Analysis of the Pakistan Navy 1971 performance by the Indian Navy

[jaibi]

@Joe Shearer;
Joe; another thing just crossed my mind. If you are able to- then please record Adm MKR's reminisences. It is easy enought to do and lends another value to the information.
I've been doing this as a personal passion whenever I'm able to in India; mainly with Musicians and various other performers (since that combines a number of my passions/hobbies). Over the years; I have been able to accumulate a substantial amount of audio and video footage for posterity. I think of it as a "Talking History" project. Please do it; if you have'nt started.

I second that, please.

and i remember reading biography of admiral iftikhar sirohey in which he mentioned that he was the CO of alamgir at that time and the radar made contact with the missile boats, he informed NHQ of this and they responded by saying that he was trying to spread rumors and that to shut up and not to lower the morale of men

If you haven't gone through it then I'd suggest that you please do it is quite informative and unique in a sense that we get to know of what our advasery at the time thought of us. I really wish to bring up the attitude of the people and the government towards our Navy.

and i remember reading biography of admiral iftikhar sirohey in which he mentioned that he was the CO of alamgir at that time and the radar made contact with the missile boats, he informed NHQ of this and they responded by saying that he was trying to spread rumors and that to shut up and not to lower the morale of men

Can you please tell me the name of the book I'd love to get.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer, thank you kindly for that offer; it will be an honor. But did I get the facts correct in the posts?
I would love to do that. I had a fleeting meeting with him last in 1995 or thereabouts on the side-lines of a seminar where he was keynote speaker. Does he still write? I don't mean just books. It will great to hear him; he served with members of my family.
My last meeting(s) with another thinking Admiral AKC were in Delhi in 1998. We spoke about a variety of topics.

Good. That's fixed then, and if our friend can wangle a tourist visa for around the same time, we can be quite a little party.

The old man is Keeping himself busy with his society, and has been travelling to Japan and to China for seminars, ill-health notwithstanding.

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He is into a book now, but I am not very sure what it is about. In the 80s, he was involved with the Advanced Technology Vehicle, it might be about that.

 

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer;
Joe; another thing just crossed my mind. If you are able to- then please record Adm MKR's reminisences. It is easy enought to do and lends another value to the information.
I've been doing this as a personal passion whenever I'm able to in India; mainly with Musicians and various other performers (since that combines a number of my passions/hobbies). Over the years; I have been able to accumulate a substantial amount of audio and video footage for posterity. I think of it as a "Talking History" project. Please do it; if you have'nt started.


Addendum: Joe if you are able to; then please quiz MKR about the RIN presence in Dunkirk. There were Indians who served in the "Little Fleet" that carried out most of the evacuation. I met two people who were there but overlooked digging into that aspect. Now its too late. A TV professional I know in India has been working on a personal project on Dunkirk (which I got to know of only recently); but I was unable to help much. MKR knows something about it. Will appreciate all the help that you can extend.

Cap'n, now that you jogged my memory, MKR is doing something loosely memoirish. I wish he would let me write it; his account of how Vikrant went into port in Bandar Abbas is fascinating. So, too, his ribald stories of his RN (not RIN!) days, and how two midshipmen made Frazer of North Cape change his uniform, what a Guardee means when he keeps his hat on at the breakfast table, how he pranged an Alize in the Med. but to the vast mirth of his family, managed to stay out of the unpleasant wet stuff, close encounters with Sam (a sailor called 'Sweetie' by a senior general tends to get a little nervous), some (very little) of what happened after the balloon went up in 71, what Gorshkov told him and the other IN officers during his visits to Vizag, stuff like that.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Cap'n, now that you jogged my memory, MKR is doing something loosely memoirish. I wish he would let me write it; his account of how Vikrant went into port in Bandar Abbas is fascinating. So, too, his ribald stories of his RN (not RIN!) days, and how two midshipmen made Frazer of North Cape change his uniform, what a Guardee means when he keeps his hat on at the breakfast table, how he pranged an Alize in the Med. but to the vast mirth of his family, managed to stay out of the unpleasant wet stuff, close encounters with Sam (a sailor called 'Sweetie' by a senior general tends to get a little nervous), some (very little) of what happened after the balloon went up in 71, what Gorshkov told him and the other IN officers during his visits to Vizag, stuff like that.

@Joe Shearer;
All of that sounds great. It will be fascinating to read/hear such stuff. Some of that kind of stories do make it into QD. But a lot is still missing.
Last year I had a meeting with Adm JGN. He had some amusing stories that made it into the net. Sadly he is preoccupied with some family affairs, hence he's put his quill down for some time.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

Joe, I do admire the Admiral's choice of a variety of headgear!

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe, I do admire the Admiral's choice of a variety of headgear!

He's got about twelve of them, mementoes of ships or formations. He was Fleet Commander, East, later FOC-in-C East, besides commanding the Alize squadron, a Hunt class destroyer squadron, then the Leanders, flying his flag in Brahmaputra, then Vikrant herself, so he picked up a lot of these.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

He's got about twelve of them, mementoes of ships or formations. He was Fleet Commander, East, later FOC-in-C East, besides commanding the Alize squadron, a Hunt class destroyer squadron, then the Leanders, flying his flag in Brahmaputra, then Vikrant herself, so he picked up a lot of these.

Yes of course; but the one in the picture. Is that Naval Pattern? Or something from Adm. Gorshkov?

 

[Joe Shearer]

Yes of course; but the one in the picture. Is that Naval Pattern? Or something from Adm. Gorshkov?

It's Yank, if I remember correctly. An exchange with some gigantic US CVN which could have run over poor little Vikrant and not known something was wrong.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

It's Yank, if I remember correctly. An exchange with some gigantic US CVN which could have run over poor little Vikrant and not known something was wrong.

Thanks Joe. The old salts were very conscious about their rig. Especially if it came from Gieves; bespoke naval tailors. Of course there were two Gieves; Gieves of London and Gieves of Pompey (Portsmouth). They were considered to be different.

There is a story of the RIN from wartime. The crew of a mine-sweeper had closed up on action stations. An unfortunate watchkeeping officer was in the shower at that time. He hurriedly wrapped his soapy torso in a towel, stick his peaked cap on his head and found his way to the Bridge. The Captain (who was well-known for his turn-out) turned a withering look in his direction and said "Mister, what kind of rig is that?" The Officer could only stutter "Sir, my Cap is from Gieves".
The reply was "Gieves is it? Then you are alright".

 

[Capt.Popeye]

It's Yank, if I remember correctly. An exchange with some gigantic US CVN which could have run over poor little Vikrant and not known something was wrong.

@Joe Shearer; I overlooked telling you something. Adm. MKR's headgear is that of a Russian Submariner. I remember seeing that early on (in the period that MKR was at his zenith as DNI) on some SU heads. The choice of that headgear seems particularly appropriate at the commisioning of INS Arihant (ex-ATV) which MKR successfully nurtured. Adm. Roy seemed to have an interesting collection of headgear!