An open letter to the people of India on the Kashmir issue

[indiatester]

The instrument of accession was to be based on 2 bearings - the state's geographical position to India or Pakistan and the majority religion of its inhabitants .

Now that you are writing completely unrelated points to your original contention,
I presume you concede
1) Instrument of accession does not mandate a plebiscite
2) UN resolution calling for a plebiscite is not binding & not mandatory.

 

[bronxbull]

@chauvunist

good for you,but am surprised because if you had the more productive part,u would be at peace and not like this.

 

[chauvunist]

That's one of the most moronic exaggeration that Pakistanis come up with while talking of Kashmir, forgetting that the Indian part of Kashmir shares a border with both Pakistan and China and has been involved in almost every war India has fought. But detail orientation is something I have stopped expecting from Pakistani members on this forum (except from a few sensible ones)

Well China was out of equation until 1962 happened and the force deployment is solely to keep Kashmiri's movement under oppression,I mean why on earth would one keep hundreds of thousands of soldiers in Normal area...Regarding Keeping China in context we did see what happened in Ladakh camping by Chinese Soldiers,They were there till whenever they wanted and your so called troops deployment were nothing than spectators at mercy..

The so called tribals or the terrorists sent by your then leader took that land from the independent state of Kashmir and not from India. Also, I personally think that Jinnah made the biggest blunder of his life by ordering that terrorist invasion of Kashmir which resulted in India getting the most productive part of the state including the capital and the upstream control of all the rivers.

And about comparison with moon, well I should have known better than to expect it to be within your comprehension abilities

The freedom fighters grabbed the Land from Indian forces after Kashmir was illegitimitely annexed by India,and regarding productive piece though i may agree a bit but Thanks to Freedom Fighters not only we hold 45 % of Area but also strategically the most important part,Not only it shattered your dream of trade route to Afghanistan and central Asian countries but also gave us the oppurtunity to Give China the Strategic Energy Corridor thereby giving India a real pain the ***.....But then again denialism is the favorite Hobby of Indians..

@chauvunist

good for you,but am surprised because if you had the more productive part,u would be at peace and not like this.

I am Baffled at your comparison of Taking Kashmir from India in 1948 to current law and order situation in Pakistan,i mean seriouly,do you have comprehension problems or what..

 

[joekrish]

If anybody wants Kashmir, come and get it.

 

[waz]

Waste of time this letter. It will fall on deaf ears.

 

[janon]

The freedom fighters grabbed the Land from Indian forces after Kashmir was illegitimitely annexed by India,and regarding productive piece though i may agree a bit but Thanks to Freedom Fighters not only we hold 45 % of Area but also strategically the most important part,Not only it shattered your dream of trade route to Afghanistan and central Asian countries but also gave us the oppurtunity to Give China the Strategic Energy Corridor thereby giving India a real pain the ***.....But then again denialism is the favorite Hobby of Indians..

Inversion of history. The ruler of Kashmir acceeded to India AFTER Pashtun marauders and tribal lashkars invaded the sovereign kingdom of Kashmir. The Indian army went in to stop the massacre and carnage, and stopped them from capturing the best parts of Kashmir.

Waste of time this letter. It will fall on deaf ears.

Don't blame our ears, if nothing worth hearing is said. Does the letter offer any constructive solution? If so,we are "all ears". Just a string of platitudes about how important it is.

 

[bronxbull]

I am Baffled at your comparison of Taking Kashmir from India in 1948 to current law and order situation in Pakistan,i mean seriouly,do you have comprehension problems or what..

I wasn't talking about pakistan when i said you and nor was i talking about pakistan's law and order situation.

when i hear TV shows in Pak talk about kashmir,they seem very desperate that the water of pak rivers is under the control of india,all your kiraaya u earn from leasing the region to china is very petty compared to the real strategic control that India has.

I am positively baffled at your comprehension skills,wonder how you clung onto some random tangent about law and order in pak.

I am merely talking about the agitated state pakistanis get when India controls the status quo in kashmir valley.

 

[Echo_419]

Because it is not their entire population that wants Pakistanis and independence. What's more, half of their demography is exiled and fears returning to their homeland due to the religion of peace problem. So the way we see it:

1- Referendum referred to two parties us and the Pakistanis. By giving Shaksgam Valley to China, Pakistan nullified the entire referndum process.

If you are ready then it is okay.

2- We simply wait till Pakistan implodes and then walk over to take it. Time is on our side, not Pakistan's.

But be assured about one thing; no other negotiation.

Pakistan had its golden moment when Vajpayee ji offered to make LOC as the international border. But they didn't want it. They wanted it all.

My man
Pakistan is indeed imploding just hope that BJP comes into power & increases this process
When it finally happens we walk over & collect the spoils

 

[waz]

Don't blame our ears, if nothing worth hearing is said. Does the letter offer any constructive solution? If so,we are "all ears". Just a string of platitudes about how important it is.

Blame?I just said no one will listen and one of the reasons is that there are no solutions. I see only one solution but it is a hell of a controversial one.

My man
Pakistan is indeed imploding just hope that BJP comes into power & increases this process
When it finally happens we walk over & collect the spoils

You wish. I remember 2012 being the date for that and then 2015, which was quoted by many of your papers.

Nothing will happen now or ever. Nor can you do anything to speed the so called "process" up.

"Collect spoils" your delusions know no bounds.....

 

[janon]

Blame?I just said no one will listen and one of the reasons is that there are no solutions. I see only one solution but it is a hell of a controversial one.

What is it, I'm all ears.

When you say "it will fall on deaf ears", that makes it sound like a good suggestion is being ignored. This "letter" contains nothing concrete, nothing substantial.

 

[waz]

What is it, I'm all ears.

When you say "it will fall on deaf ears", that makes it sound like a good suggestion is being ignored. This "letter" contains nothing concrete, nothing substantial.

Solution a partition of the JK? Jammu goes to India, valley to Pakistan, border in the middle. But then that will never be accepted by India as it clashes with the fundamental principle of rejecting the two nation theory. It also raises the question about the Pandits who are part of the valley. Pakistani sided arguments include why it must only be the valley when India successfully annexed other kingdoms that chose to go with Pakistan but had Hindu majorities. How would a population exchange work.

Basically improbable.



As for the deaf ears stuff ,I should have added the explanation in my previous post.

 

[janon]

Solution a partition of the JK? Jammu goes to India, valley to Pakistan, border in the middle. But then that will never be accepted by India as it clashes with the fundamental principle of rejecting the two nation theory. It also raises the question about the Pandits who are part of the valley. Pakistani sided arguments include why it must only be the valley when India successfully annexed other kingdoms that chose to go with Pakistan but had Hindu majorities. How would a population exchange work.

Basically improbable.

In other words, you want some parts of territory controlled by India to be given to Pakistan. What does India get in return, what does Pak bring to the table? The fact is that Indian Kashmir today is under Indian control. To get the valley, you either have to take it from us by force, or give us something in exchange. What makes you think that such "solutions" that Pakistanis come up with, which always involves India losing territory and Pak gaining territory, is a solution at all?

 

[waz]

In other words, you want some parts of territory controlled by India to be given to Pakistan. What does India get in return, what does Pak bring to the table? The fact is that Indian Kashmir today is under Indian control. To get the valley, you either have to take it from us by force, or give us something in exchange. What makes you think that such "solutions" that Pakistanis come up with, which always involves India losing territory and Pak gaining territory, is a solution at all?

You get ever lasting peace lol.

In all honesty we won't give anything up in exchange, how could we? Which population in our territories would agree to that? None. However the Kashmiris would not be adverse to them joining us. Yes the Indians wouldn't like it but then shouldn't it be down to whoever lives there.

Anyway, I just say let it be and see what happens down the years.

 

[janon]

You get ever lasting peace lol.

In all honesty we won't give anything up in exchange, how could we? Which population in our territories would agree to that? None. However the Kashmiris would not be adverse to them joining us. Yes the Indians wouldn't like it but then shouldn't it be down to whoever lives there.

Anyway, I just say let it be and see what happens down the years.

That "everlasting peace" thing is a mirage, when talking about Pakistani jihadi groups. They will always have reasons to trouble India, even if the Kashmir issue is resolved. Spreading islam for example, or establishing sharia. The lashkar-e-toiba has as one of its aims the establishment of islamic rule from spain to malaysia. As long as there are people who believe in establishing their ideology through force, there will be no everlasting peace.

Besides, we are far beyond the point where you can threaten us with troubles unless some parts of Kashmir is given to you. We have learnt how to keep out Pakistani jihadis, or at least prevent them from entering in sufficient numbers to be effective. Other than a few terrorist attacks now and then, they are not in a position to threaten us with enough violence to intimidate us into giving away our territory. Besides, each terror attack (like 26/11) only strengthens our resolve and determination to protect ourselves in future and hate the jihadis even more.

 

[karan.1970]

Well China was out of equation until 1962 happened and the force deployment is solely to keep Kashmiri's movement under oppression,I mean why on earth would one keep hundreds of thousands of soldiers in Normal area...

Are you saying India had 0.7 million soldiers in Kashmir prior to 1962? I knew about comprehension issues with you guys, but did not realize the history was a gone case too

The freedom fighters grabbed the Land from Indian forces after Kashmir was illegitimitely annexed by India,and regarding productive piece though i may agree a bit but Thanks to Freedom Fighters not only we hold 45 % of Area but also strategically the most important part,Not only it shattered your dream of trade route to Afghanistan and central Asian countries but also gave us the oppurtunity to Give China the Strategic Energy Corridor thereby giving India a real pain the ***.....But then again denialism is the favorite Hobby of Indians..

We have all the necessary trade that we need across the world and when that energy corridor becomes a benefit generating deal for Pakistan, we can discuss it in more detail. After all for last 5 years you folks have been singing around the tune of IPI, then IP and then IPC gas pipeline which is all but dead now.

btw, this was the situation of the Pakistani terrorist attack on the state of Kashmir when India intervened. But I know you guys like to live in the alternate reality where you managed to win something from India (except peak 5353 ) and hence like to believe that your terrorists captured the Pak Occupied Kashmir from India and not maharaja of Kashmir

Solution a partition of the JK? Jammu goes to India, valley to Pakistan, border in the middle. But then that will never be accepted by India as it clashes with the fundamental principle of rejecting the two nation theory. It also raises the question about the Pandits who are part of the valley. Pakistani sided arguments include why it must only be the valley when India successfully annexed other kingdoms that chose to go with Pakistan but had Hindu majorities. How would a population exchange work.

Basically improbable.

My take.. the solution will come to fruit only under 2 conditions
1. One of the 2 countries becomes so weak that it is walked over by the other. This solution is very low probability since both countries are nuclear powers
2. Both countries (or at least one of them) becomes so successful that giving the concessions on the Kashmir does not stay a core issue for them

Apart from that, Kashmir will stay as it is today