At least 1000 PAK FA fighters will be manufactured until 2050

[faithfulguy]

Yes Pak-Fa is a Russian only project , but they cannot sell it to whoever they chooses ....they were able to finish the First Prototype only with a massive Indian Loan , and its tacitly understood the Plane shall be marketed only to countries mutually acceptable to both. ..

Is this your own personal understanding or an official agreement. Tacitly could mean something created by Indian media without any credibility. Or I might be wrong. Can you elaborate on that point. Thanks

 

[aimarraul]

i don't think china will ever buy russian fighter again,however two countries can exchange some 5th gen technology to make PAKFA and J20 J19 more competitive agaisnt F-22

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

Is this your own personal understanding or an official agreement. Tacitly could mean something created by Indian media without any credibility. Or I might be wrong. Can you elaborate on that point. Thanks

The agreement was as per official government press reports . Perhaps 'Tacitly' was the wrong word to be used .The agreement was a blanket -agreement covering the development of the T-50 first prototype from its funding , to the later addition of critical technologies by HAL to the developed twin seat version of the Stealth jet ( FGFA) . It wasn't separate.

heres the link of the official statements released :

Perspective Multi-role Fighter (PMF) - a knol by Vijainder K Thakur

Also I cant find the link but the fighter program was first mentioned by a Russian official in India to the then Defense establishment because they were lacking funding ( The program was not supposed to even exist according to official sources). With India releasing an initial funding of some billions and following up with subsequent payments , they were able to complete the T-50 and successfully carry-out first flight.


The only way in which Russia can co-operate with a hostile country in a stealth fighter program is as design advisors , technical advisors etc from KNAAPO design bureau . Only in advisory roles , which they have already done in case of the J 20 program . Let alone selling the jet , even sharing of the already developed critical technology in the T-50 finished prototype cannot be shared without Indian approval.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

i don't think china will ever buy russian fighter again,however two countries can exchange some 5th gen technology to make PAKFA and J20 J19 more competitive agaisnt F-22

They wont be sold to China but they wont need to buy either. According to info ( since the Chinese military is notoriously secretive and the only stats available is based on conjecture by western design analysts ) the Chinese design is a stealthier one than PAK -FA .

 

[aimarraul]

They wont be sold to China but they wont need to buy either. According to info ( since the Chinese military is notoriously secretive and the only stats available is based on conjecture by western design analysts ) the Chinese design is a stealthier one than PAK -FA .

we can't be sure of that,SAC and Sukhoi always have a very good relationship,maybe their J19 could use some help from russian partner

 

[DrSomnath999]

Better than Ctrl +Alt + Del to reset the price negociation to rip Indian off again as the aircraft carrier, you India have no choice than bend your knees again. All the top sensitive design work is done by Russia...you get nothing out of it beside some ToT of what lelf over that Russia don't want to do..that India is all proud off

for ur kind information indian version of FFGA is going to be more advanced than Russian due to integration of European & israeli weapons plat form.Well russians have been doing price hike in their defence items not only with india but all it's foreign customers so what so ominous in it

If China Ctrl C +Ctrl V PAk FA..we then can offer that to our all weather friend...it's not bad Idea indeed

1st of all mass produce ur WS 10 engine for j10 ,then think about selling j20 for ur all weather friend.

 

[Urbanized Greyhound]

we can't be sure of that,SAC and Sukhoi always have a very good relationship,maybe their J19 could use some help from russian partner

Yes i've read that both SAC and CAC hire Russian designers and technical people in large numbers . Most probably J19 or the other programs will use Russian expertise but only as much as is strictly required . Chinese are increasingly self reliant in several key technologies , its doubtful they would require more than technical help.

However its also unlikely that the details of any program which Russia begins as a joint-venture or with the financial backing of any other party ( and in this day and age --India is basically the only country which Russia has any sort of arrangement of co-development or large scale customization based on specific needs ...all other countries are merely buyers eg Vietnam , Malaysia , African countries , etc ) will be shared or the final products sold to hostile ( perceived) parties.

Russia being cash- starved and in dire need of funding cannot afford to lose any valuable developmental contract and most definitely not when India is involved.

 

[DrSomnath999]

wait hal will maintain them (per mig-21 ki trah na ker dena )joke ........

dont worry yaar HAL would not make it flying coffin ,,YA pak fa would be helpful for making coffins for those ,where india would do surgical strikes

 

[mitth]

See source and facts.........

 

[DrSomnath999]

See source and facts.........

for what ?

 

[mitth]

for what ?

No only facts.....

 

[Windjammer]

ZHUKOVSKY, RUSSIA ~ There was major embarrassment for Sukhoi Corporation at the recently concluded 10th International Aviation and Space Salon MAKS 2011 air show. The starboard engine of the Russian fifth generation fighter, called the PAK-FA/T-50 (Perspective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) flamed out, forcing the pilot to abort the flight, in front of about 200,000 visitors. The incident took place on 17 August at the Ramenskoye airfield, Zhukovsky, Russia. Also present was the top brass of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the Indian partner in an arrangement that is the most expensive Indian defence deal till date.

The Russian PAK-FA, also called T-50 prototype, is a twin-engine, single-seat stealth fighter and has a range of 5,500 km. It is designed to compete with the F-22 Raptor of the US, so far the only world’s fifth-generation fighter, and the F-35 Lightning II, now under production.

The Indian version will come up for flight certification after 2,500 hours of flying, to be completed in 25 months—which would be around the first half of 2013. The initial contract was for $11 billion, signed between India and Russia in December 2010 in Delhi. Equally divided between both countries, it included the cost of flight testing, infrastructure and design and development over 10 years. Each aircraft would cost $100 million, taking the deal value to $30 billion.

The Indian and Russian versions of the aircraft will be similar. The Indian FGFA will also have an AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar.

The accident may not impact the New Delhi-Moscow joint venture, but the message was clear. It highlighted the concerns of the Russian Air Force, which wants a more advanced engine for this aircraft, currently flying with an upgraded Sukhoi-30 engine.

HAL Chairman Ashok Nayak says, “Right now the PAK-FA is flying with an upgraded Sukhoi-30 engine, and it is likely to have its own new engine by 2018. The detailed design contract of the Indo-Russian FGFA (fifth generation fighter aircraft) programme will be concluded soon. The initial contract came into effect in February 2011, and would take 18 months. The Indian version would be a twin-seater, unlike the Russian one, but would have the basic design frame of the T-50. Certain equipment specific to the IAF’s requirements will be fitted onboard.”

According to the Sukhoi Director General Mikhail Pogosyan, the two flying prototypes do not carry a complete set of avionics and systems, like the radar suite. The third operable prototype, likely to fly by this year end, will have the radar suite, and the firing tests will begin early next year. Serial production of the PAK-FA, intended to replace the Russian Air Force’s Su-27 fighters, is expected to begin after 2016, after the completion of tests. The initial order is for 50 aircraft.

The third prototype will have the Tikhomirov’s NIIP radar suite, which will include the AESA unveiled at the MAKS-2009 show. Sukhoi officials claim that the PAK-FA’s radar signature will be similar to that of the American F-22A Raptor—the fifth generation fighter that everyone is chasing. Doubts were expressed about the absorption of the electromagnetic waves’ coatings on the airframe of the second prototype of the T-50.

The T-50 prototype is named after its trapezoid shape, and is likely to be called a Su-50 after its induction. Its current power plant is the Item 117 engine, made by NPO Saturn. But this is a temporary solution. While NPO and MMPP Salut are competing to win the engine contract, it’s still not clear if the Russian defence ministry will release funds for developing a better engine or continue with the current cheaper alternative.

The Chinese fifth generation, J-20, has already made two test flights, and hopes to go into production by 2017, while the Indian FGFA is expected to make its first flight in 2017, most likely with an existing Sukhoi engine. The Russian PAK-FA has uncertainties over its power-plant, and hopes to go into production with the existing upgraded Sukhoi engine, while a new engine would enter testing phase only in 2018, pushing the programme further back. This explains the Indian FGFA’s likely delay.

Fifth Generation Flame-out | OPEN Magazine

 

[DarK-LorD]

^You are late.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

ZHUKOVSKY, RUSSIA ~ There was major embarrassment for Sukhoi Corporation at the recently concluded 10th International Aviation and Space Salon MAKS 2011 air show. The starboard engine of the Russian fifth generation fighter, called the PAK-FA/T-50 (Perspective Airborne Complex of Frontline Aviation) flamed out, forcing the pilot to abort the flight, in front of about 200,000 visitors. The incident took place on 17 August at the Ramenskoye airfield, Zhukovsky, Russia. Also present was the top brass of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), the Indian partner in an arrangement that is the most expensive Indian defence deal till date.

The Russian PAK-FA, also called T-50 prototype, is a twin-engine, single-seat stealth fighter and has a range of 5,500 km. It is designed to compete with the F-22 Raptor of the US, so far the only world’s fifth-generation fighter, and the F-35 Lightning II, now under production.

The Indian version will come up for flight certification after 2,500 hours of flying, to be completed in 25 months—which would be around the first half of 2013. The initial contract was for $11 billion, signed between India and Russia in December 2010 in Delhi. Equally divided between both countries, it included the cost of flight testing, infrastructure and design and development over 10 years. Each aircraft would cost $100 million, taking the deal value to $30 billion.

The Indian and Russian versions of the aircraft will be similar. The Indian FGFA will also have an AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar.

The accident may not impact the New Delhi-Moscow joint venture, but the message was clear. It highlighted the concerns of the Russian Air Force, which wants a more advanced engine for this aircraft, currently flying with an upgraded Sukhoi-30 engine.

HAL Chairman Ashok Nayak says, “Right now the PAK-FA is flying with an upgraded Sukhoi-30 engine, and it is likely to have its own new engine by 2018. The detailed design contract of the Indo-Russian FGFA (fifth generation fighter aircraft) programme will be concluded soon. The initial contract came into effect in February 2011, and would take 18 months. The Indian version would be a twin-seater, unlike the Russian one, but would have the basic design frame of the T-50. Certain equipment specific to the IAF’s requirements will be fitted onboard.”

According to the Sukhoi Director General Mikhail Pogosyan, the two flying prototypes do not carry a complete set of avionics and systems, like the radar suite. The third operable prototype, likely to fly by this year end, will have the radar suite, and the firing tests will begin early next year. Serial production of the PAK-FA, intended to replace the Russian Air Force’s Su-27 fighters, is expected to begin after 2016, after the completion of tests. The initial order is for 50 aircraft.

The third prototype will have the Tikhomirov’s NIIP radar suite, which will include the AESA unveiled at the MAKS-2009 show. Sukhoi officials claim that the PAK-FA’s radar signature will be similar to that of the American F-22A Raptor—the fifth generation fighter that everyone is chasing. Doubts were expressed about the absorption of the electromagnetic waves’ coatings on the airframe of the second prototype of the T-50.

The T-50 prototype is named after its trapezoid shape, and is likely to be called a Su-50 after its induction. Its current power plant is the Item 117 engine, made by NPO Saturn. But this is a temporary solution. While NPO and MMPP Salut are competing to win the engine contract, it’s still not clear if the Russian defence ministry will release funds for developing a better engine or continue with the current cheaper alternative.

The Chinese fifth generation, J-20, has already made two test flights, and hopes to go into production by 2017, while the Indian FGFA is expected to make its first flight in 2017, most likely with an existing Sukhoi engine. The Russian PAK-FA has uncertainties over its power-plant, and hopes to go into production with the existing upgraded Sukhoi engine, while a new engine would enter testing phase only in 2018, pushing the programme further back. This explains the Indian FGFA’s likely delay.

Fifth Generation Flame-out | OPEN Magazine

So what is the point yo are trying to make? Su 27s and MiG 29s have crashed in air shows....and the J 10B still uses a AL 31 and JF 17 uses a D 93. And your point is?

 

[aimarraul]

Yes i've read that both SAC and CAC hire Russian designers and technical people in large numbers . Most probably J19 or the other programs will use Russian expertise but only as much as is strictly required . Chinese are increasingly self reliant in several key technologies , its doubtful they would require more than technical help.

that's what i am talking about ,the direct technology cooperation btw SAC and Sukhoi ( maybe a backstage deal......).U.S , Europe,Australia they all hired lots of soviet engineers after soviet collapsed,but none of these countries will cooperate with russia on military program

However its also unlikely that the details of any program which Russia begins as a joint-venture or with the financial backing of any other party ( and in this day and age --India is basically the only country which Russia has any sort of arrangement of co-development or large scale customization based on specific needs ...all other countries are merely buyers eg Vietnam , Malaysia , African countries , etc ) will be shared or the final products sold to hostile ( perceived) parties.

Russia being cash- starved and in dire need of funding cannot afford to lose any valuable developmental contract and most definitely not when India is involved.

i don't think russia is only one having needs in this relation,they may have fund shortage problem ,but aslo india can't get 5th gen jet from other way, russia is smart enough not to put all eggs in one basket,your country with 1.2billion people will go self reliant sooner or later,it's better for them to start exploiting other markets besides india.