As a Pakistani, do I have any rights to raise questions on establishment?

[truthseer]

Not every general is corrupt eaither!

AND

everyone goes through the same process more of less

NO! Not asking to keep it private. Just saying that it should not be for the sake of criticism. I say the same for politicians as well.

Agreed, man, I said that to him too, just saying that some do have preference given to them. Anyway, still probably the least corrupt institution in this country, with regards to merit

Criticism for the sake of criticism isn't usually done, except by Altaf types

 

[MBT 3000]

majority are muslim and majority support a islamic Pakistan. liberals and seculars are a minority, why should Pakistan be secular when majority are muslim. seculars are seen as traitors because many seculars are on Foreign payroll. Pakistan was made in the name of islam and ideology is the two nation theory.

 

[Arsalan]

Agreed, man, I said that to him too, just saying that some do have preference given to them. Anyway, still probably the least corrupt institution in this country, with regards to merit

Not probably, it most definitely is the least corrupt one but is it good enough? not anymore!!
I wont give it as as excuse of its corruption. Whoever is responsible for any such action should be held accountable. There is no argument about that.

Criticism for the sake of criticism isn't usually done, except by Altaf types

The problem my friend is that the type is increasing. People are doing it not always to score some cheap points or to please someone but even because they think that it makes them sound cool and liberal. People are being misguided. There is a difference between questioning the actions of some people and bashing the institution as a whole just for one of the above given reasons. I am glad that you understand that,

 

[Panther 57]

I mean how shameless a person needs to be use terms like "InshaAllah and Alhamdulillah" for boasting about their corruption and that really saddens me and it really earns the wrath of Allah Almighty. It is haram to use "Bismillah" before committing a crime like theft and it increases the level of viciousness multiple levels and such people are deprived of the ability to repent and seek forgiveness. Exactly that we are witnessing in this case: NS & Co., instead of repenting and submitting himself before the law, have embarked upon the path of rebellion like sore losers.

Do you remember the "Alhamdulillah" by fat 40+ yrs old "kid" Hussain Nawaz while proclaiming his properties in London few days before the Panama leaks? Now that pile of fat has been declared WANTED by the court.

couldn't agree more. In one of my posts above i referred them as Munafiq. Almost all are same.

 

[Neutron]

Before questioning the establishment, question people responsible for the mess. Question corrupt mafia for bad governance. Question people responsible for loot & khsoot. And if you don't have enough intellect & courage then you don't have right to question military or establishment whatever you name it. If you can't prove enough credibility then remember the number you are dialling is busy fixing the system & is not available to answer your stupid question.
Digest this bitter doze for sake of God & Country
#No offence

 

[war&peace]

Explain to me why a secular Pakistan is a bad idea?

Because 97% of Pakistanis are Muslims and it was created in the name of Islam. If there were 97% seculars, it would be okay to have a secular system. Do you understand democracy?

 

[Moonlight]

Hi friends, I'm sorry I can not quote every single of you and state my comments to your replies. So I prefer to reply in one post because almost every post I read is the same with raising few questions regarding my original post.

First thing, not a single time in my post I wished army to take over.
I only asked for the intervention of establishment in this particular matter.

I'm sorry to those delusional minds who even today believe establishment ask for government's approval for taking every single step. Legit it is for this institution to take approval from civil government by so many of the time, it enjoy the exceptional power and take the approval with a little pressure on civil government.
Sometimes, it is need of the time like we are expecting in this case.

Additionally, my question is not army to come in front to deal with this problem. Establishment is powerful enough to sort things out behind the curtains with calling both parties to end this issue with agreeing on 'terms & conditions' for both parties.

Furtherly, so many of respected members ignore the part where I have a serious question that on one side we are giving precious lives to fight this war on terrorism and secure the soil. But on the other, Rizvi & co with similar mindsets have hijacked the whole city...... the capital city.

Lastly, for peace in a country all institutions need to work together. Right?
So I believe the policy of "check & balance" is made for all the institution of a country to keep their eyes open to see if there's any institution not doing its job properly and if not, make them do it. No?

PS: To those who think, my living in any other country other than Pakistan, takes away all the rights of me being a Pakistani and showing my concerns on national affairs,

THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR MAKING ME LAUGH WITH SILLY COMMENTS.

Have a good one all.

 

[Neutron]

@Moonlight I disagree with your argument regarding policy of check & balances for institutions because it is clear you are shooting questions against establishment without questioning the people responsible for bad governance.
You misunderstood my point. I said if people don't have enough intellect & courage (voters , public & good politicans) to ask questions from people responsible for organise corruption & crime then they don't have right to ask from establishment to do something more than beyond the scope of their charter of duty. If you still think it is your right then demand military democracy or technocrat government under military supervision. Because you are expecting from establishment to solve political mess.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Of course you have!!!! But without an effective establishment founded on a daring deep state IMO you'll be degenerated into a BD in no time at all!!!! When the Ottomans lost their Deep State to the proxy traitor scums, 6 centuries of the Jihan Devlet was lost in 6 years!!! Only now that the Deep State is being slowly built from tutelage some tangible changes in Turkey's stances are being observed...

 

[VCheng]

Establishment is powerful enough to sort things out behind the curtains with calling both parties to end this issue with agreeing on 'terms & conditions' for both parties.

Is it legal for the Establishment to meddle in political issues?

 

[YeBeWarned]

Establishment works as a Boggy man in Pakistan .. anything that we don't want to believe or swallow just put it on establishment and be done with it , Journalist take such stories add some Mirch Masala and pass judgement over TV . in reality Establishment is now on its weaker position since Partition . most of those fat belly bureaucrats are busy in filling their tummies .

 

[Divergent]

allow me to put in few facts & then you can connect the dots yourself ----
1) Govt made the mistake of amending the law (out of good will of bad intention), but they did not managed the change properly......
2) Govt failed to stop the protestors at their origin - where the rally initiated - they underestimated it --- blame the poor Intelligence network by Special Branch, SB operators are busy in compiling files on political opponents ......
3) Govt was of view that just like the other rally at D-chowk by the Mullah brigade, this rally will disperse in a day or too......again I blame the poor Intelligence network
4) the protestors reached the spot & have settled in, govt failed to cut the supply line ....the food & confectioneries are still reaching the spot......Mullahs are traveling in & out of the Protest on daily basis....
5) If Govt moves in with a heavy hand, there is going to be bloodshed.....another lal masjid & model town.....mullahs will be filling cases
6) Establishment / Govt has failed to gather support for the Govt by the religious parties & leaders , hence in case of a bloodbath, we can see country falling to further chaos.......
7) IF there is an investigation into the matter & someone senior or a minister is named directly......you will have another mumtaz qadri & another salman taseer at hands ---- rabi ul awal has started .....Mullah will walk with their chests out to get a bullet.......

I think she has a fair point. Let me point out why.

The Armed forces is a powerful institute in Pakistan and has a lot of influence. In previous tenure it’s had notoriety, the fact that soldiers have been sacrificed for the good and greater cause should pressure governmental authorities to ensure that such elements don’t exist which cause instability, otherwise unfortunately the loss is in vain.

Islamabad is a Capital state, which ultimately means all foreign embassies, internal law enforcements, institutes, tourist sites are based there. It holds reputation. The focul chord of the Country is rooted there, if in a City like Islamabad discord is happening right under the noses of establishements - then what hope is there for other Cities?

The Armed forces aren’t expected to intervene however a certain pressure on Government and courts can be pushed to end this clown show. It is disruptive for economical and public flow.

If it takes a ‘Mullah’ to bring this in then get a proper Scholar movement to take them down.

 

[HannibalBarca]

The prophets asked Why to Allah...

A wise man said... "Only the Weak will take a Q as a piercing sword"

 

[Big Tank]

@Moonlight Your questions are valid and you hold every right to question every single institution of this country holding a national identity card.

Since Military is made up of Pakistanis and Pakistanis are part of it. They're not Aliens and can't be totally pure and honest. Although Military is liked due to its role which is largely played by Jawans and Officers not the Generals.

Every General isn't really bad but most of them are spoiled while going through the promotions during their career. That's not due to the crisis but the Imperial culture that's still part of the Army. Which include NCBs, More perks than required, unnecessary family dinners, unnecessary and free of cost services to their children and the list goes on. Please note that my own brothers serves into it and I've closely seen the Military culture. It's still inspired by the Imperial British Army. The kind of live these Senior Military Officers and their Children live. That's what inspires them to breach the code under their so-called Honor and Pride. Since the 50s army intervened into State affairs. During the 80s they empowered initial force of Hadliner Deobandis, famously known as Haq Nawaz Jhangvi whom Zia himself took out of the Prison. Later with the help of ISI, sectarian tensions were caused in Baluchistan upon Zia's orders. Later ISI and IB were made part of this dirty plan to keep Zia in power. At the other side, Zia empowered the liberal faction known as MQM. I disagree with those who call him Religious Extremist. Our religion is extremely soft and an extremist to it will be extremely soft. Not a hypocrite. During the 90s Army formed IJI to counter PPP. In result they empowered Political parties like PMLN, JI, ANP, JUI etc. While we also established great contacts with Osama to get some Arab funding which was confessed by Khalid Khwaja. That's how it works. I totally oppose these greedy politicians but at the same time I hate those Generals who made them. Who empowered them on our head.

in 2015, IK revealed his meeting with Sipah e Sahaba's Ahmed Ludhianvi. Ludhianvi confessed that we come out when establishment wants us to. Cause havoc and get back to our place. Why was Malik Ishaq released by Establishment at first and later killed after a couple of years. This aren't so simple. Every one of them knows whats going on.

 

[HRK]

Establishment is powerful enough to sort things out behind the curtains with calling both parties to end this issue with agreeing on 'terms & conditions' for both parties.

not possible as it will be disastrous to one of the party involve in this controversy.
As far as the demand those Molvy are making are simple & practical Government could (& must) release the report of Inquiry conducted by Raja Zafar ul Haq a member of ruling party .... as the minimum conciliatory step to resolve the issue ... but would they do it ...if not one must think WHY ...??

plz try to understand the excuse government is giving is absurd even for sake of argument if one accept it than how is it possible that a draft typed by a clerk in Law ministry was not read by his superiors ... ?? then the same was forwarded to Law Minister who along with party members & allied political parties passed it without even reading it (the Whole BUNCH).... ??
or that draft was never came from the proper channels of Law Ministry ....??

You here failed to realized the gravity of the situation .... those molvies passed whole of Punjab which is ruled by Shabaz Sharif government why they were not stopped in Punjab ....??

If those mullah were peaceful in Punjab than why the government think they will not remain peaceful at Faizabad ....??

If those Mullah were exercising their DEMOCRATIC right in Punjab by marching towards Islamabad then why that DEMOCRATIC right is no more applicable at Faizabad ...??

Why Interior Minister Ashan Iqbal is repeatedly giving examples of Model Town carnage ....??

From day one the intension of this ruling Sicilian Mafia is to involve Army in this mess created by them with a political purpose of a controlled anarchy which in past they failed to create in their Muje Q Nikala March from Islamabad to Lahore ....