Are TURKEY and PAKISTAN really ALLIES?

[Kaniska]

VERY VERY true, I can see most Chinese members who signed up to this forum to troll India like me became neutral because of those Xinjiang exchanges in PDF.

One inappropriate statement made by the Pakistani government can swiftly change Pakistan's image in the eyes of the Chinese government and the Chinese public, fortunately, we haven't seen any yet, but I got a feeling it's a matter of time that pops up.

That is not fair to your relationship with Pakistan....China is a rising power...Rather than using Pakistan against India and vice versa, why can not you approach in a way where all 3 of us can have a mutually respectful relationship with each other. You do not have to talk against India to befriend Pakistan. Your friendship with Pakistan should have its own foundation rather than based on the assumption that Pakistan will be always against India...

 

[beijingwalker]

That is not fair to your relationship with Pakistan....China is a rising power...Rather than using Pakistan against India and vice versa, why can not you approach in a way where all 3 of us can have a mutually respectful relationship with each other. You do not have to talk against India to befriend Pakistan. Your friendship with Pakistan should have its own foundation rather than based on the assumption that Pakistan will be always against India...

I m more for this view now.

 

[PradoTLC]

Ally is one of the highly misused word in foreign relations...If any one want to know who is the ally of which country then first find out the need of each country for each other...If your need and long term objective allign which benifit nations with economic prosperity then they can be allies..

Just ask one simple question...During last year financial crisis, Pakistan has to go for IMF for around 15-20 Billion dollar loan?...Why the heck the these so called rich and powerful muslim allies can not arrange 20 billion with zero interest for Pakistan that could have changed the dynamics of Pakistan economy...Is 20 billion is too much for Arabs, Turks and so called allies of Pakistan to arrange it???

My broader intent is here not to point figures with Pakistan realation with Islamic countries rather showing the actual scenario where it is bloody Non Muslim countries like West and China stood with Pakistan in crucial times....

The only easy things that are done by Muslim nations to be an ally of Pakistan is to criticize India and Israel and get the high table in relationships with Pakistan...Because these loose talk and criticizing India do not really cost any money but helping Pakistan financially cost money..

This is the reality of Turkey and so called othet nationa who are brothers of Pakistan...
I have seen the exact same feeling by Pakistan for Gulf nationa in 1990-2010...Now Arabs are replaced by new friends...

so much interest for pakistan but like a typical indian, ignorant, misinformed and highly biased.

for your education

1) Our allies did help please do a little research. Now why they didnt go all the way?... bcos of issue from our side not theirs.

2) West never stood with Pakistan , they only stood with us as long as we entertain them...like a dancing monkey. Now india has that title... or more accurately the dancing baboon.

3) the Gulf states have done alot to help us. in 1998 right after India nuke the radical BJP threaten us with destruction. KSA & UAE send Fighters and AWAC to augment us. TuAF put it's unit on standby in case india attacked. What ever issues we had with them was due our internal issues on FP handling not theirs.

4) loose talk in critizing india?...lol. u need lots of education. here is a start...

That is not fair to your relationship with Pakistan....China is a rising power...Rather than using Pakistan against India and vice versa, why can not you approach in a way where all 3 of us can have a mutually respectful relationship with each other. You do not have to talk against India to befriend Pakistan. Your friendship with Pakistan should have its own foundation rather than based on the assumption that Pakistan will be always against India...

has it ever occurred to you that the problems with Pakistan is largely your own fault?...


have you even seen your shameless follies?

I m more for this view now.

the problem is india doesnt want to talk rationally.

ne doesn't expect meeting that roadside segment of the society. Even enemies can have fruitful conversation.

like this guy....

 

[Kaniska]

so much interest for pakistan but like a typical indian, ignorant, misinformed and highly biased.

for your education

1) Our allies did help please do a little research. Now why they didnt go all the way?... bcos of issue from our side not theirs.

2) West never stood with Pakistan , they only stood with us as long as we entertain them...like a dancing monkey. Now india has that title... or more accurately the dancing baboon.

3) the Gulf states have done alot to help us. in 1998 right after India nuke the radical BJP threaten us with destruction. KSA & UAE send Fighters and AWAC to augment us. TuAF put it's unit on standby in case india attacked. What ever issues we had with them was due our internal issues on FP handling not theirs.

4) loose talk in critizing india?...lol. u need lots of education. here is a start...

has it ever occurred to you that the problems with Pakistan is largely your own fault?...


have you even seen your shameless follies?



the problem is india doesnt want to talk rationally.




like this guy....

I do not need to any reserch here.I am getting all the information from PDF only...

India and Pakistan has to admit that they should stop fooling each others public that all the problem in our countries are due to India or Pakistan...

When nations stand up foe another nation, they do not do any thing dramatic...West stood with you since independence....But problem is that you turned your nation into a security state...Rather than asking for help in building a dam from your friend, Pakistan asked to build defence or missiles...So it is the lack of deciding your long term objective is reaponsible...Do not blame your supporters when your priority in wrong....
Support China is doing CPEC...but if Pakistsn do not fix its internal economic and there is a lack of progress in ROI for Pakistan, then it is not China’s problem...

who stopped you to get fund from Arabs to establish the university and Dams...Arabs are quite rich to loan and invest money for your support to them..

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I do think that Turkey and Pakistan are allies or even more.

This bond has grown primarily because of their shared history.
I do not know when it started, but I think during the Cold War, the bond became stronger, when Turkey and Pakistan together resisted the advance of Communism in that part of Asia.

Although the United States was an ally in the Cold War, that changed after the war ended.
The relationship with the United States for both countries has since deteriorated.
For Pakistan especially after 9/11.
For Turkey after Erdogan became prime minister.
Yet the relationship between Turkey and Pakistan has not.
Maybe because they both see the United States as the common enemy, just like Communism before.
They did not want to take orders from Communist leaders then, yet they both ended up taking orders from the U.S.
So, maybe they know that they need to band together in order to resist the U.S., just like they resisted Communism.

I also think that they both dream of a reviving Islam in a certain way in that part of Asia.
A way which is not as how the Arabs, Iranians, Afghans or any other primarily Muslim people want or envision it.
Therefore Turkey and Pakistan might feel that other Islamic countries do not understand what they are both trying to accomplish.
This feeling might also strengthen their bond in a sense that they are the only two left.
The others are misguided.
They are puppets.

And although they are now not strong enough to resist the U.S. to make their dream come true, many of them think and hope that there will be a day when they can.

From that day everything will be better... a new dawn.

This is why they know they need to patient.
But also why they need to support each other in the meantime.
Since one cannot accomplish their dream, only both, together, can do so.

Beautiful and eloquently put.

Our relationship began with the first Turkish empires which ruled Anatolia and first Turkish empires which ruled Afghan-Pakistan region.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Beautiful and eloquently put.

Our relationship began with the first Turkish empires which ruled Anatolia and first Turkish empires which ruled Afghan-Pakistan region.

Perhaps but the crux of the the alliance has been thanks to blessing of Uncle Sam with CENTO, and the former Baghdad Pact and both countries being foot soliders for the US hegemony in the past

I do not need to any reserch here.I am getting all the information from PDF only...

India and Pakistan has to admit that they should stop fooling each others public that all the problem in our countries are due to India or Pakistan...

When nations stand up foe another nation, they do not do any thing dramatic...West stood with you since independence....But problem is that you turned your nation into a security state...Rather than asking for help in building a dam from your friend, Pakistan asked to build defence or missiles...So it is the lack of deciding your long term objective is reaponsible...Do not blame your supporters when your priority in wrong....
Support China is doing CPEC...but if Pakistsn do not fix its internal economic and there is a lack of progress in ROI for Pakistan, then it is not China’s problem...

who stopped you to get fund from Arabs to establish the university and Dams...Arabs are quite rich to loan and invest money for your support to them..

And India did the same with the Soviet Union using the vast investments from there to expand defense needs again South Asia basically is a large customer for arms sales regardless at this point at time

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

He is funded by russia like the way sheikh imran hosein is also funded by the same enemy. Their ulterior motive is to create discord amongst muslim

Thank you for sharing this. There is another Pakistani running around badmouthing Turkey, he is a mureed of Imran Hosein.

Besides these two, every other Pakistani here is fully supportive of Turkey, even the Shia Pakistanis

In Pakistan itself, love for Turkey is unanimous. Anyone who talks against Turkey is like he is talking against Islam itself. This is how strongly we support Turks

 

[Yankee-stani]

Thank you for sharing this. There is another Pakistani running around badmouthing Turkey, he is a mureed of Imran Hosein.

Besides these two, every other Pakistani here is fully supportive of Turkey, even the Shia Pakistanis

In Pakistan itself, love for Turkey is unanimous. Anyone who talks against Turkey is like he are talking against Islam itself. This is how strongly we support Turks

Oh really so are implying that anyone that has some valid critical points towards Turkish policies in the region is shrill for Imran Hossein or an Iranian agent you know whats funny on PDF PDFers complain so much about Saudi or Iran for all the things they do the region but when Turkey does the same thing ohh they allies of Pakistan so no critical views there hypocrites

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

If Pakistan has to make a choice between China and Turkey, pakistani people will choose Turkey instantly, Pakistani government, no matter which party in office, will choose China without a second thought.

Pakistan is part of the same civilization and mindset as Turkey.

You have to accept that we won't say anything against Turkey. They are our blood brothers and sisters.

That doesn't mean, however, that Pakistan will turn against China.

We balanced US and China for a long time as well, and same for GCC and Iran. We always strive for peace and friendly relations between our friends.

Currently we are fulfilling that role between Turkey and China as well.

One inappropriate statement made by the Pakistani government can swiftly change Pakistan's image in the eyes of the Chinese government and the Chinese public , fortunately we haven't seen any yet, but I got a feeling it's a matter of time that pops up.

No, it won't. You need to come visit Pakistan. I have seen many Chinese tourists these days.

Ask people their opinion of China, you will hear only good things.

You forget that you are our neighbor and friend for many decades, we don't dishonor our friends by being inhospitable.

 

[Kaniska]

Perhaps but the crux of the the alliance has been thanks to blessing of Uncle Sam with CENTO, and the former Baghdad Pact and both countries being foot soliders for the US hegemony in the past



And India did the same with the Soviet Union using the vast investments from there to expand defense needs again South Asia basically is a large customer for arms sales regardless at this point at time

spot on...India used USSR to set up IIT and space level cooperation but we could have done more while not using our frienship with Russians who leader in science and technology in 80’s.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Pakistan is part of the same civilization and mindset as Turkey.

You have to accept that we won't say anything against Turkey. They are our blood brothers and sisters.

That doesn't mean, however, that Pakistan will turn against China.

We balanced US and China for a long time as well, and same for GCC and Iran. We always strive for peace and friendly relations between our friends.

Currently we are fulfilling that role between Turkey and China as well.



No, it won't. You need to come visit Pakistan. I have seen many Chinese tourists these days.

Ask people their opinion of China, you will hear only good things.

You forget that you are our neighbor and friend for many decades, we don't dishonor our friends by being inhospitable.

Turkey and Pakistan only common thing is religion are they some Turkic-Mongol influence yes sort of but I would argue Pakistan has much more common with Iran and Afghanistan to much more extent than Anatolia problem is because of stagnation and basic historical revisionism by failed Pakistani scholars we are lead to this weird and pityful larping first in the 70s and 80s through the 90s the tropes of we wuz ARABS was used since the 2000s and 2010s its been we wuz TURKS and shiett again shame on Pakistanis for these larping and besides Pakistani Govt officials know without the help of Beijing we would be no where tbh hence I would say the People's Republic of China is NO ally for us 2nd is Turkey or KSA

 

[beijingwalker]

Turkey is a psychological ally of Pakistan, because China can't meet the psychological needs.

psychological needs? Now Pakistan is being threatened by locusts and global coronavirus threat, I hope Turkey give some tangible helps besides psychological needs.

 

[Yankee-stani]

spot on...India used USSR to set up IIT and space level cooperation but we could have done more while not using our frienship with Russians who leader in science and technology in 80’s.

If only that Quaid Millet Liaqat had a brain we would have allied with Moscow or at least stayed out of this pathetic cold war nonsense instead we got dragged into that mess

psychological needs? Now Pakistan is being threatened by locusts and global coronavirus threat, I hope Turkey give some tangible helps besides psychological needs.

China is basically Pakistan's true ally Turkey is an ally but they are no way close to what Beijing does for it as for people to people both are just alien however Turks are lesser alien cause they are Muslim simple

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

psychological needs? Now Pakistan is being threatened by locusts and global coronavirus threat, I hope Turkey give some tangible helps besides psychological needs.

Guys, don't worry about our friendship with Turkey or anyone else.

Let us see about Pakistan, China friendship only.

Pakistan is an independent country which has every right to have relations with its neighbors and friends.

Don't be low like Indians, and even these days Arabs and Iranians, who burn with anger when Pakistan has good relationships with other countries.

 

[Yankee-stani]

Guys, don't worry about our friendship with Turkey or anyone else.

Let us see about Pakistan, China friendship only.

Pakistan is an independent country which has every right to have relations with its neighbors and friends.

Don't be low like Indians, and even these days Arabs and Iranians, who burn with anger when Pakistan has good relationships with other countries.

The Turks should not burn when we dont support them in their policies in Syria or whatever place lol