonymous and have a body, mind and soul to confront). They are essentially weaklings angry at what the world is....and the world doesn't tolerate, much less sustain their whining and searing negativity very much compared to here.

Thus they get addicted to it here... a drug den of sorts. There's no real point to giving pages of replies and responses to them (whatever the intent or short term emotional gain/loss), they get a thrill from all that that you see....that's their bread and currency here. I reject their pitiful reckless game all together.

It's all part of the reason I am drastically tamping down my activity in this place as well...might as well come to near zero soon enough. World is already going through a low point this year especially, stuff is fraying more than usual....and I find people are becoming more stir-crazy and on edge more than usual....as bad as society already was becoming getting stuck and isolated away from meaning, purpose and depth.

I now understand online forums and online-scape is very much an antithesis to genuine understanding and socialization....it emboldens all that is wrong in us and erodes all that is right in us...in real life we would topple over from it, but virtually there is no basic counter-force to it....there is no real limit to the indulgence of imbalance.

Thus this waste land, just one of millions, is littered with all the zombie husks and shells of once-better men....or (more sadly) boys trying to be men. I do hope and pray one day they can and will change, improve and restore themselves....for their own sake, whatever it may take....I cant imagine what its like to be stuck that way for a whole life. Tolkien did have that as a disturbing side-hypothesis, the orcs were once originally elves....till a great monstrous corruption did them in.

The answer I feel is more people to simply reject this decline all together.... and make something of themselves honest and positive, and re-connect to greater source and greater destination.

After all how great is this world, this planet that shoulders this burden, her children that we are, we who clamour and impose more on her with time? She isn't appreciated enough, we in our fickle ego and personal ambition forget about Mother Earth and Father Time all too much.

I for one can't wait to go out to immerse in nature once again soon, nothing nourishes a soul quite like it I find....human ego, human ambition, human reality even human existence...all the good and bad of it.... all completely and rightfully diminished to the tiniest molecule when you out there among the forests and lakes of Canada staring at the sunset and then milky way with maybe one loving companion to share it. Almost every story of every constellation I know quite well....point out fuzzy andromeda galaxy, the furthest thing you can see with your naked eye....and re-tell the story of how brave perseus rescued her...and there he is "Winking" not too far away.

Recently I was in for a very nice surprise on this kind of matter when I found Vedder's "Hard Sun" song was not an original but a cover of a Canadian singer's (Indio) work....and added bonus is the collab with Joni mitchell (backing vocals) and L Subramaniam (violin)...two artists I admire greatly... I had no idea before were in something together. The "her" of course refers ultimately to our grand planet:

Life should have such pleasant surprises, something I wish both on friend and foe that share this reality with me...they after all do temper the rough edges....in the hope there need not be foes at all one day.

When rough edges cannot be tempered, you have found a place not worth frequenting. My 2 cents.

@Joe Shearer @T-123456 @jbgt90 @Vergennes @KAL-EL @scorpionx @VCheng @jamahir @Chhatrapati @RAMPAGE

Agree with your sentiment. And can confirm Tolkien’s Orcs were Elves, they were taken by Melkor to Utumno where they tortured and bred in mockery to become orcs. It makes one wonder what manner of maltreatment was visited upon our lot to make them so hostile.

I do believe however that there are enough reasonably behaved posters and very knowledgeable members on this forum, including subject matter experts in their own areas, I come back to read their posts daily whether or not I have time for them the rest. Some of these members will have noticed that they tend to get a lot of likes and ratings for me, if this puzzles them, the reason is simple... I look up forum lists for new and interesting stories, but never any insightful debates. But these members, I’ll look through all their recent posts, since I know that I learn something new from them every few posts of theirs. Massive kudos to them for making the forum viable even with all its problems.

Also, nice find on hard sun, truly I had been listening to Eddie Vedder’s version only believing it an original all these years.

 

[PanzerKiel]

Another thing - von Clausewitz is one of the most quoted and least read authors of all time.

His ON WAR....