Army Aviation should get fighter planes!

[blain2]

By the way the K-8 Karakorum can be used in a COIN role.
23mm cannon can be fitted in center-line gun-pod.
four hard-points.
max weapons load:943 kg
representative weapons: PL-7 AAM, FFAR pods, bombs.

Yep exactly. But I stick to my point about fixed wing combat assets staying with the Airforce and rotary combat assets to stay with the Army. Closer cooperation with the air force is the key. This will pay dividends in a potential conventional warfare situation as well.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Even though A 10 may have been offered many ayears ago and pakistan rejected them---that was in the past. There is no chance of getting the A 10's at this stage. After the first gulf war, this aircraft proved its worth beyond any doubt---they were put in the bone yard once--then pulled out and refurbished. PAF will have to look elsewhere. USAF is madly in love with its newly REDISCOVERED machine.

 

[umar ali khan]

Yes i think K-8 would do the job with some changes and if our gov is willing and US is willing to sell the A-10's then thats a good idea as well but just incase i think k-8 shall do the tast with some changes very good idea!!

listen.we cannot convert k_8 into A_10 bcz its design and engine does not permit.A_10 has 2 engine .1 is on left and other is on right side to keep balance which is disturb when gun is used but in case of K_8 it will destroy due to vibration.but this idea is good that v have to build aircraft which has capability to defend front line like A_10.we can and should do this for our country with the help of china.

 

[Neo]

Yep exactly. But I stick to my point about fixed wing combat assets staying with the Airforce and rotary combat assets to stay with the Army. Closer cooperation with the air force is the key. This will pay dividends in a potential conventional warfare situation as well.

I agree with Blain, fixed wing asstes should stay with the Air Force. Giving the Army a combat air wing will only create conflicts within national defence.

As far as the Thunderbolt II is concerned its a good but old platform dating from early seventies and it remains to be seen if the excessive ex-USAF fleet is made available for sale or not. Induction will be expensive both in terms of purchase and maintenance, we'd be better off with (heavy) combat choppers from Russia, China, Europe or even RSA.

Just my 2 cts.

 

[echo 1]

listen.we cannot convert k_8 into A_10 bcz its design and engine does not permit.A_10 has 2 engine .1 is on left and other is on right side to keep balance which is disturb when gun is used but in case of K_8 it will destroy due to vibration.but this idea is good that v have to build aircraft which has capability to defend front line like A_10.we can and should do this for our country with the help of china.

Bro you don't have to give the K-8 a big gun to make it an effective close in weapons platform. It can carry 30mm gun pods under its wings and with a few adjustments and upgrades to its avonics it as the ability to make a very effective platform.

 

[blain2]

A better solution for PAF for CI roles is AC-130 Spectre (Spooky) platform. That would be an immense upgrade over the existing Cobra capability. The loiter time, range and firepower available can be put to use as a serious deterrence.

 

[Muradk]

listen.we cannot convert k_8 into A_10 bcz its design and engine does not permit.A_10 has 2 engine .1 is on left and other is on right side to keep balance which is disturb when gun is used but in case of K_8 it will destroy due to vibration.but this idea is good that v have to build aircraft which has capability to defend front line like A_10.we can and should do this for our country with the help of china.

Umar we are not saying that we need to put the gun in K-8 , the gun is 21feet long, most African countiries are using K-8 as fighters , it takes PAF 70 min to change it from a trainer to a fighter. And T-37a are also beeing used as fighters in some countries.
Army is not venturing into this idea of there own fighters because they have a good Air defense Platform.

tell you a funny story we came back from a mission in 71 and one of our
F-86s got damaged by Army gun fire.Guys problem is we need to teach them about planes how they look like there are countless ways to teach them the poor soilder puts a stinger on his shoulder and says
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN and fires it. And that makes him dangerous.

 

[Muradk]

A better solution for PAF for CI roles is AC-130 Spectre (Spooky) platform. That would be an immense upgrade over the existing Cobra capability. The loiter time, range and firepower available can be put to use as a serious deterrence.

Thats was discussed at a very hight level meeting to make them into Gun Ships , but again some factors came in and they dropped the idea.
They are all stationes in Chaklala taking off from there and going for a mission for example when our guys needed air support in Bugthi's case the SSGs action lasted what 30 min, it would takes C130 2 hours to get there. And we cannot afford it right now to have 3 or 4 gun ships at different bases.

 

[EagleEyes]

TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN and fires it. And that makes him dangerous.

Thats f*ed up. They really need to be told.

 

[kidwaibhai]

i thought that the A-5 was a fighter bomber why is the air force using these air crafts to hit these militant hide outs. i think it does have a pretty good cannons. i think the A-5 was only inducted because of its ground attack capability right.

 

[fatman17]

Thats was discussed at a very hight level meeting to make them into Gun Ships , but again some factors came in and they dropped the idea.
They are all stationes in Chaklala taking off from there and going for a mission for example when our guys needed air support in Bugthi's case the SSGs action lasted what 30 min, it would takes C130 2 hours to get there. And we cannot afford it right now to have 3 or 4 gun ships at different bases.

like the A-10 the C-130 Gun-ships will also not be sold to any country. so in summary we are saying:

Fixed wing assets to stay with the PAF - i agree with this as they are the experts. many current options are available for CAS.

Rotary wing assets to stay with the PAA - i also agree but a dedicated upgrade in the capability is needed for COIN operations. Cobras were purchased mainly to beat back any indian tank attack on our eastern border, thus the base at multan.

 

[Neo]

Thats f*ed up. They really need to be told.

lol....

 

[araz]

Thats was discussed at a very hight level meeting to make them into Gun Ships , but again some factors came in and they dropped the idea.
They are all stationes in Chaklala taking off from there and going for a mission for example when our guys needed air support in Bugthi's case the SSGs action lasted what 30 min, it would takes C130 2 hours to get there. And we cannot afford it right now to have 3 or 4 gun ships at different bases.

Murad K
Can you elaborate a bit more on this issue. If there are three regional commands as we have talked about and is presently happenning, wouldnt these commands have their own assetts to use as they want or would scarcity demand a central position with distribution to a command AS AND WHERE NEEDED?
ithink this is an important issue which should be discussed fully. What other options do we have.
Regards
Araz

 

[IceCold]

Guys problem is we need to teach them about planes how they look like there are countless ways to teach them the poor soilder puts a stinger on his shoulder and says
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN and fires it. And that makes him dangerous.

Sir pardon my ignorance here, but isnt there a system that identifes between friendly and foe aircraft, atleast i saw it once on 23rd march so that accidents like this doesnt happen specially in case of surface to air missle.

Also please if you could tell, that does this system also implies to missles such as the anza which is basically a infra red heat seeker missle.

Reagrds

IceCold

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Our friend MuradK gave us a good laugh today. Howsoever ironic it is, these little things tell us how much ground we have to cover.

Anyway----people are missing the most important points about the A 10 here----it is not the 21 foot long gun primarily or the amount of weapons it carrier ( after considering the other options, these two indeed make a big difference ).

First of all, the aircraft can take a lots of hits and still can fly---secondly, the position of the exhaust of its two engines is right on top and ahead of stabilizers as the two engines are just behind the wings, which reduces the heat signature of the exhaust and shields it against anti aircraft fire. Which means heat seekers have a tough time locking on.

You guys should read in detail what this aircraft has to offer. Then you may realize that all other aircrafts that we are discussing here are fall way short of coming even half way close to the "warthog".