An Artist in Exile Tests India’s Democratic Ideals

[DarkStar]

It seems your comprehension is weak. If you read the complete thread, you will realize that it has nothing to do with artist's religion and it is about what he did.

It has everything to do with the artist's religion. He has been a constant target of HIndutva activists and leaders, even before the now infamous Indian Map nude painting.

As I am studyign the painting closely, there is no Goddess involved. It is a painting depicting "mother India", aligned with the shape of the map of hte Republic of INdia.


Tell me, where in this pic has he hurt religious sensibilities??? Is the likeness like that of any Hindu Goddess that we know of? It doesnt seem so. Her features look more european, and her nose looks greek. It is not a representation I have ever seen in a Hindu Idol.

 

[Imran Khan]

from were you get sir darkstar this one ?and who will make this

 

[daredevil]

It has everything to do with the artist's religion. He has been a constant target of HIndutva activists and leaders, even before the now infamous Indian Map nude painting.

As I am studyign the painting closely, there is no Goddess involved. It is a painting depicting "mother India", aligned with the shape of the map of hte Republic of INdia.


Tell me, where in this pic has he hurt religious sensibilities??? Is the likeness like that of any Hindu Goddess that we know of? It doesnt seem so. Her features look more european, and her nose looks greek. It is not a representation I have ever seen in a Hindu Idol.

This is even more blasphemous than what he did for the other godesses. You will not understand because you don't know what it means to us.

This is what he did for the godesses

Goddess Durga in sexual union with Tiger

Goddess Lakshmi naked on Shree Ganesh's head

 

[BanglaBhoot]

The question is how should a truly secular society deal with these offensive pictorials. In the West Jesus Christ has been depicted on film as having sexual relations with Mary Magdalen. There have been comical and musical versions of the Jesus story. While there have been protests none of the artists were forced out of the country. Another question to ponder is if the artistes in the Jesus controversy had been from another religion would the treatment have differed. I think not. If India is truly a secular society both impartial to its Hindu and Muslim communities should it not have emulated the behavior of these western countries. I think these issues go to the heart of what it is to be Indian. If India cannot resolve these dichotomies in an amicable manner consistent with secular principles then the whole meaning of the Indian nation comes into doubt.

 

[Vinod2070]

As has already been said, the discussion has unfortunately not been about artistic freedom at all.

Artistic freedom needs to be respected. No two ways about it. And also there is no doubt that India is streets ahead in that aspect compared to any other country in the region.

The painting in question are offensive to a section of people and that is about it. They have targeted the artist, in some cases with vandalism and in some cases legally. The civil society and the state institutions are solidly behind Hussain in general, something you can't dream of in our neighborhood.

The comparisons with the West are superfluous.

 

[anand]

The question is how should a truly secular society deal with these offensive pictorials. In the West Jesus Christ has been depicted on film as having sexual relations with Mary Magdalen. There have been comical and musical versions of the Jesus story. While there have been protests none of the artists were forced out of the country. Another question to ponder is if the artistes in the Jesus controversy had been from another religion would the treatment have differed. I think not. If India is truly a secular society both impartial to its Hindu and Muslim communities should it not have emulated the behavior of these western countries. I think these issues go to the heart of what it is to be Indian. If India cannot resolve these dichotomies in an amicable manner consistent with secular principles then the whole meaning of the Indian nation comes into doubt.

Remember danish cartoon controversy.

If any thing is done by some elements in India, you quickly come to that conclusion, India is like this, India is like that.....but if same thing happens in your country then, it is an act of individuals.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

It is India that makes the pretense of being secular and following the Western mode of doing things and especially acting impartially between its minorities. India has to face facts that none of this is the case. The Indian state is very much based on Hindu religious beliefs and that when there is conflict with minorities the Hindu position will prevail. We have only looked at the question of art but the same applies in the practice of law and politics. The controversy over art is merely the reflection of the prejudices in the rest of society (or to be more precise the elite Hindu class) against certain minorities or even all minorities.

 

[donrahul]

It is India that makes the pretense of being secular and following the Western mode of doing things and especially acting impartially between its minorities. India has to face facts that none of this is the case. The Indian state is very much based on Hindu religious beliefs and that when there is conflict with minorities the Hindu position will prevail. We have only looked at the question of art but the same applies in the practice of law and politics. The controversy over art is merely the reflection of the prejudices in the rest of society (or to be more precise the elite Hindu class) against certain minorities or even all minorities.

Exactly This is the reason, why there was an Abdul Kalam, Sania Mirza etc.. etc..

 

[third eye]

It is India that makes the pretense of being secular and following the Western mode of doing things and especially acting impartially between its minorities. India has to face facts that none of this is the case. The Indian state is very much based on Hindu religious beliefs and that when there is conflict with minorities the Hindu position will prevail. We have only looked at the question of art but the same applies in the practice of law and politics. The controversy over art is merely the reflection of the prejudices in the rest of society (or to be more precise the elite Hindu class) against certain minorities or even all minorities.

Does freedom of speech imply that I could stand outside your home & abuse you loudly.. and not expect you to respond ?

Similarly, secularism cannot be used as a platform to go ahead and do wahtever you wish to without expecting a retaliation. whether the retaliation is within the law or otherwise can be debated / justified by the person who does it.

Remember talima , the danish cartoons & the Satanic verses ?

I am in agreement with the responses to them by the muslims ( except for Taslim's case) simply coz as I had mentioned in an earlier post on a diff subject religion is a very personal & private affair.If I don't agree with your's I have no right or reason to rebuke / make fun of it.

Similarly, this Gent is also welcome to paint what he wishes ( luckily for him Hinduism does not issue Fatwas) but he has to be careful of the sensibilities of the people around him. This is not coz hindus form a majority but plain common sense & the advantage education gives us.

 

[Vinod2070]

Well, people all over the world are seeing through this hypocrisy now.

People like you don't have a single state out of the 57 Islamic countries where minorities enjoy equal rights. They are discriminated constitutionally everywhere.

Your ideal country the Saudi Arabia is hypocrite in the extreme, not allowing non-Islamic places of worship or faiths at all in the country but shamelessly creating mosques and Madressas in secular countries like India and even in the center of Rome, just because these countries are not as bigoted as themselves.

Everyone has seen those images from Bangladesh where the people just beat a Hindu to death after the fiery Friday sermons in the mosque.

Mr. Munshi, enough of your hypocrisy here. Just look at the mirror and then talk to others.

 

[Always Neutral]

The question is how should a truly secular society deal with these offensive pictorials. In the West Jesus Christ has been depicted on film as having sexual relations with Mary Magdalen. There have been comical and musical versions of the Jesus story. While there have been protests none of the artists were forced out of the country. Another question to ponder is if the artistes in the Jesus controversy had been from another religion would the treatment have differed. I think not. If India is truly a secular society both impartial to its Hindu and Muslim communities should it not have emulated the behavior of these western countries. I think these issues go to the heart of what it is to be Indian. If India cannot resolve these dichotomies in an amicable manner consistent with secular principles then the whole meaning of the Indian nation comes into doubt.

Mr Munshi,

What the Indians did with Hussain is stupid but what U did with Taslima Nasreen is equally stupid.

Care to open a thread on that.

Both Hindus and Muslims in the sub-continent are bigotted and thats a fact.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

It has everything to do with the artist's religion. He has been a constant target of HIndutva activists and leaders, even before the now infamous Indian Map nude painting.

As I am studyign the painting closely, there is no Goddess involved. It is a painting depicting "mother India", aligned with the shape of the map of hte Republic of INdia.


Tell me, where in this pic has he hurt religious sensibilities??? Is the likeness like that of any Hindu Goddess that we know of? It doesnt seem so. Her features look more european, and her nose looks greek. It is not a representation I have ever seen in a Hindu Idol.

I agree with you that there are no religious sentiments hurt but why not withdraw the Hoodod Law in Pakistan and also print the Danish Cartoons and allow Salman Rushdie to publish his novel freely in Pakistan and then pontificate.

Regards

 

[Always Neutral]

As has already been said, the discussion has unfortunately not been about artistic freedom at all.

Artistic freedom needs to be respected. No two ways about it. And also there is no doubt that India is streets ahead in that aspect compared to any other country in the region.

The painting in question are offensive to a section of people and that is about it. They have targeted the artist, in some cases with vandalism and in some cases legally. The civil society and the state institutions are solidly behind Hussain in general, something you can't dream of in our neighborhood.

The comparisons with the West are superfluous.

Why is it superflous. Indians keep on stating that they are going to be the next super power ? Have you noticed one thing in common about all super powers ? They can introspect which Indians need to do. Hounding a 90 year old man will not make U a super power.

Regards

 

[Goodperson]

I agree with you that there are no religious sentiments hurt but why not withdraw the Hoodod Law in Pakistan and also print the Danish Cartoons and allow Salman Rushdie to publish his novel freely in Pakistan and then pontificate.

Regards

Nope its easier to blame Indians even if Indian Govt and courts have come out in defense of the artiste.

 

[Vinod2070]

Mr Munshi,

What the Indians did with Hussain is stupid but what U did with Taslima Nasreen is equally stupid.

Care to open a thread on that.

Both Hindus and Muslims in the sub-continent are bigotted and thats a fact.

Regards

A strong statement this.

It may be true for a section of the people, generalizing it to the whole people is in my opinion incorrect.

Especially in India, where the large majority is very tolerant and secular in their approach.

Much more than Europeans I will say who could not stand a fraction of such diversity, either linguistic or religious, in their midst till very recently.