Apache-Chinook choppers deal to be signed soon

[Ind4Ever]

AH-1Z has only one engine?

and some equally retarded gave this guy a positive rating......

LMAO.

That's not gonna change Apache superiority.
General characteristics

Crew: 2 (pilot, and co-pilot/gunner) Length: 58.17 ft (17.73 m) (with both rotors turning) Rotor diameter: 48 ft 0 in (14.63 m) Height: 12.7 ft (3.87 m) Disc area: 1,809.5 ft² (168.11 m²) Empty weight: 11,387 lb (5,165 kg) Loaded weight: 17,650 lb (8,000 kg) Max. takeoff weight: 23,000 lb (10,433 kg) Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-701 turboshafts, 1,690 shp (1,260 kW) [upgraded to T700-GE-701C (for AH-64A/D from 1990), 1,890 shp (1,409 kW)] each Fuselage length: 49 ft 5 in (15.06 m) Rotor systems: 4 blade main rotor, 4 blade tail rotor in non-orthogonal alignment
Performance

Never exceed speed: 197 knots (227 mph, 365 km/h) Maximum speed: 158 knots (182 mph, 293 km/h) Cruise speed: 143 knots (165 mph, 265 km/h) Range: 257 nmi (295 mi, 476 km) with Longbow radar mast Combat radius: 260 nmi (300 mi, 480 km) Ferry range: 1,024 nmi (1,180 mi, 1,900 km) Service ceiling: 21,000 ft (6,400 m) minimum loaded Rate of climb: 2,500 ft/min (12.7 m/s) Disc loading: 9.80 lb/ft² (47.9 kg/m²) Power/mass: 0.18 hp/lb (0.31 kW/kg)
Armament

Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) M230 Chain Gun with 1,200 rounds as part of the Area Weapon Subsystem Hardpoints: Four pylon stations on the stub wings. Longbows also have a station on each wingtip for an AIM-92 Stinger twin missile pack.[65] Rockets: Hydra 70 70 mm, and CRV7 70 mm air-to-ground rockets Missiles: Typically AGM-114 Hellfire variants; AIM-92 Stinger may also be carried.
Avionics

Lockheed Martin / Northrop Grumman AN/APG-78 Longbow fire-control radar[280] (Note: can only be mounted on the AH-64D/E)



AH1z :
General characteristics

Crew: 2: pilot, co-pilot/gunner (CPG)
Capacity: 6,661 lb (3,021 kg)
Length: 58 ft 3 in (17.8 m)
Rotor diameter: 48 ft (14.6 m)
Height: 14 ft 4 in (4.37 m)
Disc area: 1,808 ft² (168.0 m²)
Empty weight: 12,300 lb (5,580 kg)
Useful load: 5,764 lb (2,620 kg)
Max. takeoff weight: 18,500 lb (8,390 kg)
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-401C turboshaft, 1,800 shp (1,340 kW) each
Rotor systems: 4 blades on main rotor, 4 blades on tail rotor
Performance

Never exceed speed: 222 knots (255 mph, 411 km/h) in a dive
Cruise speed: 160 kn (184 mph, 296 km/h)
Range: 370 nmi (426 mi, 685 km)
Combat radius: 125 nmi (144 mi, 231 km) with 2,500 lb (1,130 kg) payload
Service ceiling: 20,000+ ft (6,000+ m)
Rate of climb: 2,790 ft/min (14.2 m/s)
Armament

Guns: 1 × 20 mm (0.787 in) M197 3-barreled Gatling cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 round ammo capacity)
Hardpoints: Up to 6 pylon stations on stub wing
Rockets: 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 or APKWS II[33] rockets – Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers
Missiles:
AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles – 1 mounted on each wing tip station (total of 2)
AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missiles – Up to 16 missiles mounted in four 4-round M272 missile launchers, two on each wing

 

[Abingdonboy]

So that's at least 50 Chinooks on their way (Follow on orders are assured and the Indian SOCOM under raising is looking at it seriously) and a heck of a lot more AH-64Es (22+39 and that is before follow on orders the both the IAF and IA will exercise). I'm still entirely unsold on the need for the IAF to have Apaches when the IA is getting their own but that's a nice problem to have ......


This is a massive boost to India's wartime and peacetime capabilities especially on the tactical airlift front. The IAF's 4 mi-26s are now almost 100% in a state of AOG.

someone do a proper vs comparison for these new Indian/Pakistani toys please
View attachment 259269

@Chanakya's_Chant @MilSpec @others

An entirely redundant comparison to make as attack helicopters are never going to be used to against each other. Having said that, the AH-64E is by FAR the most technologically advanced attack helicopter in the world and has been designed specifically to integrate into the kind of net-centric future battlefield concept the IA and IAF are busy trying to implement.

 

[Ind4Ever]

39 Apache follow on for Army Aviation....

The end of a bitter Air Force vs Army battle could mean India finally gets modern attack helicopters | idrw.org

 

[Styx]

An entirely redundant comparison to make as attack helicopters are never going to be used to against each other. Having said that, the AH-64E is by FAR the most technologically advanced attack helicopter in the world and has been designed specifically to integrate into the kind of net-centric future battlefield concept the IA and IAF are busy trying to implement.

wasn't talking about a vs, as in literally used against each other, but just a regular features comparison of 2 attack helos as both armies/air forces will have similar roles for their respective machines.

so specifically, apart from the radar capabilities, where does the AH-64D beat the viper that justifies it's twice as expensive price tag ?

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

An entirely redundant comparison to make as attack helicopters are never going to be used to against each other. Having said that, the AH-64E is by FAR the most technologically advanced attack helicopter in the world and has been designed specifically to integrate into the kind of net-centric future battlefield concept the IA and IAF are busy trying to implement.

so specifically, apart from the radar capabilities, where does the AH-64D beat the viper that justifies it's twice as expensive price tag ?

As far as the price tag is concerned - IAF deal includes 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOW missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles, 245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles, and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, rockets, training and dummy missiles, 30 mm ammunition, transponders and simulators.

The IAF will have 12 out of 22 helicopters fitted with the ‘Longbow’ radar, though all will be fitted with the Target Acquisition Designation Sight (TADS) and Pilot Night Vision Sensors (PNVS).

The IAF configuration is 99 per cent similar to the US Army configuration with very minor changes such as proposed dual mode landing lights for Night Vision Goggle (NVG) operation and different radios and datalinks. The Integrated Electronic Technical Manual (IETM) and operator manual will be the same as issued by the US government.

The high reliability of AH-64E's was highlighted by the fact that during the entire flight trials in India, the only spare used was an adhesive bond on ‘trim tab’ for one of the composite main rotor blades - the onboard diagnostics algorithm is one of the finest - all these make sure that the Apaches can execute an attack within 30 seconds of an alert (The AN/APG-78 is capable of simultaneously tracking up to 128 targets and engaging up to 16 at once, an attack can be initiated within 30 seconds).

All this at a price tag of $1.4 Billion.

 

[samlove]

The IAF will have 12 out of 22 helicopters fitted with the ‘Longbow’ radar, though all will be fitted with the Target Acquisition Designation Sight (TADS) and Pilot Night Vision Sensors (PNVS).

why only 12 are fitted with long bow radar

 

[Hindustani78]

Updated: September 22, 2015 18:01 IST
Cabinet clears $2.5-billion deal for Boeing’s Apache and Chinook helicopters - The Hindu

The deal, pending since 2013 over cost negotiations, comes just ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s U.S. visit.
Ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s visit to the U.S., the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) on Tuesday cleared a multi-billion dollar deal for 22 Apache attack helicopters and 15 Chinook heavy-lift choppers with American aviation giant Boeing.

“The deal for Apache and Chinook [helicopters] has been cleared,” government sources said.

The CCS met after a Cabinet meeting, the sources said.

Many in the defence sector had expected the deal, valued to be over $2.5 billion and pending since 2013 following finalisation of cost negotiations, to be signed during the visit of U.S. Defence Secretary Ashton Carter in June this year.

The deal for Apache is “a hybrid one”, with one contract to be signed with Boeing for the helicopter and the other with the U.S. government for its weapons, radars and electronic warfare suites.

The U.S. has been pushing for this contract as it will further bolster American presence in the burgeoning defence market of India.

American companies have over the last decade bagged defence contracts from India worth around $10 billion, including for aircraft like P-8I maritime surveillance planes, C-130J Super Hercules and C-17 Globemaster-III in the transport category.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi will leave for the U.S. on Wednesday to attend the U.N. General Assembly.

The helicopter deal had survived over 10 price extensions from the American side with the last one being for a month as desired by India.

The contract will have clauses to place follow-on orders for 11 more Apaches and four extra Chinooks.

Both platforms, which have been in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq, had beaten off competition from Russia, which had offered its Mi-28N Night Hunter and Mi-26 heavy-lift copters.

The 22 Apache AH 64D Longbow helicopters are one of the most advanced multi-role combat helicopters, featuring all-weather and night fighting features, ability to track up to 128 targets in less than a minute and engage with 16, besides stealth characteristics, advanced sensors and beyond visual range missiles.

India will also be acquiring Hellfire missiles and rockets.

 

[Ind4Ever]

Battle of the legendary helicopters

APACHE LONGBOW VS AH1Z

It's not easy to compare two attack choppers. Having said that if we have to do it then we should. So here we go.

Aspects of comparison between Apache and AH1Z

1 Take off weight

2 useful load

3 Radar

4 Engine

5 weapons

1 Take off weight .
Both aircraft doing fairly well with above 8000 kg. But Apache can lift off with mind-boggling crazy load of worth 10,433 kg against Just 8, 390 kg of AH1Z . Differences are not even comparable. Huge advantage for Apache

2) Useful Load :Very important aspect. As no one cares about total weight of an attack chopper but what it can carry to destroy it's targets. And we all know operating an weapon system like these have to to more economical.
AH1z has empty weight of around 5,580kg with maximum take of weight of 8,390 kg. Which means this copter can carry weapon load of 2,620 kg.

This is where the brut strength of Apache can be felt. With empty weight of 5,165kg it's strong and rigid airframe
allows it to carry max take off weight of massive 10,433 kg. So in terms of efficiency in carrying out deadly missions Apache wins like a champ with no much of a hassles against its counterparts.

3) Radar : This is very important aspect of modern day warfare. An radar mounted on these attack choppers will give massive advantage against its enemies weapon system and for carrying out its task with ease.
It's A fire-control radar (FCR) is a radar that is designed specifically to provide information (mainly target azimuth, elevation, range and velocity) to a fire-control system in order to calculate a firing solution (i.e., information on how to direct weapons such that they hit the target(s)). A typical radar emits a narrow, intense beam of radio waves to ensure accurate tracking information and to minimize the chance of losing track of the target. Some modern radars have a track-while-scan capability, enabling them to function simultaneously as both fire-control radar and search radar. This works either by having the radar switch between sweeping the search sector and sending directed pulses at the target to be tracked, or by using a phased-array antenna to generate multiple simultaneous radar beams that both search and track. Lockheed Martin / Northrop Grumman AN/APG-78 Longbow fire-control radar[280] (Note: can only be mounted on the AH-64D/E)

So hands down victory goes to Apache

4)Engine : Power and reliability of an engine is the most important aspect for any war machines that to for an helicopters it's even more important.

Apache Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-701C (for AH-64A/D from 1990), 1,890 shp (1,409 kW)] Rotor systems: 4 blade main rotor,4 blade tail rotor in non-orthogonal alignment

AH1Z : Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-401C turboshaft, 1,800 shp (1,340 kW) each
Rotor systems: 4 blades on main rotor, 4 blades on tail rotor

I don't think there is clear winner here. But since Apache helicopters has more advanced engine optimization for more range and load carrying capacity than AH1Z.

5)Last but not least. ARMAMENT :

Weapon delivery systems and variety of different types of weapons are necessary for today's high intensive warfare.

AH1z has Armament Guns: 1 x 20 mm (0.787in) M197 3-barreled gatling cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 round ammo capacity)

Where as Apache helicopters standout with very impressive massive fire power with Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) M230 Chain Gun with 1,200 rounds

So with 30 mm guns and capacity to carry 1200 rounds it's a clear winner with massive 40% more fire power as far as gun system is concerned

b) Missiles and rocket pods :

Apache : Four pylon stations on the stub wings. Longbows also have a station on each wingtip for an AIM-92 Stinger twin missile pack.

Rockets: Hydra 70 mm, and CRV7 70 mm air-to-ground rockets Missiles: Typically AGM-114 Hellfire variants; AIM-92 Stinger may also be carried.

AH1z : Up to 6 pylon stations on stub wing
Rockets: 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 or APKWS II[33] rockets – Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers
Missiles:
AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles – 1 mounted on each wing tip station (total of 2)
AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missiles – Up to 16 missiles mounted in four 4-round M272 missile launchers, two on each wing.
Over all both doing fairly well even when AH1Z can carry AIM 9 sidewinder as an advantage but the operational need for an ground attack role capacity and capabilities are one sided towards Apache with massive 1200- 30 mm rounds and with 2- 70 mm rocket pods + 8 AGM-114 Hellfire variants; (Note AIM-92 Stinger may also be carried (2 numbers) on its wing tip stations too) .

That's whole new level of helicopter warfare. I don't think comparing each sensors are necessary as Apache with its multiple mode overall capabilities will have land sliding victory over any thing in its category till date.
To be precise

So these above comparisons gives a huge victory for Apache. This war machine now will give Indian armed forces ground breaking advantage in Asian terrains with desserts, jungle and mountains. IAF deserves such a capability which was long over due. 22 Apache been ordered today by Government of India will go to Indian Airforce. Another 39 or more is been planned for Indian Army Aviation Corp .

With Indigenously developed Light combat aircraft looks promising. APACHE LCH combo will be our spear head in defense and much needed CSD

Massive respect for Modi ji government! RESPECT... For those who created this beast called Apache Longbow!!!

 

[Abingdonboy]

why only 12 are fitted with long bow radar

They are designed to operate in a net centric environment wherein the Apaches equipped with longbow can designate and disseminate information to other apaches as well as to other friendly units via data link. So in a flight of 4, 2 would be equipped with longbow to forgive relevant information for the rest of the flight.

 

[Ind4Ever]

As far as the price tag is concerned - IAF deal includes 50 T700-GE-701D engines, 12 AN/APG-78 Fire Control Radars, 12 AN/APR-48A Radar Frequency Interferometers, 812 AGM-114L-3 HELLFIRE LONGBOW missiles, 542 AGM-114R-3 HELLFIRE II missiles, 245 STINGER Block I-92H missiles, and 23 Modernized Target Acquisition Designation Sight/Pilot Night Vision Sensors, rockets, training and dummy missiles, 30 mm ammunition, transponders and simulators.

Massive respect for these details brother.
But are you sure about the engine.
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-701 turboshafts, 1,690 shp (1,260 kW) [upgraded to T700-GE-701C (for AH-64A/D from 1990), 1,890 shp (1,409 kW)]

Why we didn't go for upgraded 701c version?

The IAF will have 12 out of 22 helicopters fitted with the ‘Longbow’ radar, though all will be fitted with the Target Acquisition Designation Sight (TADS) and Pilot Night Vision Sensors (PNVS)

What about rest 10? Without radar and sensors alone?

The IAF configuration is 99 per cent similar to the US Army configuration with very minor changes such as proposed dual mode landing lights for Night Vision Goggle (NVG) operation and different radios and datalinks. The Integrated Electronic Technical Manual (IETM) and operator manual will be the same as issued by the US government.

The high reliability of AH-64E's was highlighted by the fact that during the entire flight trials in India, the only spare used was an adhesive bond on ‘trim tab’ for one of the composite main rotor blades - the onboard diagnostics algorithm is one of the finest - all these make sure that the Apaches can execute an attack within 30 seconds of an alert (The AN/APG-78 is capable of simultaneously tracking up to 128 targets and engaging up to 16 at once, an attack can be initiated within 30 seconds).

All this at a price tag of $1.4 Billion.

Fabulous deal. Hope Army also get these beast.

 

[samlove]

They are designed to operate in a net centric environment wherein the Apaches equipped with longbow can designate and disseminate information to other apaches as well as to other friendly units via data link. So in a flight of 4, 2 would be equipped with longbow to forgive relevant information for the rest of the flight.

still if when we are spending tht much why not get these radar for all, never understood what our forces think when they buying these things , so lets hope for thr best

 

[ultron]

always soon yawn

 

[Chanakya's_Chant]

Why we didn't go for upgraded 701c version?

I guess you missed the 'D' in my post - '701D' is the upgraded version of '701C' and has an engine power of 1,994 shp (1,487 kW) against 1,890 shp (1,409 kW) of '701C'.

The Block III features an upgraded transmission to cater for the increased thrust (3,400 shp) of the twin T700-GE-701D engines which are now fitted with an enhanced digital engine control unit. The Block III is faster by 28 kmph (combat speed of 303 kmph) as result of improved thrust, composite main rotor blades and better aerodynamics. Block III is able to hover at 6,000 feet at a temperature of 35 degrees centigrade with a payload of 1.5 tonne. The older versions were only capable of hover at 4,000 feet with lesser payload at the same temperature.It uses a greater proportion of composites (up to 30 per cent), with the main rotor blades and spars, equipment fairings and tail stabiliser made entirely of composites.

What about rest 10? Without radar and sensors alone?

I am not sure of that either - It seems that IAF wants only one squadron with Longbow configuration.

always soon yawn

The thread was merged - the deal has been cleared and will be signed on PM's visit to US later this month - Modi signs off on Boeing military helicopter deal before U.S. trip | Reuters

 

[Hindustani78]

 

[nik22]

Patience of USA paid off.

BTW, I hope IAF take care of these like their babies. That too like a single child. No crash or even scratch please in peacetime.
Don't forget to do Coconut break ceremony , Nanaz, wahe Guru Ji da path, mata rani ki Chunri, Idol of Ganesh Ji on dashboard. Don't take any chance .
(Jeez the list got really long)
From my side:
Om Shri Ganeshay Namah!!