Arjun News & Discussions

[vish]

What is this now? some poster said something in some forum is this your basis of argument? I had given you the link of Mr. Ajai Shukla's blog

Ajai himself said this in BR. I'm trying to find his posts, but having a hard time. Give me some time.

Why you do R&D? You do it for making a product right. Why you make a product? To induct it and use it, right. Otherwise simply keep buying from outside.

I'm talking about individual components of tanks. Lessons learnt from Arjun can be used to update our T-90 fleet. Further, R&D efforts can be put herein.

 

[nitesh]

For the zillionth time... the IA is a T-72 type tank force (logistics, doctrine, training, combined operations, finances, etc). Converting it into an Arjun-type tank force is ridiculously expensive.

Hence, Arjun cannot be the backbone of our armored forces even though it is simply a class apart.

So you want to keep yourself content with an inferior product although it can put your men's life in danger?

 

[nitesh]

Ajai himself said this in BR. I'm trying to find his posts, but having a hard time. Give me some time.

Ok find it, but again something said in some forum can't be a part of discussion. But any way try to find it. It will be a news that GSQR is formed by DRDO.

I'm talking about individual components of tanks. Lessons learnt from Arjun can be used to update our T-90 fleet. Further, R&D efforts can be put herein.

Why not do it in arjun? Why put the money in T 90 which will not give any return and further put money to improve it?

 

[p2prada]

For the zillionth time... the IA is a T-72 type tank force (logistics, doctrine, training, combined operations, finances, etc). Converting it into an Arjun-type tank force is ridiculously expensive.

Hence, Arjun cannot be the backbone of our armored forces even though it is simply a class apart.

Exactly what I have been shouting myself hoarse for!!!!!!!!
Arjun costs twice more than the T-90. Maintainance costs are much more than just twice what is spent on T-90.

It is like the difference between F-15 and F-22. Capable but Expensive.

 

[p2prada]

I'm talking about individual components of tanks. Lessons learnt from Arjun can be used to update our T-90 fleet. Further, R&D efforts can be put herein.

Exactly, DRDO wont die if ARJUN is not inducted. The experience can also be used in future tank developments too. Maybe DRDO can come out with a super tank by 2020 which army can induct.

 

[p2prada]

Why not do it in arjun? Why put the money in T 90 which will not give any return and further put money to improve it?

Did you forget that after ToT, 1000 T-90s will be made in India at AVADI.

The workers in avadi can work on arjun or T-90 or not work at all, but they will get paid anyways.

DRDO will get funds for future research anyways.

Did you also forget about the OFFSET clause. We normally have offset clause on everything related to Military purchases.

Let IA budget double or triple. Maybe then they can look for a new class of tanks.

 

[nitesh]

Did you forget that after ToT, 1000 T-90s will be made in India at AVADI.

The workers in avadi can work on arjun or T-90 or not work at all, but they will get paid anyways.

DRDO will get funds for future research anyways.

Did you also forget about the OFFSET clause. We normally have offset clause on everything related to Military purchases.

Let IA budget double or triple. Maybe then they can look for a new class of tanks.

You again started the same thing. Don't you know why the ToT was got hanged up? If that was in contract then why it was delayed? Why you are not able to understand a simple word called START. You have to start some where. If the GSQR is for this class of tank then this tank has been delivered. Don't DGMF know before setting up the GSQR that they have to maintain it also? Useless argument.

 

[Black Stone]

Sorry pal. Arjun is better.

T-90s couldn't scratch ARJUN at point blank range using HEAT shells.
ARJUN does better in the desert too.

It is like the difference between Tiger tank and Sherman during WW2.

T-90s is simply cheaper.

T-90 is Russia's most modern tank. Arjun is India's first made tank and through it's journey contains many problems. The Russians have more experience and technical know how in making tanks than India.

So it is difficult to convince that the Arjun is better. The Arjun might be better in some parameters, but overall, we cannot dismiss the T-90s capability.

 

[Nihat]

...........

India tests indigenous main battle tank

Fits Arjun with Bofors gun

By Aharon Etengoff @ Wednesday, November 05, 2008 10:47 AM




India has successfully tested its first indigenously-developed main battle tank (MBT).

The official Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE) conducted trials of the Arjun and its advanced Bofors gun at Chandipuron, 15km from Balasore.

"The important test was functioning proof of Fin Stabilised Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS) ammunition for Arjun. Today's tests, aimed at demonstration, showed encouraging results in terms of accuracy, acceleration and ballistic performance," explained PXE director Anoop Malhotra.

According to Malhotra, the Arjun weapon system is capable of firing both kinetic energy and chemical energy projectiles. The MBT is also fitted with secondary armaments, including a 12.7mm air defence gun and 7.62mm co-axial machine gun.

"The 130mm gun system of Russian origin is a potent weapon which can fire and destroy targets up to a range of 27.5km. The 105mm Indian field gun is the mainstay of Indian artillery. The FSAPDS ammunition with maximum nuzzle velocity of 1660m/s can defeat an armour target of 450mm thickness at a distance of 2.5km," added Arjun.

Development of the Arjun has reportedly been plagued by a number of glitches, including low accuracy, frequent breakdown of power packs and gun barrel malfunctions. However, the MoD has now granted a green light for the deployment of the Arjun, allowing the fulfillment of an army order for 124 tanks.

As IT Examiner previously reported, the Indian MoD has launched a slew of new defence projects designed to reduce the country's dependence on foreign imports. For example, the DRDO (Defence Research and Development Organisation) is currently developing a new generation of unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) designed to deploy laser target designators (LTDs) deep inside enemy territory.

"We are planning to base LTDs on UAVs to cut down the risk of our troops getting caught inside enemy territory while illuminating targets for attack and save the cost of sending another aircraft for doing the task," explained a senior MoD official.

In addition, the Indian Air Force (IAF) recently tested an upgraded version of the Lakshya drone. The micro-light pilotless target aircraft was fitted with an advanced, digitally-controlled engine and successfully flown from the Integrated Test Range in Balasore. The indigenously-designed Lakshya was developed by the DRDO for the training of gun/missile crews and air defence pilots

 

[ejaz007]

After the order of 1000 T-90's is there any justification left for inducting Arjun. Arjun is not better than T-90 then why should an inferior product be inducted.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

After the order of 1000 T-90's is there any justification left for inducting Arjun. Arjun is not better than T-90 then why should an inferior product be inducted.

Err nope Arjuns are wa better then T90( modified t72's) on any given Sunday. Period. Pove me otherwise.

 

[vish]

So you want to keep yourself content with an inferior product although it can put your men's life in danger?

Yes, if our budget does not allow it.

Just a question... what would you have better tank force (which will give plausible advantages in a plausible full-blown war) or hi-tech modern net-centric helmets for all our military and para-military troops (which will be used across the length and breadth of our country)?

Also, define "inferior" here... plus is it only the quality of the product that matters? What about costs? In case of military equipment, logistics also matter.

 

[nitesh]

Yes, if our budget does not allow it.

Just a question... what would you have better tank force (which will give plausible advantages in a plausible full-blown war) or hi-tech modern net-centric helmets for all our military and para-military troops (which will be used across the length and breadth of our country)?

Also, define "inferior" here... plus is it only the quality of the product that matters? What about costs? In case of military

So then why buy T 90 why go for T 72. When T 55 was there? Oh why go for T 55 when T 34 was there these must be cheaper then T 90. Keep more number of T 34 then buying a limited number of t 90 (i mean why buy only 1657 here rather then buy 5000-6000 T 34). Tell me which will give you advantage?

I am not saying stop using T 90 all I am saying is what is the problem in inducting arjun in some number when you have a force of 3500 tanks. Although it will increase the cost but it will help domestic industry. Why you are not ready to listen to this.

 

[vish]

Ok find it, but again something said in some forum can't be a part of discussion. But any way try to find it. It will be a news that GSQR is formed by DRDO.

Nitesh, I have to apologize here. It seems I was wrong in my assertion.

You can, however, read Ajai's initial views on Arjun:

World Affairs Board - View Single Post - What is Best MBT in Asia?

I was unable to find these posts on BR though.

Why not do it in arjun? Why put the money in T 90 which will not give any return and further put money to improve it?

Because we have a limited budget. Also, won't T-90 come with full ToT? Last I checked, the problems were sorted out...

 

[vish]

So then why buy T 90 why go for T 72. When T 55 was there? Oh why go for T 55 when T 34 was there these must be cheaper then T 90. Keep more number of T 34 then buying a limited number of t 90 (i mean why buy only 1657 here rather then buy 5000-6000 T 34). Tell me which will give you advantage?

I am not saying stop using T 90 all I am saying is what is the problem in inducting arjun in some number when you have a force of 3500 tanks. Although it will increase the cost but it will help domestic industry. Why you are not ready to listen to this.

Go back to my post: when one chooses a system, one looks at multiple factors.

In this case, let us limit ourselves to two: cost and capability.

T-90 satisfies both these parameters; the other tanks you have mentioned do not.