Ashura day rained blood from sky in England + Evidence

[Secur]

I can't imagine why somehow we're perfectly happy with deciding in a democratic manner whether we should choose A, B, C or D Health Insurance Policy for our Citizenry & somehow balk at a 'Nooo....noooo religion is off-limits' when the same democratic principle is applied to the Religion ?

Am I getting it , right ? You want to apply the majority " decision " and " consensus " to religion ? In a manner it is done even today , the result is ?

Now you are playing with our brains now.

There were always strange times in history , Luftwaffe . Please do not start to curse the " century " you are living in , nothing irritates me worse .

 

[Armstrong]

Am I getting it , right ? You want to apply the majority " decision " and " consensus " to religion ? In a manner it is done even today , the result is ?

No I want the democratic principle applied to religion !

Step 1 - Decide whether ABC thing needs to be decided at a Collective Level or not ?

Step 2 - Decide what the Options are available in defining what that ABC thing is ?

Step 3 - Let the Majority Decide what is or what isn't to be Institutionalized !

Step 4 - Repeat as & when needed !

 

[Aamna14]

I wish some day most Muslims start believing the phrase they so frequently utter "the rest Allah knows best". That would surely do wonders.

 

[Secur]

No I want the democratic principle applied to religion !

Step 1 - Decide whether ABC thing needs to be decided at a Collective Level or not ?

Step 2 - Decide what the Options are available in defining what that ABC thing is ?

Step 3 - Let the Majority Decide what is or what isn't to be Institutionalized !

Step 4 - Repeat as & when needed !

Alright , but what made you change your mind ? Why the sudden suggestion for democratic principles to be applied to religion ? You were all for , let every man decide for himself , just a second before .

Accepting your current argument , who will decide it for you what needs to be done in what manner ? The common man or the Mullah or the Moulvi or the Mufti or the Shiekh or the Allama or the Sheikh - ul - Hadith or an Arab or all of the above ? Because , currently there's an unwritten embargo on common man deciding what is right for him in religion , he has no say in religious matters because he's not qualified enough going by the norm , he doesn't have the knowledge despite the Quran saying that its simple . Change the mindset , Armstrong .

 

[Armstrong]

I wish some day most Muslims start believing the phrase they so frequently utter "the rest Allah knows best". That would surely do wonders.

Some people just like to play with our emotions & say that they're leaving only to come back again & again !

 

[Secur]

I wish some day most Muslims start believing the phrase they so frequently utter "the rest Allah knows best". That would surely do wonders.

Miss , unfortunately , even today they say it after making a detailed , inflexible judgement and verdict on a matter . That doesn't do wonders .

 

[Aamna14]

Miss , unfortunately , even today they say it after making a detailed , inflexible judgement and verdict on a matter . That doesn't do wonders .

Did i say anything to the contrary?? Thats exactly what i was implying if you didn't notice earlier.

 

[Sugarcane]

if thats your question then the meteorologists have termed it as unexplained phenomenon.. the red soil trapped in upper atmosphere and then blown away thousands of miles away and suddenly coming down in rain. there was a documentary about such thing in India where red rain happened for some time and scientists originally thought that it was alien form.

I have read about red rains but didn't found anything over red winds, maybe it's related?? - search with urdu key words yield to result of Film "Laal Aandhi" - lol. Anyway - thanks

 

[Secur]

Did i say anything to the contrary?? Thats exactly what i was implying if you didn't notice earlier.

No contest . Then I believe our problem is with taking religion too literally and trying to explain everything when somehow common sense dictates that it isn't wise or even practical ?

 

[Armstrong]

Alright , but what made you change your mind ? Why the sudden suggestion for democratic principles to be applied to religion ? You were all for , let every man decide for himself , just a second before .

I'm still for that !

They're not really mutually exclusive you know !

Accepting your current argument , who will decide it for you what needs to be done in what manner ? The common man or the Mullah or the Moulvi or the Mufti or the Shiekh or the Allama or the Sheikh - ul - Hadith or an Arab or all of the above ? Because , currently there's an unwritten embargo on common man deciding what is right for him in religion , he has no say in religious matters because he's not qualified enough going by the norm , he doesn't have the knowledge despite the Quran saying that its simple . Change the mindset , Armstrong .

Let the common man decide; there is no ecclesiastical order in Islam as far as I'm concerned !

Consider an analogy; take Jurisprudence for one !

Who decides what the Laws are going to be ?

The People - Either through their elected representatives or through a referendum !

If there can be Jurists, Legal Experts, Social Scientists, Economists, Journalists, Finance Professionals, HR Professionals, Social Activists etc. debating about the merits or demerits of their positions & putting this before the People to decide - Why can't we apply this to the Shariah as well when it is, principally so, a legal paradigm just like English Civil Law or the Swiss Civil Code ?

The missing ingredient is Pluralism - Let everyone speak their mind within the bounds that you've decided for yourself as a Society as a whole through the democratic method !

 

[Bombermanx1]

we in the sub continent had the belief that a blood red windy storm followed after the murder of an innocent. I have seen it with my own eyes when I was very young back in the late 70s and it was quickly attributed to a murder of a young at the hands of someone.

there are some natural phenomenons where some can be explain and some cant be explained. people of different faiths attribute them according to their religion.

I tend to play down such coincidences, such bloody rain should have happened in Mecca and Madina or Syria where Yazid was residing, why UK?

names of Allah and Muhammad on the fruit and finding names on stones and clouds and all is all good but lets not take it very seriously otherwise people who have no such affection to a faith or personalities make fun of it.

What do you think about "Imam Mahdi"?

 

[Malik Alashter]

See here you are preaching mine sect is better then yours cut it out. Go read my posts and come back talk to me.

The only Islam is when Prophet Muhammad P.B.UH completed it with his Final sermon. He did not mention so and so into it. But he did say in other places "My Companions are like stars. Whichever of them you use as a guide, you will be rightly guided."

So no i am not into this 14-12-2000 fiasco to me Allah, Quran and Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H is sufficient, nobody else bought anything new or addition to Islam.

"This day have I perfected for you your religion and completed My favor on you and chosen for you Islam as a religion."
- Qur'an 5:3

Yes but every thing you read bro has an explanations. Unfortunately ignorance in the time of the prophet and after he moved to the after life still so dominant!! without we study that period extensively it's hard for us understanding what's going on and how to judge rightly.

 

[Resurrection5782]

@Irfan Baloch :

Irfan Bhai, I'm cognizant of the history that you speak of nor would I imply in any way that Hussein (RA) got what he deserved or what he was asking for; for that would be both callous & despicable beyond measure because this is the Grandson of the Prophet (PBUH) we're talking about after all !

I'm simply curious if there was some better way to go about doing this because the way things turned out neither the Umayyads were stopped nor was the Caliphate prevented from turning into a Hereditary Monarchy !

And I still can't understand why he took his family with him to Karbala & if what you're saying is true that he knew what his end was going to be, I'm even more confused as to why he took his family with him - One does not go to certain death with children as young as a few months old !

@SALMAN AL-FARSI @Malik Alashter and others please answer him his last part question.

He wanted to perish yazeed goverment so wrote a letter to kufah people and send the letter by a messenger.Kuffah people allegiance to him and his messenger who went to kufah wrote a letter to him and told kufah people has allegiance to him against yazeed.He began to go to kufa but when yazeedi governers knew that kufah peple has allegiance to Imam hossein(saa) began to murdering and killing people in kufah and threated them so peple become afraid and broke their covenant with imam hossein.Then governers areested his messenger in kufa.and his messenger despite wanted to write letter to Imam hussein and tell not to come to kufah but could not.Imam hossein begsn his journey to karbala and in middle of the way yazeedi soldiers encircled him and his family and assisants.They wanted him to allegiance to yazeed(lanat o allah alayh)but he did not accept and said death is better than accepting devil.

 

[Secur]

I'm still for that !
They're not really mutually exclusive you know !

Wrong , they are . Start giving the freedom for every man to decide/interpret the religion for himself and follow whatever he wants , that wouldn't be the same as the " majority " deciding what needs to be decided and coming to a consensus . You would be enforcing then .

The missing ingredient is Pluralism - Let everyone speak their mind within the bounds that you've decided for yourself as a Society as a whole through the democratic method !

I told you , my friend , I do not contest what you said . Just " Change the mindset , Armstrong " in the last post .

Why can't we apply this to the Shariah as well when it is, principally so, a legal paradigm just like English Civil Law or the Swiss Civil Code ?

I do not know , because Muslims do not consider them capable of doing so outsourcing all their free and critical thinking skills to the Mullah for him to decide the parameters , the prime cause of their downfall .

 

[Aamna14]

No contest . Then I believe our problem is with taking religion too literally and trying to explain everything when somehow common sense dictates that it isn't wise or even practical ?

No, our problem lies in taking religion too superficially not even at face value so there is no question of even taking it too literally because even if we tried to grasp it literally we wouldn't have reached as low in terms of morality or otherwise as we clearly have. Religion for us is just a matter of personal pride giving ample opportunities for point scoring so the racial and religious slurs we throw at others have nothing to do with any concept of religion rather our own inacceptance of our lack of tolerance and inadequacies.