Apache-Chinook choppers deal to be signed soon

[SRP]

Cabinet clears $2.5 billion deal for Boeing military choppers| Reuters

 

[Ind4Ever]

Special forces ops inside china and pakistan.....should i start laughing or tell you to grow a bit, first check wether your balls are still in place.

It's not we want to do it. It's all about having capabilities if we want to do it !!! Huge difference between both. End of the day we will have whole new force level of choppers from new utility helicopters from Russia (200+200 follow on) + 22 new heavy attack and 15 heavy lifting helicopters to ingenuous LCH, Dhruv and Rudra helicopters which will go beyond 600 over all. That's massive capabilities for any nation.

Any one aware of time line?

 

[Imran Khan]

as expected before modi visit and price hike

 

[Styx]

someone do a proper vs comparison for these new Indian/Pakistani toys please

@Chanakya's_Chant @MilSpec @others

 

[Imran Khan]

they are almost near but speed and load super cobra is greater

 

[Ind4Ever]

someone do a proper vs comparison for these new Indian/Pakistani toys please
View attachment 259269

@Chanakya's_Chant @MilSpec @others

It's are easy to compare two attack choppers. Having said that if we have to do it then we should. So here we go.

Aspects of comparison between Apache and AH1Z

1 Take off weight

2 useful load

3 Radar

4 Engine

5 weapons

1 Take off weight .
Both aircraft doing fairly well with above 8000 kg. But Apache can lift off with mind-boggling crazy load of worth 10,433 kg against Just 8, 390 kg of AH1Z . Differences are not even comparable. Huge advantage for Apache

2) Useful Load : Now this very important aspect. As no one cares about total weight of an attack chopper but what it can carry to destroy it's targets. And we all know operating an weapon system like these have to to more economical.
AH1z has empty weight of around 5,580kg with maximum take of weight of 8,390 kg. Which means this copter can carry weapon load of 2,620 kg.

This is where the brut strength of Apache can be felt. With empty weight of 5,165kg it's strong and rigid airframe
allows it to carry max take off weight of massive 10,433 kg. So in terms of efficiency in carrying out deadly missions Apache wins like a champ with no much of a hassles against its counterparts.

3) Radar : This is very important aspect of modern day warfare. An radar mounted on these attack choppers will give massive advantage against its enemies weapon system and for carrying out its task with ease.
It's A fire-control radar (FCR) is a radar that is designed specifically to provide information (mainly target azimuth, elevation, range and velocity) to a fire-control system in order to calculate a firing solution (i.e., information on how to direct weapons such that they hit the target(s)). A typical radar emits a narrow, intense beam of radio waves to ensure accurate tracking information and to minimize the chance of losing track of the target. Some modern radars have a track-while-scan capability, enabling them to function simultaneously as both fire-control radar and search radar. This works either by having the radar switch between sweeping the search sector and sending directed pulses at the target to be tracked, or by using a phased-array antenna to generate multiple simultaneous radar beams that both search and track. Lockheed Martin / Northrop Grumman AN/APG-78 Longbow fire-control radar[280] (Note: can only be mounted on the AH-64D/E)

So hands down victory goes to Apache

4)Engine : Power and reliability of an engine is the most important aspect for any war machines that to for an helicopters it's even more important.

Apache Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-701C (for AH-64A/D from 1990), 1,890 shp (1,409 kW)] Rotor systems: 4 blade main rotor,4 blade tail rotor in non-orthogonal alignment

AH1Z : Powerplant: 2 × General Electric T700-GE-401C turboshaft, 1,800 shp (1,340 kW) each
Rotor systems: 4 blades on main rotor, 4 blades on tail rotor

I don't think there is clear winner here. But since Apache helicopters has more advanced engine optimization for more range and load carrying capacity than AH1Z.

5)Last but not least. ARMAMENT :

Weapon delivery systems and variety of different types of weapons are necessary for today's high intensive warfare.

AH1z has Armament Guns: 1 x 20 mm (0.787in) M197 3-barreled gatling cannon in the A/A49E-7 turret (750 round ammo capacity)

Where as Apache helicopters standout with very impressive massive fire power with Guns: 1× 30 mm (1.18 in) M230 Chain Gun with 1,200 rounds

So with 30 mm guns and capacity to carry 1200 rounds it's a clear winner with massive 40% more fire power as far as gun system is concerned

b) Missiles and rocket pods :

Apache : Four pylon stations on the stub wings. Longbows also have a station on each wingtip for an AIM-92 Stinger twin missile pack.

Rockets: Hydra 70 mm, and CRV7 70 mm air-to-ground rockets Missiles: Typically AGM-114 Hellfire variants; AIM-92 Stinger may also be carried.

AH1z : Up to 6 pylon stations on stub wing
Rockets: 2.75 in (70 mm) Hydra 70 or APKWS II[33] rockets – Mounted in LAU-68C/A (7 shot) or LAU-61D/A (19 shot) launchers
Missiles:
AIM-9 Sidewinder air-to-air missiles – 1 mounted on each wing tip station (total of 2)
AGM-114 Hellfire air-to-surface missiles – Up to 16 missiles mounted in four 4-round M272 missile launchers, two on each wing.
Over all both doing fairly well even when AH1Z can carry AIM 9 sidewinder as an advantage but the operational need for an ground attack role capacity and capabilities are one sided towards Apache with massive 1200- 30 mm rounds and with 2- 70 mm rocket pods + 8 AGM-114 Hellfire variants; (Note AIM-92 Stinger may also be carried (2 numbers) on its wing tip stations too) .

That's whole new level of helicopter warfare. I don't think comparing each sensors are necessary as Apache with its multiple mode overall capabilities will have land sliding victory over any thing in its category till date.
To be precise

So these above comparisons gives a huge victory for Apache. This war machine now will give Indian armed forces ground breaking advantage in Asian terrains with desserts, jungle and mountains. IAF deserves such a capability which was long over due. 22 Apache been ordered today by Government of India will go to Indian Airforce. Another 39 or more is been planned for Indian Army Aviation Corp .

With Indigenously developed Light combat aircraft looks promising. APACHE LCH combo will be our spear head in defense and much needed CSD

Massive respect for Modi ji government! RESPECT... For those who created this beast called Apache Longbow!!! @AUSTERLITZ give my bonus back

 

[indianBong]

new utility helicopters

Which ones from russia???

 

[Ind4Ever]

Which ones from russia???

Ka 226T light utility helicopters . Russia and reliance to make 400 under make in India initiatives

 

[Styx]

From space battle forum . Very interesting comparison indeed.

AH-64 all the way. It has

- Mast mounted Longbow radar with both air and ground search mode capability. The AH-1 has no radar whatsoever. The Apache will see it first from much further way.

- 30 mm cannon vs the Ah-1Zs 20 mm. The Apaches cannon has superior range and hitting power. The Apache is also armored in some locations against upto 23 mm hits so the AH-1Zs cannons effectiveness is even more drastically reduced.

- Can carry 4x Stinger missiles. While the Ah-1 can carry them as well the wiki makes no mention of the Ah-1Z version being equipped to do so. This is effectively an "I WIN" button for the Apache pilot.

- Not to mention the Apache can use the radar guided version of the Hellfire missile. It has known secondary ability to hit aerial targets such as slow moving aircraft and helicopters. The Commanche is stuck with the old laser guided version intended for anti tank use only.

- Overall the Apache is lot more bigger and durable. It has two engines instead of one and both are armored. The Ah-1Z has only one single engine with less armor protection.

Am sure how true these are

unit costs are listed as 31 million for the AH-1Z vs 65 million for the AH-64D (2010-11 prices), is it the radar alone that makes it twice as costly ?

 

[[Bregs]]

as expected before modi visit and price hike

No price hike in this deal as prices have been frozen since past 3 yrs because Boeing wanted this deal at any cost to edge out Russians from Indian markets

 

[NKVD]

NEW DELHI: Ahead of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's visit to the US, the Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) today cleared a multi-billion dollar deal for 22 Apache attack helicopters and 15 Chinook heavy-lift choppers with American aviation giant Boeing.

"The deal for Apache and Chinook (helicopters) has been cleared," government sources said.

The CCS met after a Cabinet meeting, they said.

Many in the defence sector had expected the deal, valued to be over $2.5 billion and pending since 2013 following finalisation of cost negotiations, to be signed during the visit of US Defence SecretaryAshton Carter in June this year.

The deal for Apache is "a hybrid one", with one contract to be signed with Boeing for the helicopter and the other with the US government for its weapons, radars and electronic warfare suites.









The US has been pushing for this contract as it will further bolster American presence in the burgeoning defence market of India.
American companies have over the last decade bagged defence contracts from India worth around USD 10 billion, including for aircraft like P-8I maritime surveillance planes, C-130J 'Super Hercules' and C-17 Globemaster-III in the transport category.

Prime Minister Narendra Modi will leave for the US tomorrow to attend the UN General Assembly.

The helicopter deal had survived over 10 price extensions from the American side with the last one being for a month as desired by India.

The contract will have clauses to place follow-on orders for 11 more Apaches and four extra Chinooks.

Both platforms, which have been in combat in Afghanistan and Iraq, had beaten off competition from Russia, which had offered its Mi-28N Night Hunter and Mi-26 heavy-lift copters.







The 22 Apache AH 64D Longbow helicopters are one of the most advanced multi-role combat helicopters, featuring all-weather and night fighting features, ability to track upto 128 targets in less than a minute and engage with 16, besides stealth characteristics, advanced sensors and beyond visual range missiles.
India will also be acquiring Hellfire missiles and rockets.

Great

39 More to come for Army aviation Corps

 

[Ind4Ever]

unit costs are listed as 31 million for the AH-1Z vs 65 million for the AH-64D (2010-11 prices), is it the radar alone that makes it twice as costly ?

May be. Apache is very reliable platform and very superior airframe. AH1z also good but it's quite easy to pick Apache between these two

 

[Donatello]

From space battle forum . Very interesting comparison indeed.

AH-64 all the way. It has

- Mast mounted Longbow radar with both air and ground search mode capability. The AH-1 has no radar whatsoever. The Apache will see it first from much further way.

- 30 mm cannon vs the Ah-1Zs 20 mm. The Apaches cannon has superior range and hitting power. The Apache is also armored in some locations against upto 23 mm hits so the AH-1Zs cannons effectiveness is even more drastically reduced.

- Can carry 4x Stinger missiles. While the Ah-1 can carry them as well the wiki makes no mention of the Ah-1Z version being equipped to do so. This is effectively an "I WIN" button for the Apache pilot.

- Not to mention the Apache can use the radar guided version of the Hellfire missile. It has known secondary ability to hit aerial targets such as slow moving aircraft and helicopters. The Commanche is stuck with the old laser guided version intended for anti tank use only.

- Overall the Apache is lot more bigger and durable. It has two engines instead of one and both are armored. The Ah-1Z has only one single engine with less armor protection.

Am sure how true these are

AH-1Z has only one engine?

and some equally retarded gave this guy a positive rating......

LMAO.

 

[Ind4Ever]

AH-1Z has only one engine?

and some equally retarded gave this guy a positive rating......

LMAO.

It's of 2010 post from a different forum.

 

[NKVD]

is it the radar alone that makes it twice as costly ?

Yes The AH-64D Apache Longbow, is equipped with a glass cockpit and advanced sensors, the most noticeable of which being the AN/APG-78 Longbow millimeter-wavefire-control radar (FCR) target acquisition system and the Radar Frequency Interferometer (RFI), housed in a dome located above the main rotor The radome's raised position enables targets detection while the helicopter is behind obstacles (e.g. terrain, trees or buildings). The AN/APG-78 is capable of simultaneously tracking up to 128 targets and engaging up to 16 at once, an attack can be initiated within 30 seconds

A radio modem integrated with the sensor suite allows data to be shared with ground units and other Apaches; allowing them to fire on targets detected by a single helicopter.