Arjun-II MBT development l Updates & discussion.

[Omega007]

You edit it.I will take my rating back.I promise.

I can not edit it anymore,that's why I asked you.And the rating is fine mate,you did the the right thing.I deserved that,let it stay.

But please do something about that comment if you could.

 

[Dazzler]

The gaps for bolts are not that big a issue,I agree totally.But that's not the point here boss.The point is,a solid semi modular structure will always enjoy a significantly higher amount of structural strength vis-a-vis a fully modular one.It's just simple law of physics!!The Israelis paid dearly with their Merkava MkIVs for their over reliance on modularity.There's is a reason the major western tank builders like the US or the Germans held on to their semi modular approach.But in the end,it all boils down to operational requirements and doctrines.

About the gun barrels,to be frank,both electroslag remelting and autofrettagation process has been standard for quite some times.Nothing extraordinary.

80mm of hardened steel coupled with the light ERA currently available to Pakistan is not at all enough of a protection even against RPG 7VRs.Look at all the Russian,Ukrainian or the NATO tanks - all of them have composite armor cover throughout the frontal 60 degree ark in one form or the other,although the western approach is more well suited.
Even the Indians now have seemed to realised the problem with Arjun MkI side turret protection (in MkI it was about 45 degree) and has tried to rectify this (at least to a certain extent) by adding add on composite armor blocks and heavy ERA cover on the turret sides.Similar measures should be taken for AK.

As for the front turret LOS thickness,640mm and 660mm isn't that much big of a difference,now is it??Besides,I would take the words of Andreij since he has got quite a good connection with KMDB people and KMDB engineers did some work on your AK if my memory serves me correct.

And Arjun do have blow off panels and sealed ammunition compartments,just google for a top view of Arjun's turret and you will be able to see them.Don't take my words for it,you have the power of internet with you,use it to your advantage.
In fact,in Defexpo 2014,DRDO had published a photo showing a cooked-off ammo compartment and exhaustion of burning propelant gases through the blow-out panels on the turret roof.Search for it in D F I.

just few words here, half knowledge is worse thanno knkwledge. the same andrei tarasenko mentiined CV12 condor as alkhalid engine on his blog while the man is ukrainian. i myself have corrected him more thanonce.

lastly, this is arjun thread,enough derailing here,do ooen a new thread to duscuss further mbt matters. i will correct some assumptions.

 

[Omega007]

just few words here, half knowledge is worse thanno knkwledge. the same andrei tarasenko mentiined CV12 condor as alkhalid engine on his blog while the man is ukrainian. i myself have corrected him more thanonce.

lastly, this is arjun thread,enough derailing here,do ooen a new thread to duscuss further mbt matters. i will correct some assumptions.

Fair enough,will definitely do as you told in future.

Lastly,as to why I believe the LOS value of the front turret armor module is because it was posted with a picture with measurements in D F I.Ask militarysta for that picture or visit the "mbt and armor tech" thread.But I forgot the exact page,so you have to do the digging.

 

[Dazzler]

Fair enough,will definitely do as you told in future.

Lastly,as to why I believe the LOS value of the front turret armor module is because it was posted with a picture with measurements in D F I.Ask militarysta for that picture or visit the "mbt and armor tech" thread.But I forgot the exact page,so you have to do the digging.

dont buy too much of d f i either, some info is gud, other urtter bs

 

[Omega007]

dont buy too much of d f i either, some info is gud, other urtter bs

Couldn't agree more.And I think that the ~640mm value is for base model AKs.I'm sure engineers at HIT is working to improve the protection level in the later models as we speak, if they haven't done it already.But I still think that they should've gone for a semi modular construction.

 

[IND151]

What the **** are you talking about kid??
Do you even know that at first Arjun was meant to be a 45 ton tank with a three men crew??Then midway the development,the Pakistanis decided to induct the M1A1 and the Indian Army panicked.They suddenly realised that their supposed medium tank was no match and then they quickly backtracked and drafted a new GSQR.
Now they demanded the new tank had to be equipped with a 120mm high velocity gun,should have unitary ammo,isolated ammunition and fuel compartments,heavier armor that can take hits from the L44 gun of M1A1 and have a four men crew.In short,Army wanted a tank that could go head to head and toe to toe against the export model M1A1s.So the design had to be completely changed midstream which resulted in significant time and cost overruns.No wonder the resulting new tank gained so much extra weight!!It was not at all DRDO's fault,what was the army guys thinking then??Didn't they know that what they demanded was not possible without enhancing the weight significantly??If they had so much problem with weight,then why did they draft such a GSQR??Does it mean the Army deliberately wanted the Arjun to fail right from the start??Is that what you are implying moron??

Listen kiddo,it seems to me either that retired "intelligence officer" of yours has been suffering from amnesia and hence has lost all his rationale or more likely,you have been lying through your @rse like many a people do here;it's quite common here actually - take your pick.




What the **** are you talking about kid??
Do you even know that at first Arjun was meant to be a 45 ton tank with a three men crew??Then midway the development,the Pakistanis decided to induct the M1A1 and the Indian Army panicked.They suddenly realised that their supposed medium tank was no match and then they quickly backtracked and drafted a new GSQR.
Now they demanded the new tank had to be equipped with a 120mm high velocity gun,should have unitary ammo,isolated ammunition and fuel compartments,heavier armor that can take hits from the L44 gun of M1A1 and have a four men crew.In short,Army wanted a tank that could go head to head and toe to toe against the export model M1A1s.So the design had to be completely changed midstream which resulted in significant time and cost overruns.No wonder the resulting new tank gained so much extra weight!!It was not at all DRDO's fault,what was the army guys thinking then??Didn't they know that what they demanded was not possible without enhancing the weight significantly??If they had so much problem with weight,then why did they draft such a GSQR??So should that lead us to believe that the Army deliberately wanted the Arjun to fail right from the start??Is that what you are implying moron??

Listen kiddo,it seems to me either that retired "intelligence officer" of yours has been suffering from amnesia and hence has lost all his rationale or more likely,you have been lying through your @rse like many a people do here;it's quite common here actually - take your pick.

The possibility of PA acquiring Abrams M 1 definitely played its part.

1985 – 1990

There had been significant enhancement in the battle tank technologies world wide and there was a possibility of these tanks being introduced in the Indian Sub Continent.This prompted Indian Army to change its GSQR and in November 1985, third GSQR No. 467 was issued.The changes in GSQR were:

a)More lethal gun of 120mm caliber.
b)Requirement of Fin Stabilized Armour Piercing Discarding Sabot (FSAPDS)
c)Development of Semi Combustible Cartridge cases and high energy propellant.
d)Integrated Fire Control System based on sight stabilized system with periscopic gunner sight.
e)Thermal Imaging system for gunner’s main sight for night fighting capabilities.
f)Provision of “Kanchan Armour” for enhanced immunity.

The development of the tank was progressed with reference to the new GSQR. DRDO had to redesign the structure of chassis/ hull. The turret had to be designed again to cater to improved armour protection and a high power to weight ratio power pack. The MBT now also to feature Nuclear Biological and Chemical (NBC) warfare and protection system, Medium Fording capability, auxiliary power unit (APU), Laser Warning System (LWS) and Global Positioning System (GPS).


Story of MBT 80- Arjun

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

But it also has got some disadvantages too.We were merely trying to point them out.Doesn't mean we are calling it a junk or something because it isn't.

Like what? you pal here claimed tht it was a Chinese t-72 copy with a ukranian engine n a green paint? its autolaoder etc? can you tell us about just 1 single chinese system used by AK?

By the way,AK variants aren't the most dangerous tank in Pakistani inventory,it's actually those ~380 odd T 80UDs
(Ob'yekt
478B ).

Are you friggin serious? T-80U/84s are inferior to AK... and guess what a new variant will be show in december IDEAS 2014 .. This year...

P.S: UDs dont only have the wielded turret of T-84.. But also its systems.. which have been upgraded as of now.

 

[Omega007]

Like what? you pal here claimed tht it was a Chinese t-72 copy with a ukranian engine n a green paint? its autolaoder etc? can you tell us about just 1 single chinese system used by AK?





Are you friggin serious? T-80U/84s are inferior to AK... and guess what a new variant will be show in december IDEAS 2014 .. This year...

P.S: UDs dont only have the wielded turret of T-84.. But also its systems.. which have been upgraded as of now.

I never claimed such a thing.And you are too jingoistic to run a debate with,believe whatever you would like to.

@Dazzler ,you handle him boss,I'm outta here.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I never claimed such a thing.And you are too jingoistic to run a debate with,believe whatever you would like to.

@Dazzler ,you handle him boss,I'm outta here.

how abt reading my post again.. carefully n not acting all gung ho.

 

[Omega007]

how abt reading my post again.. carefully n not acting all gung ho.

I ain't acting all gung ho man,you know I respect you.But please take a notice at what you've written.You wrote,"you pal here claimed
tht it was a Chinese t-72 copy
with a ukranian engine n a greens
paint" - now you kindly tell me what is "you pal" supposed to mean here??

 

[Omega007]

@DESERT FIGHTER ,dude,as to why many including me believe the T 80UD (Ob'yekt 478B ) being the most dangerous tank in your inventory,I would answer it just two words - "turret geometry".Well,there are other points as well,but this one is the single most important one.
And could you please share some info wrt your new tank you told about??

 

[Alfa-Fighter]

What the Heck we are discussing PAK tank , @mods can you ban this posters who are trolling other then Arjun ???

 

[nik22]

Couldn't agree more.And I think that the ~640mm value is for base model AKs.I'm sure engineers at HIT is working to improve the protection level in the later models as we speak, if they haven't done it already.But I still think that they should've gone for a semi modular construction.

Wow, you have become nice and civilized. Hope you are doing better now.
Found your other posts for @GURU DUTT in a different thread. Was surprised to see your response.

 

[GORKHALI]

@DESERT FIGHTER ,dude,as to why many including me believe the T 80UD (Ob'yekt 478B ) being the most dangerous tank in your inventory,I would answer it just two words - "turret geometry".Well,there are other points as well,but this one is the single most important one.
And could you please share some info wrt your new tank you told about??

Hey Bro...Mail me at mikeyjena@gmail.com...

 

[Omega007]

Hey Bro...Mail me at mikeyjena@gmail.com...

Will do,THANX man.