Arjun Mark II : An Israeli View [ Must Read ]

[Lord Of Gondor]

So the tank, as developed, as unfit for India's current infrastructure. A product, however good in the reviews, has limited if it doesn't fit the customer's broad needs and capabilities. At the end of the day, it is the Indian army, not Israeli fanboys, who will write the checks.

It almost sounds like the Arjun was developed by tech geeks in a basement without knowledge of the Indian army's real life parameters.

Please read the entire thread,then you will know why it's been inducted in lesser numbers...................

 

[Developereo]

Please read the entire thread,then you will know why it's been inducted in lesser numbers...................

I have seen three reasons:
- Support infra is geared towards Russian hardware
- Corruption
- Arjun is too heavy for most of the roads/bridges in India.

All three were known while Arjun was being designed, so they are not valied excuses.

 

[Skull and Bones]

I have seen three reasons:
- Support infra is geared towards Russian hardware
- Corruption
- Arjun is too heavy for most of the roads/bridges in India.

All three were known while Arjun was being designed, so they are not valied excuses.

As i said before, Arjun was specifically designed keeping Pakistan and dessert terrain in mind, and 300-400 tanks are enough to fulfill that requirement.

 

[KS]

So the tank, as developed, as unfit for India's current infrastructure. A product, however good in the reviews, has limited usefulness if it doesn't fit the customer's broad needs and capabilities. At the end of the day, it is the Indian army, not Israeli fanboys, who will write the checks.

No one denies that Arjun, as a completed product, is significantly delayed - the unavoidable delays when your intent is to design a 100% indigenous tank at your first go. It did not work out and the planners went for foreign sub sytems to cut back on the time and here it is now ready.

Note that Arjun was originally intended to be delivered in the mid 90s and when it was not, only then the Army went for the T-90s in massive numbers because of the turbulent times of the 90s (pak backed insurgency and the threat of war anytime). And because of these further infra was developed for T-90. Again note that the Infra was supposed to be developed for Arjun but because of the delays it was not.

Now since it is completed the Infra for Arjun is fast being laid and once it is completed you will see you cherished dream - Arjun in the hundreds.

And a section of the Army planners dont favour Arjun because they have to allocate additional budget for developing the Infra for Arjun which will eat into their budget for other goodies. Now that the Govt is backing Arjun to the hilt no such concern are there and every Top brass in Army is happy with the product. I need not mention that the Tankers - the final users - were always happy.

It almost sounds like the Arjun was developed by tech geeks in a basement with contemptuous disregard for the Indian army's real life parameters.

Foolish logic I must say. The Infra that was supposed to have been developed for Arjun in the 90s was instead developed for T-90 because of the delays in Arjun and the subsequent induction of T-90 to cover up for Arjun. But since it is now completed the Infra work is in full swing.

Note that it doesn't matter that the infra will be ready in a few years. By that time, tank technology will have moved on and the Arjun will be obsolete; it will be time to look at Arjun 2.

Is it ?? Can you explain a bit how and what of Arjun will make it an 'obsolete tank' ?

And FYKI, the Mk II is ready for trials. Development of Improved Indian Arjun Complete: DRDO - Defense News

Arjun at best can be called a delayed product ; No sane mind will call it a failed product.

 

[ganimi kawa]

I have seen three reasons:
- Support infra is geared towards Russian hardware
- Corruption
- Arjun is too heavy for most of the roads/bridges in India.

All three were known while Arjun was being designed, so they are not valied excuses.

Good analysis!

1. Support infra is indeed oriented with the russian hardware. However, things are changing on the front very rapidly. Within next few years the infra will be able to support the Arjun anywhere in India. Right now it is limited to Punjab and Rajasthan.


Check this out http://www.bemlindia.com/documents/Products/Defence/Eqpt Spec/BFAT Wagon.pdf

BFAT Wagons are specially designed for transportation of main battle tanks viz., Arjun, T-72 / T-
90 and BMP-II.

Also, check this out http://mod.nic.in/samachar/july1-06/h5.htm

At a modest but impressive ceremony, Chief of the Army Staff, Gen JJ Singh flagged off 29 newly manufactured Bogie Flat Arjun Tank (bfat) wagons of Military Rail at Bharat Earth Movers Limited (BEML) in Bangalore. These indigenously developed state-of-the-art carriage wagons manufactured by BEML are out of the 178, ordered by Army. The remaining wagons are expected to roll out in near future.

The induction of these wagons would enable Army transport its heavy equipment and tanks to the destined place within a short time, thereby increasing the combat preparedness of the nation.

2. Corruption has only one answer and that is honesty! We have a honest DM in Mr. Antony and hence the successful resurrection of Arjun!


3. That is wrong. I don't know what gave you that idea!

 

[GORKHALI]

corruption ,corruption its the only story here !bloody babus,generals all are brought by russian arms dealers , i wrote mail to editor of TOI 8MONTHS back with lots of info but reply from TOI EDITOR WAS"ARMY KNOWS BEST ,WHAT IS GOOD FOR THEM

 

[RPK]

‘Desert Ferrari' and more

‘Desert Ferrari' and more


WITH the Army in possession of 100 of the 124 Arjun Mark I Main Battle Tanks it had ordered, the Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment, the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) facility that designed and developed the tank, has good reason to feel proud and prepare with confidence for the greater challenges that lie ahead. The immediate task, though, is the development of the Arjun Mark II tank, which will have a total of 93 upgrades, including 13 major improvements. The Army has placed orders for 124 Arjun Mark II tanks as well, and like the Mark I tanks, these too will roll out of the Heavy Vehicles Factory (HVF), the CVRDE's neighbour at Avadi near Chennai.

The CVRDE's biggest challenge yet will be the development of the Future Main Battle Tank (FMBT) and unmanned ground vehicles (UGVs). “We are in the process of preparing the requirements and specifications for the FMBT. We have launched technology development projects to improve its gun, engine transmission and suspension,” said S. Sundaresh, Chief Controller, Armaments and Combat Engineering, DRDO. The FMBT will have an indigenous 1,500 horsepower engine and it will replace the Army's existing fleet of imported T-72 tanks, renamed Ajeya.

The UGVs will be used for surveillance, mine detection and reconnaissance of areas where nuclear, biological and chemical warfare agents have been used. “We will be launching a big programme on UGVs to meet the Army's requirements. A road map is being worked out in consultation with the Army on their development,” said Sundaresh. The completion of the Arjun Mark I project has brought a sense of accomplishment on the CVRDE's vast shop floors. The project was originally sanctioned in May 1974 at a cost of Rs.15.5 crore and a timeline of 10 years. The deadline and the cost were revised in 1980, 1987 and 2000. The cost at the time of the closure of the project in March 1995 was Rs.305.6 crore.

Five formidable-looking Arjun tanks rolled out of the HVF premises on August 7, 2004, marking the culmination of a 30-year saga of struggle that battled technology denial regimes, the Army's constantly varying requirements, difficulties in organising field evaluations, increase in number of prototypes, and so on. On that day, M. Natarajan, then Chief Controller (Armament and Combat Engineering), DRDO and formerly CVRDE Director, who had been associated with the Arjun project from the beginning, said, “Weapons of this kind take a generation to build.… When the Army wanted us to design a tank comparable with those in the United States, Germany and France, we took it up as a challenge. We had little experience then.…” ( Frontline, August 27, 2004). Natarajan later went on to become Scientific Adviser to the Defence Minister and DRDO Director-General.

P. Sivakumar, Director, CVRDE, narrated the Arjun saga. A few tanks were delivered to the Army's 43rd Regiment for trials. Five phases of these trials were held at Pokhran and Mahajan in Rajasthan in winter, when the temperature plummets to 5° Celsius, and in summer, when the mercury sizzles at more than 45° C, and on different kinds of terrain. The Army was keen that Arjun should be able to ford waterbodies. Each tank covered 5,000 kilometres and fired 500 rounds of ammunition.

The Army wanted a third party to assess the tanks and called in experts from Israel. They subjected the tanks to more tests at the Mahajan range and were so impressed that they called it “a desert Ferrari”.

Arjun Mark I has imported content of more than 55 per cent, which includes the engine and the gun control system, which are from Germany, and the gunner's main sight, which is from Belgium. The tank has an excellent weight-to-power ratio, good mobility and accurate firepower. It weighs 58.5 tonnes and compares well with different heavy class of tanks available in the world. It has indigenously developed “Kanchan” armour, which can defeat different kinds of ammunition, and a 120mm rifled gun besides a robust transmission system and a flexible hydro-pneumatic suspension. The remaining 24 of the 124 tanks ordered by the Army will be produced by June this year, Sivakumar said.

As for Arjun Mark II, the CVRDE Director said the major upgrades would include missile-firing capability against long-range targets; panoramic sight with night vision to engage targets effectively at night; containerisation of the ammunition wing; enhanced penetration of Arjun's ammunition; a variety of ammunition; and a painted surface that will camouflage the tank.

Other major upgrades, according to Sivakumar, are explosive reactive armour; an advanced air-defence gun to shoot down helicopters; a plough to remove mines; and an advanced land navigation system. Arjun Mark II will have sensors that can detect lasers fired by an enemy tank and alert the tank to fire smoke grenades that confuse the laser. The first prototype demonstration of Ajun Mark II will take place by June 2011. By 2013-14, the first batch of about 30 tanks will roll out of the HVF, said Sivakumar.

 

[Water Car Engineer]

Skip to 5:30 and look at Arjuns ability in the desert!!

 

[Chanakyaa]

Great Video Liquid !!!

 

[IND151]

200 t0 280 arjuns are enough.
indian army
1.for numbers- t 72
2.for highly advanced tech and mobility-t 90
3.for desert war and requirement of accuracy,high protection-Arjun mk1 and mk2.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Am not surprised with article here.... Couple of years back I along with my friend visited CVRD Avadi, there were quite number of Isreali people working there..... Good cooperation.

 

[sudhir007]

 

[LeGenD]

You are talking too much Sh!t - M1a1 was offered to Pakistan in Zia era - It failed thin desert sand trails and ended up in a stream in the following trails in Punjab"s muddy terrain. Zia was killed after he was flying back from one of these trails in Bahawalpur.

It was refused based on its "Performance" NOT because of its "cost".

This is an old story. M1 Abrams platform have evolved a lot since then. We have seen M1 Abrams performing well in desert conditions.

The latest versions of M1 Abrams are completely redesigned products rather then a implementation of variety of improvements over older designs.

For example:

Exploiting the unique strengths of both the manufacturer and the Army depot, the tank is completely remanufactured resulting in a nearly new tank. (regarding M1A1D MBT)

Al-khalid meets our requirements. However, it is not a benchmark setting product. Keep in mind that even China have moved on towards newer chassis. Al-khalid is our answer to Indian (Russian) T-90 series. However, threat perceptions of Indian armor do not end here. Al-khalid II is being planned for a reason.

 

[SupermanKaPapa]

ArjunK is better than AL-Khalid like LCA is better than JF-17.

At last, at least one Pakistani Bro can accept the truth. Everybody knows that ArjunK is better than AL-Khalid and LCA is better than JF-17, but only you got the guts to admit it from Pakistan. Thumbs up to you man............you will go to heaven definitely.

To all Indian Members, please press the Thanks button of this brother's post more than of XiNiX to praise his guts to admit the truth.

 

[Omega007]

At last, at least one Pakistani Bro can accept the truth. Everybody knows that ArjunK is better than AL-Khalid and LCA is better than JF-17, but only you got the guts to admit it from Pakistan. Thumbs up to you man............you will go to heaven definitely.

To all Indian Members, please press the Thanks button of this brother's post more than of XiNiX to praise his guts to admit the truth.

Don't waste your time replying to these pakistanis.I have seen one of them saying that DRDO stole the PSLV technology from ISRO to develop the Agni missiles!!!!