As a Pakistani, do I have any rights to raise questions on establishment?

[Zibago]

Before I begin, don’t judge my patriotism. Do NOT label me as an anti-army.
First thing, I do NOT have to prove my patriotism to anyone. But I still say it to make few things clear before coming to my questions. I have massive respect for our LEA, especially armed forces. And sheer purpose of this thread is the affection as well as the massive respect for our soldiers.

On borders and locations average Pakistani even haven’t ever heard of are being operated with given so many precious lives of young soldiers of this soil.
It takes time, money, and hardwork with hard training to make a solider. But it takes a moment for the enemies of the soil to take a life.....a life I believe is more important than an average Pakistani.

The death of Maj Ishaq is heartbreaking. Those pictures of his wife are gut-wrenching. We all will forget maj Ishaq until his first death anniversary. But the real burden & loss..... a loss that can NEVER be recovered is the loss of his 1 year old kid & the widow.
Martyrdom of maj Ishaq not only upset me & sadden me today but actually give the birth to anger in my heart. That made me question here.

So on one side we are giving in both the lives and money to secure the soil. But on the other, extremists group like “Thareek e Labbiak” has hijacked the capital city of Pakistan. What message is being delivered? I personally believe, the sacrifices of our shaheed jawans will go in drain.

We all know the exceptional power establishment enjoy in Pakistan. So what is making them stop taking some serious actions against these goons in Islamabad. Establishment’s intention maybe is crystal clear. But taking no step is indirectly supporting their cause.
It is hard for a sane mind to accept that one extremists group is given all the freedom to blockade the capital city without no support from agencies.

I don’t want to bring in Islam here because it will trigger some keyboards jihadists. I will hear a new Fatwa.
But I must state a little story from the life of Rasool Allah saw.

If we can questions politicians, why can’t we question establishment?
Isn’t Pakistan over everything? All the institutions?
Lastly, if establishment is all with “Pakistan first” & stay away from any sort of disturbance. Then I being a Pakistani request to high authorities to please take hard actions against Khadam Rizvi & co. for the betterment of Pakistan. For safe & secure Pakistan. For good economic of Pakistan. For Pakistan.

Thank you.


. Trolls stay away from this thread.
. Serious discussion only.
. “Let’s agree to disagree”
. Don’t derail the thread.

Have a great one all. Thank you.

Simple they want to be attacked the best policy towards them is to tire them out

It is hereby declared that having failed to disclose his un-withdrawn receivables constituting assets from Capital FZE Jebel Ali, UAE in his nomination papers filed for the General Elections held in 2013 in terms of Section 12(2)(f) of the Representation of the People Act, 1976 (ROPA), Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif is not honest in terms of Section 99(f) of ROPA and Article 62(1)(f) of the Constitution of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, 1973 and therefore he is disqualified to be a Member of the Majlis-e-Shoora (Parliament).

Removed for un-withdrawn receivables

So removed for not being corrupt

https://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2017/11/sc-releases-detailed-panamagate-review-judgment/

 

[Spring Onion]

why is it not in Urdu so a common person can understand that?

urdu main kisi ko kon si samjh aa jani thi. adhay say ziyada patwarion ko urdu bhi nahi ati baki non-patwarion ko stamp paper wali urdu waisay hee samjh nahi ati .

 

[El Sidd]

urdu main kisi ko kon si samjh aa jani thi. adhay say ziyada patwarion ko urdu bhi nahi ati baki non-patwarion ko stamp paper wali urdu waisay hee samjh nahi ati .

han to jab qaum esi hai to ye shair or shairy or italian mafia references kion diye gaye hain?
Shaddad Qaroon Nimrod or Firoun kay kion nahi diye?

i absolutely love the verdict. it is of great wisdom and analytical depth.....
but this is Pakistan like this is Sparta...

yahan insaaf ek tanqeed or jurm ek behas bana diya hai mashray ne... pehle apas me firqon me bant rahe the...ab political ideologies pe bant rahe hain... bus koi bhi khilona chaiye awaam ko

 

[Zibago]

one wonders what & who is Establishment

The boogie man

We again have our necks in sand like decade before and we pay a huge price for it from our Jawans to normal public and kids get slaughtered and it was all started from religious fundos, here we again on same sand and our necks in it let’s see how much we more pay for it. Peace brother I know we don’t have solution of it.

The solution is not another operation but a social deradicalization drive that could take decades

Then why attack Nawaz?

Why not to attack a disqualified criminal?
https://www.samaa.tv/pakistan/2017/11/sc-releases-detailed-panamagate-review-judgment/

What is required is a just Pakistan that works for its citizens.

And not for Qatari and Saudi royal families

Yar yeh batao; which periods were the best interms of economy, job creation and internal sufficiency, democracy or Marshal Law?

You cant just call all army periods as pure evil but the fact remains martial laws do more harm than good

 

[VCheng]

If we can questions politicians, why can’t we question establishment?
Isn’t Pakistan over everything? All the institutions?
Lastly, if establishment is all with “Pakistan first” & stay away from any sort of disturbance. Then I being a Pakistani request to high authorities to please take hard actions against Khadam Rizvi & co. for the betterment of Pakistan. For safe & secure Pakistan. For good economic of Pakistan. For Pakistan.

First of all, it is clear that you have been deeply touched by the recent events, and that your heart is in the right place.

Having said that, please keep in mind that policies on a national level must take into account many factors, and they also have consequences that must be managed. Pakistan has made an irreversible decision to forge a religious identity, and one of the consequences is that small groups of the hyper-religious can motivate enough people to create issues for the much larger number of citizens who do not share their views.

Blaming the establishment for lack of action in this case would be too simplistic. This is merely a small consequence that must be endured for the greater goal of pursuing national interests. Maintaining Pakistan as an Islamic Republic has countless other benefits that are far more important than the inconvenience generated by a few.

Lastly, the tussle for power and control between the politicians and the establishment will continue as well, and cause such consequences to linger on and be blown out of proportion simply to manipulate whatever advantages can be created for each side. Safety and security has indeed been improved, and the economy will remain adrift for not much longer as a new set up is created.

Please be patient and all of this will be resolved quite nicely.

 

[newb3e]

Yar yeh batao; which periods were the best interms of economy, job creation and internal sufficiency, democracy or Marshal Law?
If there’s anyone doing something then that the army. Molvy group in Islamabad, PTI prading around the country and NS saying mujy q nikala...

yes economy was better but from zia to mushraf to kayani all army generals have done is nurtured politicians weaponized them and gave them freedom to loot and pillage our country! and these generals stayed behind the scene took their share of loot and acted all pious and patriotic!

in recent times army is responsible for arming MQM who murdered hundereds of thousand of innocent civilians! They allowed zardari and his whore sister to loot and destroy the foundations of this country and who is the evil here! awaam and politicians while these pious generals are all fat and rich!

 

[The Diplomat]

You cant just call all army periods as pure evil but the fact remains martial laws do more harm than good

I’m not for Martial Law as the world views it as negative and therefor less global relationships. I was just pointing out that Martial Law has been economically beneficial and that blaming the establishment is no solution to our problems.

 

[HRK]

Ban on Ahmadi in Army controversy caused by none other than the Damad ji of Nawaz Sharif.

just after that hate speech (if I am not wrong) the very next day some of the members from Ahemdi community were shot dead ...."just a coincident" ....

Give me proof. Nawaz is against this Dharna

plz read again ..... DON'T POST WITHOUT READING & UNDERSTANDING MY POST

 

[Kabira]

Before I begin, don’t judge my patriotism. Do NOT label me as an anti-army.
First thing, I do NOT have to prove my patriotism to anyone. But I still say it to make few things clear before coming to my questions. I have massive respect for our LEA, especially armed forces. And sheer purpose of this thread is the affection as well as the massive respect for our soldiers.

On borders and locations average Pakistani even haven’t ever heard of are being operated with given so many precious lives of young soldiers of this soil.
It takes time, money, and hardwork with hard training to make a solider. But it takes a moment for the enemies of the soil to take a life.....a life I believe is more important than an average Pakistani.

The death of Maj Ishaq is heartbreaking. Those pictures of his wife are gut-wrenching. We all will forget maj Ishaq until his first death anniversary. But the real burden & loss..... a loss that can NEVER be recovered is the loss of his 1 year old kid & the widow.
Martyrdom of maj Ishaq not only upset me & sadden me today but actually give the birth to anger in my heart. That made me question here.

So on one side we are giving in both the lives and money to secure the soil. But on the other, extremists group like “Thareek e Labbiak” has hijacked the capital city of Pakistan. What message is being delivered? I personally believe, the sacrifices of our shaheed jawans will go in drain.

We all know the exceptional power establishment enjoy in Pakistan. So what is making them stop taking some serious actions against these goons in Islamabad. Establishment’s intention maybe is crystal clear. But taking no step is indirectly supporting their cause.
It is hard for a sane mind to accept that one extremists group is given all the freedom to blockade the capital city without no support from agencies.

I don’t want to bring in Islam here because it will trigger some keyboards jihadists. I will hear a new Fatwa.
But I must state a little story from the life of Rasool Allah saw.

If we can questions politicians, why can’t we question establishment?
Isn’t Pakistan over everything? All the institutions?
Lastly, if establishment is all with “Pakistan first” & stay away from any sort of disturbance. Then I being a Pakistani request to high authorities to please take hard actions against Khadam Rizvi & co. for the betterment of Pakistan. For safe & secure Pakistan. For good economic of Pakistan. For Pakistan.

Thank you.


. Trolls stay away from this thread.
. Serious discussion only.
. “Let’s agree to disagree”
. Don’t derail the thread.

Have a great one all. Thank you.

Why you want establishment to get their hands dirty with Rizvi and then week later curse them for doing it? Let them worry about more important things.

Its about time potis stopped looking at establishment to do their bidding. Rizvi is just loud mouth moulvi while PTI is making alliance with Haqqani terrorists.

 

[El Sidd]

Why you want establishment to get their hands dirty with Rizvi and then week later curse them for doing it? Let them worry about more important things.

Its about time potis stopped looking at establishment to do their bidding. Rizvi is just loud mouth moulvi while PTI is making alliance with Haqqani terrorists.

Agaye aap..... Kia rang dia hai

Yr ap politican ban sakte ho agar aap apni ghari 2011 me ulti ghuma lo.

Wese khayal acha hai lol

 

[HAIDER]

In every action govt comes first. A little example, after Swat standoff, Zardari govt called in army for operation clean. Army did its job and in second phase democratically elected govt official suppose to take over and filled the power vacuum, but they never showed up for years and army end up running day to day business. Later frustrated army end up building a garrison in Swat.
If elected govt official do there duty with best honesty, believe it or not army won't be able to walkin to fill the vacuum. And elected govt has all rights to question , if we are discussing " military establishment" . Mostly , our talk show main target is military.

 

[I.R.A]

Give them also some dough and they will start it.

You have the right to live a safe peaceful life and a duty to live others peacefully and safely .... as a law abiding citizen ........... isn't that enough to start something beautiful?

 

[Realistic Change]

Before I begin, don’t judge my patriotism. Do NOT label me as an anti-army.
First thing, I do NOT have to prove my patriotism to anyone. But I still say it to make few things clear before coming to my questions. I have massive respect for our LEA, especially armed forces. And sheer purpose of this thread is the affection as well as the massive respect for our soldiers.

On borders and locations average Pakistani even haven’t ever heard of are being operated with given so many precious lives of young soldiers of this soil.
It takes time, money, and hardwork with hard training to make a solider. But it takes a moment for the enemies of the soil to take a life.....a life I believe is more important than an average Pakistani.

The death of Maj Ishaq is heartbreaking. Those pictures of his wife are gut-wrenching. We all will forget maj Ishaq until his first death anniversary. But the real burden & loss..... a loss that can NEVER be recovered is the loss of his 1 year old kid & the widow.
Martyrdom of maj Ishaq not only upset me & sadden me today but actually give the birth to anger in my heart. That made me question here.

So on one side we are giving in both the lives and money to secure the soil. But on the other, extremists group like “Thareek e Labbiak” has hijacked the capital city of Pakistan. What message is being delivered? I personally believe, the sacrifices of our shaheed jawans will go in drain.

We all know the exceptional power establishment enjoy in Pakistan. So what is making them stop taking some serious actions against these goons in Islamabad. Establishment’s intention maybe is crystal clear. But taking no step is indirectly supporting their cause.
It is hard for a sane mind to accept that one extremists group is given all the freedom to blockade the capital city without no support from agencies.

I don’t want to bring in Islam here because it will trigger some keyboards jihadists. I will hear a new Fatwa.
But I must state a little story from the life of Rasool Allah saw.

If we can questions politicians, why can’t we question establishment?
Isn’t Pakistan over everything? All the institutions?
Lastly, if establishment is all with “Pakistan first” & stay away from any sort of disturbance. Then I being a Pakistani request to high authorities to please take hard actions against Khadam Rizvi & co. for the betterment of Pakistan. For safe & secure Pakistan. For good economic of Pakistan. For Pakistan.

Thank you.


. Trolls stay away from this thread.
. Serious discussion only.
. “Let’s agree to disagree”
. Don’t derail the thread.

Have a great one all. Thank you.

In a nutshell Army can be called by District Administration on it's own as well as on the advice of Political Government.

It's not the job of armed forces to police without requisition/orders of political government. Army can not take action on it's own - the onus of resolving this particular issue lies solely on the political government; which has failed on all fronts in dealing this dharna.

Why this issue is dragging - has many facets to it; and would you be surprised that initially a group within PMLN supported it and now it's own leadership is divided how to resolve this issue - and I am talking about their top leadership. Raja Zafarul Haq and even State Minister for Religious Affairs and even Shahid Khaqan Abbasi are on one side, while Nawaz, Ahsan Iqbal on the opposite end.

Simplistically put; this heat seeking misfired missile has malfunctioned and capitalizing on the blunder of the govt., TeL is upping it's ante to gain political validity - sensing an outside chance it might have in next elections.

 

[Arsalan]

A good managers job is to make sure that factory is run smoothly and efficiently and not start siphoning money from the factory

That i agree with and have NEVER defended anyone involved in corruption. There should be transparent process and all including general, politicians, judges, lawyers and common man should be accounted for. Anyone involved in any such activity SHOULD be punished for it. No argument on this.

and become a land developer while blaming workers for inefficiency and corruption!!!

No, army is NOT blaming us for inefficiency, actually, it is working the other way around. Just take a step back and look what have been happening for past few months at least if not years.

solider to general ki journey ko choro

WHY should i leave that aside? Is it not relevant or true?

ya batow why is army selling land,potato chips, cereal, meat, fertilizer , running petrol pumps etc bangladesh Army ki turhan ice cream bhi baichna shoro kar dain lols!!!

Because our government never have the resources to meet the defense expenditure let alone welfare and all. The money being earned there is not via any illegal process or is it?

The mechanism does prefer people from families with military backgrounds. Just saying, not every general has gone through what you say

Not every general is corrupt eaither!

AND

everyone goes through the same process more of less

So we can question the establishment as long as we keep it private? That's not exactly much freedom, is it? I seriously doubt even the Establishment can stop people from questioning something in private

NO! Not asking to keep it private. Just saying that it should not be for the sake of criticism. I say the same for politicians as well.

 

[Imran Khan]

day and night people rising questions of forces here man its not something haraam