Analysis: China vs India — Competition of Civilisations

[Obambam]

China and the old India are very rich in culture and believes. Over the years and peaceful times we have experienced excellent trade relationships, shared valuable cultures and believes and respected one another. If it weren't for old India then we may or may not have Buddism or Kung Fu in China today.
Those were the good times. Things took a turn for the worse when the British Imperialist arrived. They took over the old India and used it to imprison the Chinese by growing Opium Poppies from which the opium were produced, which was then shipped and sold to China. This lead to the Opium War.
They then created a mess on our borders when they left, which we are still having disputes with. If it wasn't for them, our relationships today could have been like the China-Pakistan relationship. Because of what happened, I really hated the West for colonizing and destroying peaceful defenceless countries.

 

[ashant]

Eminently sensible. Thank you.


Though it would be interesting to hear what you make of the second quote I posted by Gandhi. Perhaps it's not wise to dismiss altogether this aspect of Indian spirituality.

MK Gandhi had strong views on everything, but those were just his views. They do not represent what India thinks as a whole. Even his followers did not agree with a lot he said. For example, Gandhi wanted a utopian village-dominated economy in India, and this idea was dumped by his followers in his lifetime.

As for his comment: Most of us are very much materialistic, now and from the time immemorial (not sure how it was in ancient Indian civilization). How else do you explain our Maharajas who kept accumulating.
That apart, Hindu and Buddhist philosophy do say a lot on breaking the cycle of materialism (don't know if those pointers work ).
But that stuff is not for everyone, no? Science does not answer our questions on why we are unhappy and why we kill each other, even if we are progressing somewhere. I guess, any kind of spirituality comes in to fill this void. You have to note the context of the comment by Gandhi. Unprecedented number of people were being killed in the world wars, with new weapons invented by human ingenuity. Maybe, he was saying that there is a better way.

 

[EjazR]

Democratic, hahahahahaha

you wanna look at some "democratic" Chinese forums? Other than beating down the CPC, they talk about nuking Japan, conquering Russia, genociding Vietnam, enslaving India... but if Indians truly think this way, I guess the democrats are right, at least the enslaving Indians part.

Lets see when China turns democratic and what happens. "Forums" does not represent the entire Chinese population. And in any case, is the CPC any different, given the oppurtunity, would CPC act in any different way? Not nuking and genociding ofcourse but it will tend to be expansionist as already been seen last year.

Atleast we will have prior warning if China turns democratic and if there is nothing to worry about, we will see that in the debates in a democratic China.

 

[below_freezing]

Lets see when China turns democratic and what happens. "Forums" does not represent the entire Chinese population. And in any case, is the CPC any different, given the oppurtunity, would CPC act in any different way? Not nuking and genociding ofcourse but it will tend to be expansionist as already been seen last year.

Atleast we will have prior warning if China turns democratic and if there is nothing to worry about, we will see that in the debates in a democratic China.

I put "democratic" in quotes because they are not democratic. They are hardcore fascists and would be worse than Saddam if put in power. They are not ready to handle multiparty democracy, especially when a leading topic was "After we win the election how do we execute all the commies?". They are not censored, showing the full freedom, far more than most self claimed "democratic" countries, that they enjoy.

Here you can read their great ideas about initiating a 80 million person political purge: ?????????? - ????? - ?????? - UOCN.org!

We already have debates about this. If debates make a country democratic then our country is the most democratic of all. Nowhere else are there 50,000 major protests a year and the government amazingly doesn't collapse nor do they escalate into violence.

The conclusion of the debates was, split India into 30 pieces.

 

[EjazR]

I completely agree with you on this. Mr. Huntington talked too much civilization conflict but too less, or none, mutual cultural benefit: a typical Western psychology.

In the vast history, before modern times, India culturally benefited China by transmitting Buddhism, and China culturally benefited India by transmitting silk technologies. Those things are nowhere to see in Huntington’s book.

Agreed, although western "nations" have their own positives.

To say that democracy is a panacea is too naïve, if not a joke. If you are sane, in modern times, democratic countries launch more wars and evasions than non-democratic countries.

In fact, democracy in under-developed countries can fan-up more irrational nationalism, and result in wars, because democracy is all about voting bank. If China were a (western style) democracy country, I have no question that a war to conquer Taiwan would have been witnessed, given such rising nationalism.

Not really, there is no correlation between regime types and wars. But if you look at the historical data, non-democratic regimes have INITIATED the war byfar than democratic ones.

As I elaborated numerous times, China was pushed by India to Pakistan side. You couldn’t refute this fact!

China propping up Pakistan is in its best interest. Even if there was no war in 1962, it is very likely that China would have still allied with Pakistan to check India.

More importantly, China proliferated nuclear weapons and tested them for Pakistan in the 1980s. This was grave provacation on Chinese part and completely unnecessary if it really wanted to improve relations with India at some point in the future. Nuclear proliferation to Pakistan was a statement to say "we can never be friends, although we may have a cold peace"

Well said. So let Dalai Lama leave to the north and let negotiation on Zang Nan (AP) begin!

Dalai Lama is free to go to Tibet when he wants. Its China's decision to create conditions for his arrival. India is not claiming nor supporting an independant Tibet.

Arunachal Pradesh is a border dispute and has nothing to do with zones of influence that I mentioned.

The equivalent of Chinese influence south of Himalayas in Pakistan would be equivalent to India's influence in Mongolia, Taiwan, Korea or Japan. Defence pacts with them and so on.

To manage the security competition and avoid the possibility of a hostile neighborhood, China would do well to stick to its zone of influence in the north east Asia and leave South Asia to India. Otherwise it is creating an unnecessary situation that would cause problems.

 

[EjazR]

I put "democratic" in quotes because they are not democratic. They are hardcore fascists and would be worse than Saddam if put in power. They are not ready to handle multiparty democracy, especially when a leading topic was "After we win the election how do we execute all the commies?". They are not censored, showing the full freedom, far more than most self claimed "democratic" countries, that they enjoy.

We already have debates about this. If debates make a country democratic then our country is the most democratic of all. Nowhere else are there 50,000 major protests a year and the government amazingly doesn't collapse nor do they escalate into violence.

The conclusion of the debates was, split India into 30 pieces.

So then you need to learn about democracy then. Democracy does not mean follow for the 20% Hardcore fascists say. And like I said, if the majority Chinese say they want to split India into 30 pieces---at least we will know and be prepared rather than be dulled into complacency by the CPC. Plus the people of China will get a Chinese policy that THEY WANT. Win Win for both.

 

[below_freezing]

So then you need to learn about democracy then. Democracy does not mean follow for the 20% Hardcore fascists say. And like I said, if the majority Chinese say they want to split India into 30 pieces---at least we will know and be prepared rather than be dulled into complacency by the CPC. Plus the people of China will get a Chinese policy that THEY WANT. Win Win for both.

There is democracy in China already. There is no democracy in India. You have everything backwards.

 

[ramu]

There is democracy in China already. There is no democracy in India. You have everything backwards.

Democracy in China. Joke of the day.

 

[The HBS Guy]

Being compared to China is an honour in itself.

...at a time when some countries get grouped with A'stan.

May India-China relations prosper.

 

[below_freezing]

Democracy in China. Joke of the day.

We have 50000 protests a year and none of them escalate into violence.

India though...

Protest Escalates at Proposed Indian Nuclear Site | News | English

Violence in India's nuke protest

BJP protest turns violent, 40 hurt - Times Of India

The freedom from violence is a fundamental freedom that many in India, even as they fool themselves otherwise, do not enjoy.

What others see as a weakness, we see as a strength.

 

[ramu]

^^^^ You are a kid with 0 grasp of democracy.

Live in your made - believe world.

one child policy is the epitome of China's democracy.

 

[TheStrantrunCurve]

China and the old India are very rich in culture and believes. Over the years and peaceful times we have experienced excellent trade relationships, shared valuable cultures and believes and respected one another. If it weren't for old India then we may or may not have Buddism or Kung Fu in China today.
Those were the good times. Things took a turn for the worse when the British Imperialist arrived. They took over the old India and used it to imprison the Chinese by growing Opium Poppies from which the opium were produced, which was then shipped and sold to China. This lead to the Opium War.
They then created a mess on our borders when they left, which we are still having disputes with. If it wasn't for them, our relationships today could have been like the China-Pakistan relationship. Because of what happened, I really hated the West for colonizing and destroying peaceful defenceless countries.

Bharat is not in rich in culture, Its culture comes from central asian muslim marauders who ruled bhartis for 1000 years. Much of the Hindustani music, language, and culture has Muslim roots. Bharti culture is influenced by Islamic culture.
The only thing Bharat can do is pilfer Muslim achievements like Muslim cuisine (all dishes except daal and poppadoms), language (Urdu), architecture (Taj Mahal, Red Fort etc), culture (Mughal ‘high culture’ peddled as ‘Indian’), dress (shalwar kameez, pashmina shawls,the sherwani, the achkan, the khuusa shoes, the so-called ‘Nehru collar’ which isn’t Nehru’s at all- he taxed it from Muslim nobleman) and much else, because there’s clearly nothing worth having in the Hindu ‘civilisation’.

The only thing that came out of the Bharti (Hindu) culture is the caste system, India’s national dish of diarrhoea-like lentils (daal), the ‘bindi’ dot, the turmericy-looking stuff in the hair-line, suttee, female infanticide, murder and oppression of ‘untouchables’ and other non-Hindus, the prohibition of widow re-marriage (those that escape the pyre!), the unhygienic woodstock-like orgy of unwashed hideous men and women in the Kumbh Mela, the setting up of ‘terrorist incidents’ by the Hindu state then blamed on Muslims (external and internal), the drinking of urine (cow and human) and such like.

Bharat's the one with the Pakistan and Islam/Muslim complex!
It is a schizophrenic state

Bharat is always trying to ape somebody, first Muslims and now Americans
Yet these hindus bigots have audacity to curse their muslim masters who have given so much to Bharat. Just look at these BJP goons (anti muslim terrorists party), they hold immense hatred for muslims yet you will always see (most of them) them in muslim dress (shalwar kamiz)
You should not be praising bharat for all these achievements since muslim are responsible for giving them so much.

Since Pakistan is the successor state to Mughal empire, Pakistan deserves this credit for muslim achievemnts

If it weren't for old India then we may or may not have Buddism or Kung Fu in China today .

Please sir, India is not the name of Bharat, India comes from Indus valley in Pakistan. It was given to indus valley people (current day pakistanis) by greeks not to these ganga velley bharatis. Nehru was a historian he knew the popularity of this name, this is the reason he chose the name india for his country, to take credit for someone’s else history.

It were the pakistanis who were responsible for spreading buddhism to tibet and from their it spread to whole of China, korea and Japan.

It really burns me when someone like you give all the credit for achievements of our ancestor to these bharatis.

The ancestors of current day bhartis exterminated Buddhism from bharat. This is the reason buddhism spread in Pakistan aka indus valley. Pakistan aka indus valley is the home of the first and only buddhist civilization aka Ghandhara Civilization. It is we who were buddhists not the hindus, the hindu bharat abhored budhists and even to this day they are trying to exterminate peacefull buddhist in sri Lanka using their proxy Tamil Tigers.

It was a Pakistani from Swat called Padmasambhava who travelled to Tibet converted the king with his rituals and incantations, and passed on their knowledge that had been transmitted secretly through generations of swati gurus. For centuries thereafter, Swat became a major pilgrimage site for Tibetans. Padmasambhava is still honored throughout Tibet

I know Pakistani history is tagged with bharati history that is all due to bharti history was manufactured and written by Britons in the 19 th century and they like to show Pakistan has been a part of Bharat since stone age which is preposterous considering the fact these people don’t have any civilization apart from stealing from its neighbors. I hope next time you don’t praise bhartis for the achievements of our ancestors.

 

[majesticpankaj]

Bharat is not in rich in culture, Its culture comes from central asian muslim marauders who ruled bhartis for 1000 years. Much of the Hindustani music, language, and culture has Muslim roots. Bharti culture is influenced by Islamic culture.
The only thing Bharat can do is pilfer Muslim achievements like Muslim cuisine (all dishes except daal and poppadoms), language (Urdu), architecture (Taj Mahal, Red Fort etc), culture (Mughal ‘high culture’ peddled as ‘Indian’), dress (shalwar kameez, pashmina shawls,the sherwani, the achkan, the khuusa shoes, the so-called ‘Nehru collar’ which isn’t Nehru’s at all- he taxed it from Muslim nobleman) and much else, because there’s clearly nothing worth having in the Hindu ‘civilisation’.

The only thing that came out of the Bharti (Hindu) culture is the caste system, India’s national dish of diarrhoea-like lentils (daal), the ‘bindi’ dot, the turmericy-looking stuff in the hair-line, suttee, female infanticide, murder and oppression of ‘untouchables’ and other non-Hindus, the prohibition of widow re-marriage (those that escape the pyre!), the unhygienic woodstock-like orgy of unwashed hideous men and women in the Kumbh Mela, the setting up of ‘terrorist incidents’ by the Hindu state then blamed on Muslims (external and internal), the drinking of urine (cow and human) and such like.

Bharat's the one with the Pakistan and Islam/Muslim complex!
It is a schizophrenic state

Bharat is always trying to ape somebody, first Muslims and now Americans

Yet these hindus bigots have audacity to curse their muslim masters who have given so much to Bharat. Just look at these BJP goons (anti muslim terrorists party), they hold immense hatred for muslims yet you will always see (most of them) them in muslim dress (shalwar kamiz)
You should not be praising bharat for all these achievements since muslim are responsible for giving them so much.

Since Pakistan is the successor state to Mughal empire, Pakistan deserves this credit for muslim achievemnts





Please sir, India is not the name of Bharat, India comes from Indus valley in Pakistan. It was given to indus valley people (current day pakistanis) by greeks not to these ganga velley bharatis. Nehru was a historian he knew the popularity of this name, this is the reason he chose the name india for his country, to take credit for someone’s else history.

It were the pakistanis who were responsible for spreading buddhism to tibet and from their it spread to whole of China, korea and Japan.

It really burns me when someone like you give all the credit for achievements of our ancestor to these bharatis.

The ancestors of current day bhartis exterminated Buddhism from bharat. This is the reason buddhism spread in Pakistan aka indus valley. Pakistan aka indus valley is the home of the first and only buddhist civilization aka Ghandhara Civilization. It is we who were buddhists not the hindus, the hindu bharat abhored budhists and even to this day they are trying to exterminate peacefull buddhist in sri Lanka using their proxy Tamil Tigers.

It was Pakistani from Swat called Padmasambhava who travelled to Tibet converted the king with his rituals and incantations, and passed on their knowledge that had been transmitted secretly through generations of swati gurus. For centuries thereafter, Swat became a major pilgrimage site for Tibetans. Padmasambhava is still honored throughout Tibet

I know Pakistani history is tagged with bharati history that is all due to bharti history was manufactured and written by Britons in the 19 th century and they like to show Pakistan has been a part of Bharat since stone age which is preposterous considering the fact these people don’t have any civilization apart from stealing from its neighbors. I hope next time you don’t praise bhartis for the achievements of our ancestors.

 

[below_freezing]

^^^^ You are a kid with 0 grasp of democracy.

Live in your made - believe world.

one child policy is the epitome of China's democracy.

Democracy in India = mob violence
Democracy in China = efficient government that advances the nation

 

[Speeder 2]

China and the old India are very rich in culture and believes. ...

Old India was founded by the Aryans invasion.

Old "India" means the old subcontinent, a part of it at least, a key part.

- Aryans bought wheels to old " India" and taught its indigenous people how to transport;

-Aryans introduced domestic horses to old "india" , taught its indigenous people how to ride;

- Aryans gave old "india" a language, Hindi, which belongs to Indo-European language system;

- Aryans wrote beautiful Vedas poetry (with Hindi), which up to now has been THE ultimate achievement of "India";

- Aryans gave old "india" a hierarchical govening system, Caste System , realising that they were so different from the indigenous people;

- Aryans gave old "india" a religion called Hinduism;

- Aryans kickstarted a civilisation in old "India" with numerous inventions centries before B.C.

...

In short, Aryans established a major civilisation in the old subcontinent on par with old Egypt, old China, and old Babylon.



Yet Aryans failed, miserablely, in front of a sea of the indigenous people after millennia of miscegenation.

Their blood diluted as drops in the ocean in today's subcontinent hence disappeared and their civilisation was long gone thousands of years ago...

their language, their religion, their poetry... however, remain and are used by a complete different people called themselves "Indians".


Today , this British (the remote cousins of Aryans, how ironic!) invented "India" with completely different people from Aryans, has indeed nothing to do with the old "India" whatsoever !


Yeah, China has been the Old "China", from the culture, language to the people - the Chinese civilisation.


yet today's India? Is it Persian? Is it Mogol? Is it Dravidian? Is it Negroid? is it Arabic? Or is it British?

It is none of them in pure !

And it is all of them by association of millennia of conquest !

It is in fact anything but a civilisation !


" China vs India — Competition of Civilisations "?

There's no civilisation to start with from one part, and what competition clueless sheeple are talking about?

.