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Are you with us or with Qatar, Saudis ask Pakistan

India has no role in middle east and geopolitics in the middle east and the Muslim world. India do not want nor get remittance from GCC.
Brother after my background and what I have gone through I would like nothing more than not only India being put in its place but disappearing completely from the world map as it is technically an oppressor. However I do have to point out, as a responsible individual without biases that remittances from the gulf are a major part of India's economy. Living in UAE I know that almost every doctor is Indian here and Indians make up more than 42% of the population.

Here is an article confirming:

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/business/gold-forex/remittances-from-gcc-to-india-hit-72b

I have always stated that Pakistanis have the raw numbers and lower class population and even a smaller number of professionals hungry for opportunities and better pay/security and conditions that can replace the Indians completely in the gulf. I have to note that for all our support for GCC, from its Israel stance to its Iran stance (and now the same GCC is divided with Qatar gone) we have got little in return. True, they helped us with aid and an opportunity for our workers to work in their countries but so did they give the Indians the same right (in fact they are here in greater numbers than us, same goes for aid as a lot of aid by the gulf goes to India too).

The "little return" part is specially true when it comes to foreign policy. We can argue we did not leverage our position and ask for much in return for training the arab militaries before the west took over the responsibility (US asked for a base and troops and for a great deal of foreign policy concessions). We played a role in the the Six day war and the Yom Kippur war and our pilots were some of the few that shot down Israeli planes with outdated Egyptian aircraft. A small role true, but has even a tinier than small role been played by any of the gulf states in any single one of our conflicts with India? Has Kashmir even been mentioned? Have ties between the Arab states been broken with India like they have been between Pakistan and Israel where we cannot even visit? Its good to think about Islam and the Ummah. But also necessary to leverage your national interests. And about the ummah be pragmatic. In the last centuries or so we have thought emotionally

About topic:

Also we all know what a cuckold Nawaz Sharif is, and it was the army chiefs presence that possibly helped him make the "decision" that we will be neutral after the Saudi monarch backed us in a corner and said "are you with Qatar or with us.". If you have studied the effect of damaging your opponent psychologically in military interrogation (before the physical process if needed) you will also know that threats and making your detainee choose between family and telling the truth about what he has done (in the case of international diplomacy this usually translates into making a leader perceived as weak choose between a vastly superior country vs a cornered or weak opponent- with 4 countries on Saudi's side and Trumps backing we all know who this is <I can qoute you some of the unclassified source material if you want> @El Sidd).

Also it does not say what Saud said after we said we will be neutral but it is a pressure tactic found in a foreign policy handbook used by powerful generals/heads of state/ministers to make other minor or weakened states submit to their demand. If you remember Musharraf in his memoirs states that US threatened "to bomb us to the stone age" before the post 9/11 Afghanistan invasion. That of course was a more direct threat also in a situation accentuated by a brutal terrorist attack but the implications obvious. When a people know they are vastly outnumbered and outclassed they make the decision for their own survival, not the right thing. It also is, unfortunately an unending contract and a sign of weakness by the weak proves that the person is not only weak but pathetic which leads to the demand of more concessions. Classic cases of this foreign policy example are in the 13th century surrender of a large chunk of Moravian territory (I don't remember the invading nation or the specific further concessions after the surrender, will have to read more to know-sorry, even a guy like me seeking unending knowledge in dreaming to be a diplomat/agent/policy maker and denied the opportunity knows so much) and the Tsarist Russian defeat in World war II in 1917, where the Axis powers demanded severe concessions:

The Brest-Litovsk Treaty resulted in the Russians surrendering the Ukraine, Finland, the Baltic provinces, the Caucasus and Poland.

http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSfww.htm

By the way here not only threats but internal strife (including war weariness within Russia) played a role and the axis powers took the opportunity admirably.

Also brother @El Sidd, I liked your posts in the start. And I have no reason to insult you knowing that you are smart and pragmatic, but you are not analyzing the situation here brother. Its your choice to support Saudi. Pakistan is a myriad of beautiful but unique views that differ from person to person and this is evident in both the foreign ministry and ISI's analysis wing but even I have to admit that people even at the top and within these institutions lack the knowledge of history/world politics, asking for something in return even from allies to make decisions critical to the countries security.

@Irfan Baloch good to see you back after so long. Any thoughts about what I have said?

Following the situation closely I would like to learn new perspectives. With Al Jazeera (though closed here in UAE after the crisis-very unfortunate as it is by far the best and most critical and liberal arab news outlet) I know the Qatari one and I do feel Jazeera has become way too concerned with presenting the Qatar situation from Thani's perspective- being a very liberal person I would like Al Jazeera to go back to its roots though and be a little more like it was before rather than being completely about Qatar's perspective (no need for another fox news here), though it is the best thing for journalism that happened in the middle east.(By the way this is not saying Jazeera has not been pushed into a corner here-the west does not like the muslim worldview and the muslim states, as proven recently are way too intolerant towards public debate, expressing differing opinion etc)

I would also like to have a critical debate with a Saudi member and a Turkish member for varying perspectives. Please share your thoughts @HAKIKAT @Zulkarneyn (Want to tag Saudis too, but can't get hold of any on this thread-why the ghost like behavior brothers?) Oh and @Kuwaiti Girl. Please comment.
 
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Brother after my background and what I have gone through I would like nothing more than not only India being put in its place but disappearing completely from the world map as it is technically an oppressor. However I do have to point out, as a responsible individual without biases that remittances from the gulf are a major part of India's economy. Living in UAE I know that almost every doctor is Indian here and Indians make up more than 42% of the population.

Here is an article confirming:

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/business/gold-forex/remittances-from-gcc-to-india-hit-72b

I have always stated that Pakistanis have the raw numbers and lower class population and even a smaller number of professionals hungry for opportunities and better pay/security and conditions that can replace the Indians completely in the gulf. I have to note that for all our support for GCC, from its Israel stance to its Iran stance (and now the same GCC is divided with Qatar gone) we have got little in return. True, they helped us with aid and an opportunity for our workers to work in their countries but so did they give the Indians the same right (in fact they are here in greater numbers than us, same goes for aid as a lot of aid by the gulf goes to India too).

The "little return" part is specially true when it comes to foreign policy. We can argue we did not leverage our position and ask for much in return for training the arab militaries before the west took over the responsibility (US asked for a base and troops and for a great deal of foreign policy concessions). We played a role in the the Six day war and the Yom Kippur war and our pilots were some of the few that shot down Israeli planes with outdated Egyptian aircraft. A small role true, but has even a tinier than small role been played by any of the gulf states in any single one of our conflicts with India? Has Kashmir even been mentioned? Have ties between the Arab states been broken with India like they have been between Pakistan and Israel where we cannot even visit? Its good to think about Islam and the Ummah. But also necessary to leverage your national interests. And about the ummah be pragmatic. In the last centuries or so we have thought emotionally

About topic:

Also we all know what a cuckold Nawaz Sharif is, and it was the army chiefs presence that possibly helped him make the "decision" that we will be neutral after the Saudi monarch backed us in a corner and said "are you with Qatar or with us.". If you have studied the effect of damaging your opponent psychologically in military interrogation (before the physical process if needed) you will also know that threats and making your detainee choose between family and telling the truth about what he has done (in the case of international diplomacy this usually translates into making a leader perceived as weak choose between a vastly superior country vs a cornered or weak opponent- with 4 countries on Saudi's side and Trumps backing we all know who this is <I can qoute you some of the unclassified source material if you want> @El Sidd).

Also it does not say what Saud said after we said we will be neutral but it is a pressure tactic found in a foreign policy handbook used by powerful generals/heads of state/ministers to make other minor or weakened states submit to their demand. If you remember Musharraf in his memoirs states that US threatened "to bomb us to the stone age" before the post 9/11 Afghanistan invasion. That of course was a more direct threat also in a situation accentuated by a brutal terrorist attack but the implications obvious. When a people know they are vastly outnumbered and outclassed they make the decision for their own survival, not the right thing. It also is, unfortunately an unending contract and a sign of weakness by the weak proves that the person is not only weak but pathetic which leads to the demand of more concessions. Classic cases of this foreign policy example are in the 13th century surrender of a large chunk of Moravian territory (I don't remember the invading nation or the specific further concessions after the surrender, will have to read more to know-sorry, even a guy like me seeking unending knowledge in dreaming to be a diplomat/agent/policy maker and denied the opportunity knows so much) and the Tsarist Russian defeat in World war II in 1917, where the Axis powers demanded severe concessions:

The Brest-Litovsk Treaty resulted in the Russians surrendering the Ukraine, Finland, the Baltic provinces, the Caucasus and Poland.

http://spartacus-educational.com/RUSfww.htm

By the way here not only threats but internal strife (including war weariness within Russia) played a role and the axis powers took the opportunity admirably.

Also brother @El Sidd, I liked your posts in the start. And I have no reason to insult you knowing that you are smart and pragmatic, but you are not analyzing the situation here brother. Its your choice to support Saudi. Pakistan is a myriad of beautiful but unique views that differ from person to person and this is evident in both the foreign ministry and ISI's analysis wing but even I have to admit that people even at the top and within these institutions lack the knowledge of history/world politics, asking for something in return even from allies to make decisions critical to the countries security.

@Irfan Baloch good to see you back after so long. Any thoughts about what I have said?

Following the situation closely I would like to learn new perspectives. With Al Jazeera (though closed here in UAE after the crisis-very unfortunate as it is by far the best and most critical and liberal arab news outlet) I know the Qatari one and I do feel Jazeera has become way too concerned with presenting the Qatar situation from Thani's perspective- being a very liberal person I would like Al Jazeera to go back to its roots though and be a little more like it was before rather than being completely about Qatar's perspective (no need for another fox news here), though it is the best thing for journalism that happened in the middle east.(By the way this is not saying Jazeera has not been pushed into a corner here-the west does not like the muslim worldview and the muslim states, as proven recently are way too intolerant towards public debate, expressing differing opinion etc)

I would also like to have a critical debate with a Saudi member and a Turkish member for varying perspectives. Please share your thoughts @HAKIKAT @Zulkarneyn (Want to tag Saudis too, but can't get hold of any on this thread-why the ghost like behavior brothers?) Oh and @Kuwaiti Girl. Please comment.

The Turkish Muslim intellectuals' point of view is simple: the ultimate goal is to crush the very heart of the Muslim existence that is Keba. They won't stop till tanks are rolled into Haremain. All major and minor incidents since the end of the cold war is being planned and implemented in this regard. Everything is a part of the central game plan. And Turkey under Reis Erdo'an wants to foil this plan for at the end of the day none will be spared -KSA/GCC, Turkey, Iran, Pak etc. All will be turned into a living hell. Syria/Iraq/Libya etc. are just trailers to this movie!!!!! Entire region will be turned into miniscule city states perpetually engaged in fighting one another!!!! Unfortunately, the role of the puppets in the region is to perfect and fine-tune it to the best of their ability!!!!Anyway, if they have a plan then there's another PLAN where no mortals have any share or say!!!!!
 
We should not beome thaikaidaar of Ummmah, just take side if it is in the interest of Pakistan for long term. I would say take side with western countries and saudi arab allies. Take clear stance and we need to leave hypocrisy.
We should Go with old allies and don't break their trust.
We are leaving them when they need us.

do you think Pakistan can bear one more war in her western border with millions more refugees? its not about taking sides its about inviting more war in our region. refusing KSA doesn't mean supporting Iran at all.
 
Are you with us or with Qatar, Saudis ask Pakistan
By Kamran Yousaf
Published: June 14, 2017
2089SHARES
SHARE TWEET EMAIL
1434933-snawaz-1497417628-767-640x480.jpg

Nawaz says Islamabad will not take sides in brewing Middle East crisis. PHOTO: REUTERS

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has told Saudi Arabia it will not take sides in the brewing diplomatic crisis in the Middle East after Riyadh asked Islamabad “are you with us or with Qatar”.

The Saudi demand for Pakistan to take a clear position on Qatar came during a meeting between Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz, diplomatic sources told The Express Tribune.

Premier Sharif, who was also accompanied by army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa and other senior officials, dashed to Jeddah on Monday to discuss the emerging situation in the Arab world.

PM, army chief meet Saudi King

Pakistan has been treading a careful path since Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries snapped diplomatic ties with Qatar after accusing the oil-rich country of supporting terrorist groups.

But now Riyadh wants Islamabad to side with the kingdom as it ramped up efforts to isolate Qatar.

A senior government official, who was briefed on the talks at the monarch’s palace in Jeddah, told The Express Tribune that the Pakistani side told the Saudi leadership that Islamabad would support any efforts to foster unity among the Muslim Ummah. However, Pakistan would not take sides in any event that would create divisions within the Muslim world.

Nevertheless, in order to placate Saudi Arabia, Pakistan offered to use its influence over Qatar to defuse the situation. For this purpose, the prime minister will undertake visits to Kuwait, Qatar and Turkey.

Another official familiar with the development explained that Pakistan would only complement efforts of Kuwait to defuse the crisis in the Arab world instead of playing the role of a direct mediator between Qatar and other Gulf countries. The official said Pakistan was not directly mediating between Qatar and Saudi Arabia at this stage.

Qatar says Gulf citizens can stay despite crisis

“This is primarily an issue among the Gulf countries and we hope they resolve the issue by themselves,” the official said while requesting not to be quoted on record because of the sensitivity of the issue. The official added if efforts of Kuwait and other regional countries could not succeed, then other Muslim countries, including Pakistan and Turkey, were always there to facilitate.

At this stage, Pakistan is only complementing efforts of Kuwait. For this purpose, the prime minister is likely to travel to Kuwait, which is currently spearheading efforts seeking de-escalation of tensions between Qatar and other Gulf countries.

The official also explained that the prime minister’s visit to Saudi Arabia was also part of a ‘goodwill gesture’ in the wake of speculations that Pakistan was sending troops to Qatar.

“The false media reports gave the impression as if we are taking sides in the ongoing crisis in the Gulf,” the official said.

Meanwhile, a statement issued by the Foreign Office on Tuesday said that during meeting with King Salman, Premier Sharif expressed the hope that the current impasse in the Gulf would be resolved soon in the best interest of the Muslim Ummah.

While expressing solidarity with the kingdom and the people of Saudi Arabia, the prime minister said the kingdom had a very special place in the hearts of Pakistanis and that the Muslim world looked up to the monarch as the custodian of the two Holy Mosques.

“The prime minister reaffirmed the strong commitment of the people and the government of Pakistan for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the kingdom, and the safety of Harmain al Shareifain,” the statement said.

King Salman, according to the statement, thanked the prime minister for his visit and recalled the special nature of relationship between the kingdom and Pakistan ever since its independence. King Salman also said that the fight against extremism and terrorism was in the interest of all Muslims and the Ummah.

He also appreciated the exceptional successes of Pakistan against extremism and terrorism, despite the challenging situation and environment, and reiterated the kingdom’s strong commitment and support for all issues of interest for Pakistan, including matters of its national security.

Meanwhile, leader of the opposition in the National Assembly Khursheed Shah claimed that the prime minister’s visit to Saudi Arabia could not achieve the desired results and hence no joint statement was issued.

Speaking to reporters, he demanded that the government clarify the role of former army chief General (retd) Raheel Sharif in the Saudi-led counter terrorism alliance in the wake of ongoing developments.


Read more: Gulf crisis , Latest , Prime Nawaz Sjarif
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1434933/gulf-diplomatic-crisis-us-qatar-saudis-ask-pakistan/
We are with who pay us more .
 
brother you smell like Iranian puppet
you know true Muslims and Israel term the Iranians as worse than ISIS? this is why therefore they find it halal and koshar to support ISIS as well?

the onlky sad thing here is Iranian Ayatullahs are laughing because true Muslims are about to fight with each other instead of conquering them and making them Muslims

Wrong! unlike you I do not see Muslims through saudi - wahabi sectarian sunglass. I see Mulims with core values. Now if you want to express saudi extremist view and propagate what house of saud wishes, you will find yourself in isolated group. Even without overlay of religion, simply on human term massive killing by saudis in Yemen is just barbaric. You calling Saudi led mass killing in Yemen "ok", shows where your mindset belongs.


That means saudis are screwed for now and for long term. Trump already left saudis in the middle of the road with loss of face in front of whole world. Yet, you still chest thumping. It is just comical now.
 
Why are you jealous with their lavish life style? Allah blessed them , and Allah is happy with them. Who are you to criticize them. They always supported Pakistan in critical times. Saudi Arabia want to continue their support for Pakistan even we didn't become part of yemen war when they needed us most.

The guy is trying to brainwash Pakistani thinking they dont have working brains, typical likes of low IQ bharati..

Pakistan must stay neutral, if forced to take sides we should chose GCC minus Qatar who provide jobs to 2 million Pakistanis along with investments. its not first time Pakistani and Turks will be on other side of fence, Turkey backed northern alliance warlord against Pakistan backed Mujahideen in Afghanistan..

Did you understand what I said?

I think you didn't really understand it correctly.

i understand, Nationalists (Turanists) are even worst then rightists blind followers.
 
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Flies to Saudi Arabia: Yo !! Brother we got your back.
Flies to Qatar: Yo !! Brother we got your back.

Comes home with both the LNG and Oil supply pretty much in safe hands.

Pakistan as per foreign policy always sides with the stronger historically. Strictly business and no offense to anyone here or any nation for that matter.

And if you want me to be blunt: Pakistan is highly unlikely to do anything which burdens its ties with Saudi Arabia and will protect Saudi Arabia's integrity like its own.

Pakistan will remain neutral and that will be sufficient for Qatar and so far that is exactly what Pakistan has done. Show me one evidence that contradicts what I've just said.
 
If Pakistan sides with KSA on this you will have left the hope for a better tomorrow - for easy money from corrupt KSA with their lavish lifestyles' - remember how KSA and her cronies view Pakistanis.
And remember Turkey supports Qatar till the end.

The dog in charge of us was saved from execution by the Saudi's. That will be where he escapes too when his time comes. Yesterdays mistakes haunt us today.
 
Pm surely would have said that Pakistan is with Saudi. I can bet on this . Taking advantage and getting disappearing from the picture is best option for Pakistan.
These both are the mirror image of each other. What Muslim ummah are we talking about.the same ummah who have done nothing while everyone kill Muslim in their backyards and there leaders are taking shit in gold made flush . While million in Syria Iraq Kashmir Myanmar Nigeria Palestine ( to name a few) are dying of hunger and are being killed and these leader are best friends with them and provided them with funds and jobs in their country. Simply the Arabs can go screw themselves they are not good for Pakistan.
 
Pakistan will remain neutral and that will be sufficient for Qatar and so far that is exactly what Pakistan has done. Show me one evidence that contradicts what I've just said.

That's for Pakistanis to decide. The Pakistanis who live in once called West Pakistan. You know the Pakistan west from the East Pakistan

We don't care about the crisis. We will milk them both.

Why don't you just talk on Bangladesh and its politics and policy?
 
Pakistan should be neutral and don't take any side. Gulf arabs will sort out their issues in coming days.
 
Are you with us or with Qatar, Saudis ask Pakistan
By Kamran Yousaf
Published: June 14, 2017
2089SHARES
SHARE TWEET EMAIL
1434933-snawaz-1497417628-767-640x480.jpg

Nawaz says Islamabad will not take sides in brewing Middle East crisis. PHOTO: REUTERS

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan has told Saudi Arabia it will not take sides in the brewing diplomatic crisis in the Middle East after Riyadh asked Islamabad “are you with us or with Qatar”.

The Saudi demand for Pakistan to take a clear position on Qatar came during a meeting between Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and Saudi King Salman bin Abdulaziz, diplomatic sources told The Express Tribune.

Premier Sharif, who was also accompanied by army chief General Qamar Javed Bajwa and other senior officials, dashed to Jeddah on Monday to discuss the emerging situation in the Arab world.

PM, army chief meet Saudi King

Pakistan has been treading a careful path since Saudi Arabia and other Gulf countries snapped diplomatic ties with Qatar after accusing the oil-rich country of supporting terrorist groups.

But now Riyadh wants Islamabad to side with the kingdom as it ramped up efforts to isolate Qatar.

A senior government official, who was briefed on the talks at the monarch’s palace in Jeddah, told The Express Tribune that the Pakistani side told the Saudi leadership that Islamabad would support any efforts to foster unity among the Muslim Ummah. However, Pakistan would not take sides in any event that would create divisions within the Muslim world.

Nevertheless, in order to placate Saudi Arabia, Pakistan offered to use its influence over Qatar to defuse the situation. For this purpose, the prime minister will undertake visits to Kuwait, Qatar and Turkey.

Another official familiar with the development explained that Pakistan would only complement efforts of Kuwait to defuse the crisis in the Arab world instead of playing the role of a direct mediator between Qatar and other Gulf countries. The official said Pakistan was not directly mediating between Qatar and Saudi Arabia at this stage.

Qatar says Gulf citizens can stay despite crisis

“This is primarily an issue among the Gulf countries and we hope they resolve the issue by themselves,” the official said while requesting not to be quoted on record because of the sensitivity of the issue. The official added if efforts of Kuwait and other regional countries could not succeed, then other Muslim countries, including Pakistan and Turkey, were always there to facilitate.

At this stage, Pakistan is only complementing efforts of Kuwait. For this purpose, the prime minister is likely to travel to Kuwait, which is currently spearheading efforts seeking de-escalation of tensions between Qatar and other Gulf countries.

The official also explained that the prime minister’s visit to Saudi Arabia was also part of a ‘goodwill gesture’ in the wake of speculations that Pakistan was sending troops to Qatar.

“The false media reports gave the impression as if we are taking sides in the ongoing crisis in the Gulf,” the official said.

Meanwhile, a statement issued by the Foreign Office on Tuesday said that during meeting with King Salman, Premier Sharif expressed the hope that the current impasse in the Gulf would be resolved soon in the best interest of the Muslim Ummah.

While expressing solidarity with the kingdom and the people of Saudi Arabia, the prime minister said the kingdom had a very special place in the hearts of Pakistanis and that the Muslim world looked up to the monarch as the custodian of the two Holy Mosques.

“The prime minister reaffirmed the strong commitment of the people and the government of Pakistan for the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the kingdom, and the safety of Harmain al Shareifain,” the statement said.

King Salman, according to the statement, thanked the prime minister for his visit and recalled the special nature of relationship between the kingdom and Pakistan ever since its independence. King Salman also said that the fight against extremism and terrorism was in the interest of all Muslims and the Ummah.

He also appreciated the exceptional successes of Pakistan against extremism and terrorism, despite the challenging situation and environment, and reiterated the kingdom’s strong commitment and support for all issues of interest for Pakistan, including matters of its national security.

Meanwhile, leader of the opposition in the National Assembly Khursheed Shah claimed that the prime minister’s visit to Saudi Arabia could not achieve the desired results and hence no joint statement was issued.

Speaking to reporters, he demanded that the government clarify the role of former army chief General (retd) Raheel Sharif in the Saudi-led counter terrorism alliance in the wake of ongoing developments.


Read more: Gulf crisis , Latest , Prime Nawaz Sjarif
https://tribune.com.pk/story/1434933/gulf-diplomatic-crisis-us-qatar-saudis-ask-pakistan/
not again....
man, stand up and have balls; or has Pak leadership become eunuchs?
 

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