Arjun News & Discussions

[nitesh]

^^ I can't understand what r u trying to say here. Can you please elaborate

 

[p2prada]

^^ I can't understand what r u trying to say here. Can you please elaborate

I meant that the tank is good. But, there are some design features like the gun turret which are still old. Like the rectangular armour for the turret while the M1, LA2 etc have sloped turrets to reduce the damage from hits.

Anyways the tank is a little too late. Very late. This time overrun does not comply with the armies requirements anymore. Which is obvious. DRDO needs to start developing a whole new tank. But, the army has still not given the requirements for a new next generation tank for the DRDO to work on since 2006.

In the end, DRDO is not doing any work. ARJUN has no buyers. And the Army policy makers are sitting on their a**es doin nothing.

As for my line "Now make them immune to depleted uranium shells too."
I am just showing my frustration about DRDO claiming to make a more advanced ARJUN MK2, which will again get the same reception.

Time to build a new tank.

 

[p2prada]

DRDO is only trying to force the tank down the armies throat to cover for the losses incurred during ARJUN's R&D work.

The army is asking for a better tank for the future, which is obvious.

What is the army going to do with a tank with the same capabilities as the T-90, except being bigger and stronger, 20 years down the line. There will be no difference in the technologies.

New generation tanks will have a curved body to prevent laser targeting. More deadly guns with a faster rate of fire. Better armour protection. Will also be lighter due to incorporation of composites. Will be faster too. ARJUN or even ARJUN MK2 will not satisfy these criterias.

 

[nitesh]

See it is easy to blame the R&D establishment. Keep changing the GSQR also hadn't helped the cause. But see the NAVY how they are happy with DRDO work. You need to accept a product and keep modifying it. No need to run for foreign vendors all the time. Army is asking for a better tank. So why they are not able to finalize there requirement? Army wants to have more then 3500 tanks in it's armory. Why not discard some old T 72's and use arjun's indeed? All in all it has became a major farce but the end is nearing. The summer and winter trials are successful now so 12 are getting inducted. Some more orders will be given and work on next version will start.

 

[p2prada]

See it is easy to blame the R&D establishment. Keep changing the GSQR also hadn't helped the cause. But see the NAVY how they are happy with DRDO work. You need to accept a product and keep modifying it. No need to run for foreign vendors all the time. Army is asking for a better tank. So why they are not able to finalize there requirement? Army wants to have more then 3500 tanks in it's armory. Why not discard some old T 72's and use arjun's indeed? All in all it has became a major farce but the end is nearing. The summer and winter trials are successful now so 12 are getting inducted. Some more orders will be given and work on next version will start.

Dont compare the navy to the airforce and the army. The ship building in india is satisfactory enough. The navy is happy only cause the R&D work on the ships take the same time as done in other countries.

The airforce asked for a fighter by 2003. But, they take deliveries in 2015.

The army asked for a tank by 1999. They get it in 2008.

The requirements will obviously change. The R&D departments never completed the products in time.

The army always submit new requirements even to the russians, who always see through it to the end.
For eg: the su-30MKI, will have a new engine, new radar and a new fire control system by 2010. Do u think DRDO can make such a promise to IAF in such a short time. Its impossible. The army and the airforce requirements will always change faster than the navy's.

Secondly, the navy is much more technologically advanced than the PLAN (atleast for now). They also have a concrete road for future aquisitions. The same cannot be said of the army and the airforce.

Why not discard some old T 72's and use arjun's indeed?

There are no "old" T-72s. All T-72s are undergoing the RHINO upgrades which make them as lethal as T-90s.

Plus, the ARJUN is a HMTB, at 58 tons. It is not easy for any army on the planet to just induct heavy tanks and not make changes in operation and logistics. Do u expect the army to change its supply logistics for just a few hundred tanks. It is simply too expensive and utterly useless in peace time.

ARJUN is way better than the T-90. But it is simply too late.

 

[Nihat]

Perhaps DRDO is doing too much at the same time - The missile defense programme , Arjun , LCA etc etc.

It would be much better off taking it one by one and on a priority basis maybe starting with the LCA project and making sure of one squadron posted in the south within the next one year or so.


then take up an all new tank project because no matter their upgrades the Arjun is still outdated.

 

[nitesh]

Dont compare the navy to the airforce and the army. The ship building in india is satisfactory enough. The navy is happy only cause the R&D work on the ships take the same time as done in other countries.

Do you know what is the reason behind that? They don't change the requirement midway.

The airforce asked for a fighter by 2003. But, they take deliveries in 2015.

Please read the post no. 603 in LCA thread. The main reason is change in requirement. You can't hit the moving target. You have to induct a platform and improve on it.

The army asked for a tank by 1999. They get it in 2008.

Just google how many times the GSQR have been changed.

The requirements will obviously change. The R&D departments never completed the products in time.

Then you will forever do the R&D only and never get any product.

The army always submit new requirements even to the russians, who always see through it to the end.

Oh this one is brilliant then why keep DRDO only? Cut the crap now.

For eg: the su-30MKI, will have a new engine, new radar and a new fire control system by 2010. Do u think DRDO can make such a promise to IAF in such a short time. Its impossible. The army and the airforce requirements will always change faster than the navy's.

Why can't this be done with LCA? There is obvious difference between our R&D base and Russians. So again you are saying that DRDO is not required only when senctions are there then you do own work. Like iSRO cryogenic engines. We could not have made our own if there were no sanctions. Heard about param series of computers. Again cut the crap. And please prove your point here. What ever the crap you have said.

Secondly, the navy is much more technologically advanced than the PLAN (atleast for now). They also have a concrete road for future aquisitions. The same cannot be said of the army and the airforce.

You know the reason behind that? Obviously no. DRDO has worked and delivered.

There are no "old" T-72s. All T-72s are undergoing the RHINO upgrades which make them as lethal as T-90s.

Prove your point

Plus, the ARJUN is a HMTB, at 58 tons. It is not easy for any army on the planet to just induct heavy tanks and not make changes in operation and logistics. Do u expect the army to change its supply logistics for just a few hundred tanks. It is simply too expensive and utterly useless in peace time.

Then why army is needed in peace time? Again telling you cut the crap.

ARJUN is way better than the T-90. But it is simply too late.

You have to accept the product and keep improving it.

 

[nitesh]

Perhaps DRDO is doing too much at the same time - The missile defense programme , Arjun , LCA etc etc.

It would be much better off taking it one by one and on a priority basis maybe starting with the LCA project and making sure of one squadron posted in the south within the next one year or so.


then take up an all new tank project because no matter their upgrades the Arjun is still outdated.

So work only in one thing this is another brilliance shown. Arjunis outdated? How prove it.

 

[p2prada]

Perhaps DRDO is doing too much at the same time - The missile defense programme , Arjun , LCA etc etc.

DRDO is not doing too much dude. They can easily handle this much and more. There was a report a year ago which said that DRDO is working on 400+ products.

then take up an all new tank project because no matter their upgrades the Arjun is still outdated.

ARJUN is a good tank and as much or even more advanced than the T-90. But, its a late product.

 

[Nihat]

So work only in one thing this is another brilliance shown. Arjunis outdated? How prove it.

Indian Army to freeze Arjun MBT orders at 124 news
07 July 2008

New Delhi: Bringing a long festering internal debate back into public focus, the Indian Army has now said that it would not increase the size of its orders for the Arjun Main Battle Tank. It has placed an order for 124 of these indigenously developed tanks with the Heavy Vehicles Factory, Avadi. According to the Army's director general (mechanised forces) Lt Gen Dalip Bharadwaj,is because Army is now looking 20 years ahead and wants a futuristic MBT." "Army will no more place orders for Arjun beyond 124 that was already contracted. That

Lt Gen Bharadwaj was speaking on the sidelines of an interactive session with defence private industry at CII here. According to Gen Bharadwaj, "Arjun is a contemporary tank and may be used in the next decade or so, but not for a technologically advanced, next generation warfare some two decades hence."

The Arjun debate has become increasingly confusing, and bitter, as various parties involved, such as the DRDO (developing agency), Indian Army (end user) and even the ministry of defence, which has over all responsibility for all matters related to defence, have hurled charges and counter charges at each other.

While reports keep emerging about the Arjun being a 'dud,' equally emphatic statements challenging such assertions also emerge – in the recent past, quite surprisingly, from within the confines of the ministry of defence itself.

In a nutshell, while the votaries for the Arjun tank claim that this is a thoroughly updated, and lethal, weapons platform which sports all contemporary features, its critics trundle out oft-heard complaints of shoddy quality and outdated features. What is indeed certain is that the Indian Army is yet to carry out the promised comparative trials of the Arjun MBT with contemporary systems already inducted for service, such as the T-72 and the T-90S MBTs. Such a 'shoot-out' would indeed have provided a lot of answers to old questions.

The Army has already increased its orders for Russian T-90S tanks by another 330 units, which it ordered last year, over and above the 1000 it already has on order.

Meanwhile, Gen Bharadwaj also announced that the Army, along with CII, would organize a two-day international technology seminar on Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) and Future Infantry Combat Vehicle (FICV) here on 22 and 23 July to discuss global challenges in designing, developing and producing FMBT and FICV.

Gen Bhardwaj said the seminar would debate the kind of MBT the Army needed, considering that might of the military was judged by both deterrent and offensive capabilities of mechanized forces and on the quality and quantity of equipment.

"Time has come to reassess our requirements. We are at the threshold of formulating qualitative requirements of FMBT and FICV. This is the future, as it takes about a decade for completing the process of designing and being ready with a prototype of FMBT and FICV. It could take another 5 to 10 years to finally induct futuristic MBTs and ICVs into the forces," he said.

The meeting would also provide defence planners, end-users, scientists and both private and public defence manufacturers a holistic view of applicability of tanks, be they heavy, medium or light, and wheeled or tracked vehicles in modern warfare.

"Considering India's expanding strategic reach and widening global standing as a military power, future armored vehicles should be capable of performing roles during out-of-area contingencies beyond its territorial boundaries," Bharadwaj said.

The meet would also try to provide defence industry an insight into the aspirations of the mechanized forces and try to gauge their capability to meet Army's future requirements.

Apart from looking at varying global perceptions on use of armored vehicles, the seminar would identify critical emerging technologies in the field to meet Army's requirements of FMBT and FICV. Already, seven foreign countries have confirmed their participation in the seminar including US, Israel, Russia, Germany, UK and France.

It's a slightly old article but relavent none the less , maybe it's not outdated as I put it but whats for sure is that it is definatly behind it's time and the Army limiting it's order definatly shows that DRDO stalled this an awful lot.

 

[p2prada]

Do you know what is the reason behind that? They don't change the requirement midway.

It doesn' matter. The russians always show a tested product.

Please read the post no. 603 in LCA thread. The main reason is change in requirement. You can't hit the moving target. You have to induct a platform and improve on it.

The article doesnot post information about any change in requirement. The program director keeps saying that all criteria in the ASR have not yet been fully mastered.
500-600 more flights are still required to validate 3000 more test points. It means the LCA is still not a full fledged fighter. Do u expect the IAF to induct a fighter which only has a 20 degrees AOA. Far from it, no engine either.

All of IAF change in requirements are based on avionics. The plane has to fly first for the changes to take effect.

The program director keeps saying that ASR has not been fully met.

The russians, US etc are providing fully tested aircraft with state of the art avionics. Its not like the IAF has no other options except the LCA. The IAF will obviously expect the LCA to be as good as a F-16 or a Mig-35.

The IAF are customers. They are not going to feel pity for DRDO and buy substandard aircraft. Will you buy a Maruti 800 instead of the NANO to protect Maruti.

Stop trying to protect DRDO out of pity for their "hard work." They still need to catch up to the world to offer military products to the Indian armed forces. They need to provide products that are on par or superior to US, Israeli and russian products. Then DRDO is IN.

Just google how many times the GSQR have been changed.

But, have DRDO been able to deliver with the changed requirements. It is only an EXCUSE by DRDO.

Then you will forever do the R&D only and never get any product.

Do you know Lockheed Martin spent billions on their product and they were rejected for Boeing's YF-22. Do u see American public cry foul over rejecting Lockheed?
Do u see the russian public crying foul for rejecting the Mig and going with Sukhoi for their FGFA?

Oh this one is brilliant then why keep DRDO only? Cut the crap now.

Did I say DRDO is not required. They are required But they cannot deliver. They have to try harder. Make more products, even if the services does not choose them. Sell products that appeal to the services and work on others that are rejected. Why do u think India has no R&D industry. It is because R&D investments have no returns. There are no profits. And more importantly, Indian R&D cannot compete in the global market. There are always better products out there. All that we have done is participate.

DRDO can handle loss just like ONGC or IOL or any other state owned company. Have DRDO design more fighters and tanks. State of the Art designs that are on par with the rest of the world. Then we can talk.

Look at the russian Mig-35. There are no buyers. So, what did the russians design the OLS and AESA radar for?? What is the use of changing Mig-29's airframe?? It is the harsh reality of R&D. Grow up and get used to it.

Why can't this be done with LCA? There is obvious difference between our R&D base and Russians. So again you are saying that DRDO is not required only when senctions are there then you do own work.

Exactly. Do u want IAF with a "not yet ready" LCA or a fully equipped Su-30MKI. IAF has other suppliers. They will buy from the best.

Like iSRO cryogenic engines. We could not have made our own if there were no sanctions. Heard about param series of computers. Again cut the crap. And please prove your point here. What ever the crap you have said.

ISROs cryogenic engines are still in the lab. Lets talk about them in 2010, when they will be first used.

Param Series. How many do u know that have broken the top 10 list. Building A supercomputer is good. But, building the BEST supercomputer is something else.

Thats what DRDO has done. They built A plane. They built A tank. But, IAF and IA are choosing from the BEST planes and the BEST tanks. Do u want them to buy anything lesser than the best available?

Cryogenic engines and supercomputers are not for sale to India. So, that is a completely different topic.

You know the reason behind that? Obviously no. DRDO has worked and delivered.

They made promises. They made deliveries. So what?
What was accepted from DRDO like Ballistic missiles etc are stuff that the services cannot buy from other places. US and Russia will not offer ballistic missiles.
What is being rejected by the services is stuff that they can buy from other places with much more advanced features. US and Russia are offering some of their best birds and tanks.

Prove your point

Should that be enough.

Then why army is needed in peace time? Again telling you cut the crap.

Stop posting useless questions. Does this relate to R&D or ARJUN.

Do u think we are actually at peace. Look at kashmir, NE, naxals, China, pak, BD, Myanmar etc. Even then, isnt it the sovereign right of any country to field an army. Even Singapore and Iceland.
Our Army is also used for relief work during quakes.

An army is used to prevent hostilities both within and outside a country.

You have to accept the product and keep improving it.

Not if you can get a better product elsewhere and with better improvements.
[You actually sound like a communist with your last line.] Why does the services HAVE to buy products from DRDO? Especially when they are not good enough.

Will you accept it if some baker is trying to stuff your mouth with bread that you dont want. Will you accept it if some door to door salesman is forcing you to buy something you dont want.

So, Why support DRDO stuffing the throats of the services with useless things. Only the communists do that.(read China)

 

[p2prada]

Then why army is needed in peace time? Again telling you cut the crap.

Try to understand the context. Do u know how the TIGER tanks(Germany) came into existence during WW2. These were heavy tanks. They were good. But, they needed significantly more fuel than panzers. They needed large transports. They needed re-training of tank crews. New command and control structure by newly trained technicians under newly promoted brigadiers. They needed to formulate new strategies and novel ideas to use a new tank. They needed more manpower to supply the new tanks. They needed to re-train mechanics and other support crews. They needed new factories to make new shells. They needed HUGE investments to make way for a wholly new weapon. These HUGE investments are only available during war times, not peace times.

Can you tell me that except the US, how many other countries are fielding heavy MBTs and how many are in service in those countries.

UK, France, and Germany. They have defence budgets significantly larger than India and have tanks significantly lesser than india. These 3 countries have only 400 odd heavy MBTs each in their tank inventories.
UK = 386 Challenger II
Germany = 408 Leopard 2
France = 406 Leclerc

Do u expect India to have 3500 smaller tanks and still manage to have 500 ARJUNs on a relatively smaller budget especially during PEACE TIME.

You cant change logistics for the ARJUN today and then make an entirely new doctrine for a new generation tank 10 or 15 years later. No army in the world can face such a sudden change. It is not like the IA can simply buy 500 ARJUNs to keep DRDO happy and the population in high spirits.

Think logically. The IA have no need for ARJUNs. They need a whole new tank. A tank that surpasses T-72, T-90 and ARJUN and can also be called one of the best in the world.

 

[nitesh]

It's a slightly old article but relavent none the less , maybe it's not outdated as I put it but whats for sure is that it is definatly behind it's time and the Army limiting it's order definatly shows that DRDO stalled this an awful lot.

Just google and you will come to know that DGMF is not able to freeze the requirement from 2 years about how the fmbt will be. So except some farce in this fmbt too.

 

[indiapakistanfriendship]

I meant that the tank is good. But, there are some design features like the gun turret which are still old. Like the rectangular armour for the turret while the M1, LA2 etc have sloped turrets to reduce the damage from hits.

P2PRADA kindly read and understand as to why Arjuns Turrent is straight instead of being angular. The composite arrangement in Arjun is such that having strainght armour means less area of exposure to armour and less damage to tiles. However the arrangement in MIA1 and MIA2 is different. This point has been debated to death by senior tankers and it is now well known that straight armour in Arjun is there for a specific reason " the ability to provide best possible armour protection and take hits".

Anyways the tank is a little too late. Very late. This time overrun does not comply with the armies requirements anymore. Which is obvious. DRDO needs to start developing a whole new tank. But, the army has still not given the requirements for a new next generation tank for the DRDO to work on since 2006.

How come late , we are still buying T90's even if we ever went for superior western tanks I don't think the advantage will be very great Vis a Vi Arjun.

In the end, DRDO is not doing any work. ARJUN has no buyers. And the Army policy makers are sitting on their a**es doin nothing

This is total BS, cut the crap . CVRDE has done a yeomen job . Read and read more before you post.

IPF

 

[nitesh]

It doesn' matter. The russians always show a tested product.

Check out how much T 90 was tested and how DRDO had helped in correcting there shooting ability. Now DGMF (I am stopping using the army term because I don't want to mix the common soldiers with the DGMF) wants to have AC in T 90 because the electronics fail in the heat of desert whereas arjun electronics work in heat without the AC.

The article doesnot post information about any change in requirement. The program director keeps saying that all criteria in the ASR have not yet been fully mastered.
500-600 more flights are still required to validate 3000 more test points. It means the LCA is still not a full fledged fighter. Do u expect the IAF to induct a fighter which only has a 20 degrees AOA. Far from it, no engine either.

All of IAF change in requirements are based on avionics. The plane has to fly first for the changes to take effect.

The program director keeps saying that ASR has not been fully met.

The answer for this is just google the things before jumping in to conclusions . You have read the article right what it said was the LCA was a technology demonstrator and now getting a reality so it is not DELAYED as the media is running around. Regarding AoA the IOC is 20 degree and FOC is 22 degree. Check the kaveri program it has achieved a thrust of 83-85KN of afterburner thrust that is the same as the GE engine currently in use but they want 100KN engine. Check this in GTRE site about kaveri. But kaveri is getting used by Navy. So we are going to have our engines for our ships.

The russians, US etc are providing fully tested aircraft with state of the art avionics. Its not like the IAF has no other options except the LCA. The IAF will obviously expect the LCA to be as good as a F-16 or a Mig-35.

Check the history of F 16 A/B models they were famous to be known as widow makers but now they are one of the most feared planes? Do you know a simple reason why? Because forces supported the program.
Hope you are getting the point.

The IAF are customers. They are not going to feel pity for DRDO and buy substandard aircraft. Will you buy a Maruti 800 instead of the NANO to protect Maruti.

Read the response above. And stop BS

Stop trying to protect DRDO out of pity for their "hard work." They still need to catch up to the world to offer military products to the Indian armed forces. They need to provide products that are on par or superior to US, Israeli and russian products. Then DRDO is IN.

This is the worst excuse I have ever heard. Are you out of your mind here.
Then decimate the DRDO why you need it? Again cut the crap.

But, have DRDO been able to deliver with the changed requirements. It is only an EXCUSE by DRDO.

Read the response above.

Do you know Lockheed Martin spent billions on their product and they were rejected for Boeing's YF-22. Do u see American public cry foul over rejecting Lockheed?

Exactly and how much DRDO is spending? Again cut the crap.

Do u see the russian public crying foul for rejecting the Mig and going with Sukhoi for their FGFA?

They have merged there capabilities to make a plane. Check the FGFA history.

Did I say DRDO is not required. They are required But they cannot deliver. They have to try harder. Make more products, even if the services does not choose them. Sell products that appeal to the services and work on others that are rejected. Why do u think India has no R&D industry. It is because R&D investments have no returns. There are no profits. And more importantly, Indian R&D cannot compete in the global market. There are always better products out there. All that we have done is participate.

This clearly shows how arrogant you are. Do you head about pinaka? At what investment it is made? And you know Israel wants to collaborate in that project. Do you know the reason? Do you heard about ALH at what investment it is made? Do you heard about the Ready to eat food that you get in all the shops? It was made by DRDO for the soldiers and now they have given those tech to the companies like MTR and all. And now that revenue is getting used for funding the projects? Do you know about the life saving materials developed for high altitude operations? Do you know the composites used in LCA have a spin off that the people who lost there legs now get a very light legs because of the composites developed for use in LCA has found a way here. Do you know the the computers built for LCA has given birth to the "vikram" processors which are used in our GSLV and PSLV for guidance. And heard about the "Mayavi" EW suite developed for LCA? Check why israel is interest din it. Check the tech focus of DRDO of last 3 months in there site. Check on which stage they are for GaN based electronics.

DRDO can handle loss just like ONGC or IOL or any other state owned company. Have DRDO design more fighters and tanks. State of the Art designs that are on par with the rest of the world. Then we can talk.

Useless troll, check the response above.

Look at the russian Mig-35. There are no buyers. So, what did the russians design the OLS and AESA radar for?? What is the use of changing Mig-29's airframe?? It is the harsh reality of R&D. Grow up and get used to it.

From how many time the MiG29 is around? So what is supposed to be done here. Do you know that the lack heavily in composite technology. just google about our involvement in there FGFA and you will come to know what i am talking about here. Google why Israel is giving orders for composite material from India for use in UAV's.

Exactly. Do u want IAF with a "not yet ready" LCA or a fully equipped Su-30MKI. IAF has other suppliers. They will buy from the best.

Define "The Best" which will be "The Best" forever

ISROs cryogenic engines are still in the lab. Lets talk about them in 2010, when they will be first used.

From where you come across such things?

Param Series. How many do u know that have broken the top 10 list. Building A supercomputer is good. But, building the BEST supercomputer is something else.

What do you want here? You wnat to be US in some time? You know how much funding those organizations get? You arrogant people will just ask for "The Best" then why don't you go and live in "The Best" country f)(* off from here. Useless cribbers

Thats what DRDO has done. They built A plane. They built A tank. But, IAF and IA are choosing from the BEST planes and the BEST tanks. Do u want them to buy anything lesser than the best available?

Do you know that russians have a rule that come what may they will use only russian product? What is the reason behind that? Come what may they will support there industry. But because of BrahMos success they are changing the rule. Now only BrahMos is getting inducted in to there navy. Guess what is the reason?

Cryogenic engines and supercomputers are not for sale to India. So, that is a completely different topic.

They made promises. They made deliveries. So what?
What was accepted from DRDO like Ballistic missiles etc are stuff that the services cannot buy from other places. US and Russia will not offer ballistic missiles.
What is being rejected by the services is stuff that they can buy from other places with much more advanced features. US and Russia are offering some of their best birds and tanks.

Exactly ban the sale of everything and you will see every desi maal getting accepted.

Should that be enough.

I think I replied enough

Stop posting useless questions. Does this relate to R&D or ARJUN.

You stopp questioning about capabilities of professionals and I will stop. what do you think you are who is question the credibility of some scientist?

Do u think we are actually at peace. Look at kashmir, NE, naxals, China, pak, BD, Myanmar etc. Even then, isnt it the sovereign right of any country to field an army. Even Singapore and Iceland.
Our Army is also used for relief work during quakes.

You answered it correctly. We need indigenous capabilities as well. Everything is necessary. And regarding the technology developed founding the way in civilian spaces. I have answered already.

An army is used to prevent hostilities both within and outside a country.

And the technologies developed indigenously gives you the capabilities to use the equipments used by Army without any sections.

Not if you can get a better product elsewhere and with better improvements.
[You actually sound like a communist with your last line.] Why does the services HAVE to buy products from DRDO? Especially when they are not good enough.

Then you are saying there is no need for developing anything right? Comeon show some rationality. Don't behave like an immature kid.

Will you accept it if some baker is trying to stuff your mouth with bread that you dont want. Will you accept it if some door to door salesman is forcing you to buy something you dont want.
So, Why support DRDO stuffing the throats of the services with useless things. Only the communists do that.(read China)

this is pure BS.