Analysis: Will India’s S-400 missiles checkmate Pakistan?

[Hamza913]

Really that's All official Figures remember Your Army did not Excepted the Bodies of your own Soldiers for years and was in denial that it Was Mujaheeds who took Kargil heights

Musharraf suppressed Facts From Pakistani Public Like he Hide Kargil Plan From then Govt in rule & PM Sharif

Listen to what Nawaz sharif Said
However, he said, a “naive military adventurer, Gen Musharraf,” launched the operation without proper planning on May 8, 1999 causing loss of life of 3,000 officers and Jawans of the Northern Light Infantry (NLI) and Kashmiri Mujahideen, while India suffered loss of 474 soldiers.

http://www.dawn.com/news/204768/pml-n-issues-white-paper-on-kargil-war


Here what Former federal minister Lt-Gen (retd) Abdul Majeed Malik, who is an eyewitness to major happenings that took place during the tenure of the second Nawaz Sharif government, says the Kargil operation of Pervez Musharraf was badly conceived, faultily executed and totally unneeded.


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/kargil-w...claims-gen-majeed-malik.218995/#ixzz46NyDIKCl
https://defence.pk/threads/kargil-war-was-a-total-disaster-claims-gen-majeed-malik.218995/

I am pretty sure Nawaz Sharif would obviously love to bad mouth Musharraf after what happened to him. Same goes for Sharif's allies.

Anyway, those statistics are impossible. I know SEVERAL people who have fought in Kargil, they didn't comeback telling me they got slaughtered, neither did they say Pakistan left behind so many soldiers (some piece of Indian propaganda that you guys love to spew). Pretty sure they are better sources than anything you can pull out of your rear.

Not only that, but in mountain warfare the ones holding the mountain have the upper hand. We could not have suffered such high casualties, impossible. Even if India magically did so, then India would have been able to take back Kargil with relative ease as Pakistan had 5,000 troops in Kargil. 3,000 would be 60% of them gone. AKA, impossible.

India tried to expand the conflict, which was met by Pakistan threatening nuclear retaliation. Since expanding the conflict seemed unlikely to work, India went to the US and the international community to pressure Pakistan into leaving Kargil.

PAF was not involved for any reason? I dont believe they wanted to do some favor on IAF...do you?.......what could be the reason? now that Mushy has openly accepted the responsibility of Kargil mis-adventure why didn't he get his air force in action?

Because Pakistan did not wish to unnecessarily expand the conflict. The troops did A okay without the PAF, no need to drag them in.

 

[Daghalodi]

If we are running hypothetical scenarios which have no precedent, then why stop here.

If China is on Pakistan's side providing weapons and intel, then why can't US and Russians be on Indian side providing their most advance weapons to India ?

China has its strategic interests and helps Pakistan but I think this war is for Pakistan alone. China or no China ,Pakistan can stand it's ground against India and the way the arms race is getting out of hand in this sub continent I think war is inevitable.

 

[Photon]

I am pretty sure Nawaz Sharif would obviously love to bad mouth Musharraf after what happened to him. Same goes for Sharif's allies.

Anyway, those statistics are impossible. I know SEVERAL people who have fought in Kargil, they didn't comeback telling me they got slaughtered, neither did they say Pakistan left behind so many soldiers (some piece of Indian propaganda that you guys love to spew). Pretty sure they are better sources than anything you can pull out of your rear.

Not only that, but in mountain warfare the ones holding the mountain have the upper hand. We could not have suffered such high casualties, impossible. Even if India magically did so, then India would have been able to take back Kargil with relative ease as Pakistan had 5,000 troops in Kargil. 3,000 would be 60% of them gone. AKA, impossible.

India tried to expand the conflict, which was met by Pakistan threatening nuclear retaliation. Since expanding the conflict seemed unlikely to work, India went to the US and the international community to pressure Pakistan into leaving Kargil.



Because Pakistan did not wish to unnecessarily expand the conflict. The troops did A okay without the PAF, no need to drag them in.

When did India go to US and which person from Indian government went to US?

It was only Pakistani prime minster who dropped in 4th of July uninvited, despite Americans asking him not to come. Because he was seeking face saving exit for his armies, who were being beaten in Kargil.

 

[Hamza913]

When did India go to US and which person from Indian government went to US?

It was only Pakistani prime minster who dropped in 4th of July uninvited, despite Americans asking him not to come.

India asked the international community to help out and so did Nawaz Sharif.

 

[weqi]

PATROIT

If we are running hypothetical scenarios which have no precedent, then why stop here.

If China is on Pakistan's side providing weapons and intel, then why can't US and Russians be on Indian side providing their most advance weapons to India ?

atleaset us is not such a fool provide advanced patrio,f-22,f-35,b-2 to india just to counter pakistan at a cost of technology leaks to russia

When did India go to US and which person from Indian government went to US?

It was only Pakistani prime minster who dropped in 4th of July uninvited, despite Americans asking him not to come. Because he was seeking face saving exit for his armies, who were being beaten in Kargil.

who downed your nachkita singh's aircraft and where hurry up and answere and which weapon was used you better explain

 

[Photon]

India asked the international community to help out and so did Nawaz Sharif.

No, India did not, India made its stand clear from beginning it self, It will not stop the war till each and every soldier is gone from Indian side of LOC.

It was only Pakistani generals and politicians running pillar to post from Saudi Arabia to China to America, trying desperately to get face saving exit from Kargil, without having to declaring to its populace, that they have lost another war against India.

 

[Hamza913]

No, India did not, India made its stand clear from beginning it self, It will not stop the war till each and every soldier is gone from Indian side of LOC.

It was only Pakistani generals and politicians running pillar to post from Saudi Arabia to China to America, trying desperately to get face saving exit from Kargil, without having to declaring to its populace, that they have lost another war against India.

Lost? Is keeping mountains for months on end whilst suffering significantly less casualties then your enemy considered losing? Is being outnumbered by your enemies 6:1 and lacking air support yet still giving them a hard time considered losing?

If you consider that an Indian victory, I would hate (or rather, love) to see what you consider and Indian defeat.

 

[T-72M1]

atleaset us is not such a fool provide advanced patrio,f-22,f-35,b-2 to india just to counter pakistan at a cost of technology leaks to russia

forget India, a non ally, the US congress blocked F-22 sales to Israel and Japan, there is no chance they will ever sell B-2s to anyone either but F-35s were offered to India:

U.S. open to selling F-35 jet fighters to India

I think they are more concerned with Pakistan pilfering their tech to China than India might to Russia:

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories4225_Boeing_Offers_to_Build_F-18_Super_Hornet_in_India.htm

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com...e-f-16-jets-in-india/articleshow/51037000.cms

then there was also this on offer for the MMRCA:

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/not-your-fathers-f-16-take-a-tour-of-the-f-16in-super-1676745840

 

[Photon]

PATROIT


atleaset us is not such a fool provide advanced patrio,f-22,f-35,b-2 to india just to counter pakistan at a cost of technology leaks to russia



who downed your nachkita singh's aircraft and where hurry up and answere and which weapon was used you better explain

Ya well being of Pakistani origin , it is not up to you to decide.

Flt lt Nachiketas Mig 27 was downed due to engine flame out due ingestion of smoke from rocket burst.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

If we are running hypothetical scenarios which have no precedent, then why stop here.

If China is on Pakistan's side providing weapons and intel, then why can't US and Russians be on Indian side providing their most advance weapons to India ?

Indians already are. For obvious reasons the west and Russia are very pro indian and have given india abundant access to their most advanced weapons systems. But as China has virtually caught up with the west and Russia in advanced weapons production and is all set to become the most advanced and powerful nation ever known to mankind (with no other nation being in anyway comparable) they can balance this out by providing EVERYTHING Pakistan needs to defend itself against an enemy 8 times it's size.

 

[Stephen Cohen]

@T-72M1 @Photon

Hello mates ; Regarding India's SECRET purchases from Russia
Read this news -- It is slightly old -- I was remembering what the Russian Minister had said

Took me a while to search it out

An excerpt from

http://www.telegraphindia.com/1130209/jsp/nation/story_16541680.jsp#.VySXn9R97IU

Komardin said that unlike its competitors, Russia did not want to publicise its defence deals with India “because we do not believe in disclosing Indian national secrets”.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Russia has always been our Best friend giving us a lot of Secret and High tech goodies

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

When did India go to US and which person from Indian government went to US?

It was only Pakistani prime minster who dropped in 4th of July uninvited, despite Americans asking him not to come. Because he was seeking face saving exit for his armies, who were being beaten in Kargil.

Nawaz Sharif went to America to get them to control the Pakistani generals/military. He went under the guise of stopping the Kargil war. THAT is the precise reason why General Musharraf over threw him the following winter.

 

[Ind4Ever]

I don't think Pakistan can achieve parity against India. In future Indian defense deals gonna be massive and lots more indigenous than of today. Which means India can hold its foot for longer periods than today. S400 is surely a threat to both Pakistan and China. Same goes for India as Chinese orders massive numbers. Hope India will get partnering with s500 and won't be given to China. Indian SAM systems are maturing with new extended range Mr Sam Barak 8 pegs at 90+ km...

 

[Photon]

Lost? Is keeping mountains for months on end whilst suffering significantly less casualties then your enemy considered losing? Is being outnumbered by your enemies 6:1 and lacking air support yet still giving them a hard time considered losing?

If you consider that an Indian victory, I would hate (or rather, love) to see what you consider and Indian defeat.

Yes lost, because Pakistan started with capturing 140 unmanned peaks, at the end of war , they are left with one.

This is despite the fact Pakistan had massive altitude advantage, In mountain warfare conventional logic mandates a ratio of 9:1.

Afterall Pakistan army has never been able to displace Indian soldiers from Siachen and here India only has relatively minor altitude advantage.

There are at least some 6 casualty figures from Pakistan. Simple conclusion Pakistani are not reliable, when it comes to showing their losses.

We would rather trust US state department estimate of casualties on both sides 527 for India and 750 for Pakistan.

 

[Hamza913]

Yes lost, because Pakistan started with capturing 140 unmanned peaks, at the end of war , they are left with one.

This is despite the fact Pakistan had massive altitude advantage, In mountain warfare conventional logic mandates a ratio of 9:1.

Afterall Pakistan army has never been able to displace Indian soldiers from Siachen and here India only has relatively minor altitude advantage.

There are at least some 6 casualty figures from Pakistan. Simple conclusion Pakistani are not reliable, when it comes to showing their losses.

We would rather trust US state department estimate of casualties on both sides 527 for India and 750 for Pakistan.

The US said Pakistan suffered 300-400 casualties and that India suffered 500. Only India says 700.

As for the Siachen, that is a MUCH harder terrain to fight in. Besides, India hasn't been able to displace Pakistani troops in the Siachen either.