Alice Wells’ visit to Pakistan — a nod for multi alignment with US? : OP ED, The News

[Ghost 125]

Hi,

Cowardice makes you neutral---otherwise no man is born neutral---including women---.

Pakistan showed extreme cowardice staying neutral in the last 5 + years starting with the Yemen crisis---.

And now pakistan does not have a foothold to stand on---. It is literally begging around looking for help to save its economy and is finding out that there are no takers.

Iran---shooting down the aircraft have shot themselves in the foot and any aggression and posturing on their part has fizzled out---.

Even though a lots of TALKERS on this forum and in pakistan claimed big talk about what Iran would do---but those two SA missiles just completely shut down Iran.

Pakistan was somewhat counting on that.

And Imran Khan was somewhat NAIVE to tell the americans in the US to be wary pf Iran because the iranians are tougher than the afghans---.

That statement showed that Imran Khan had no clue how powerful a nation the US is militarily and how its military responds proportionately against the enemy's threats and assets---meaning not all all enemies be retaliated with a similar kind of force and weapons---.

If today---pakistan had 150000 troops stationed in different blocks of GCC---this crisis would not have come up at all---.

150 K troops would have brought in at least 250000 to 400000 extra civilian jobs in the GCC---well paying jobs---.

So---with close to 500000 new jobs would have resulted in a house building boom in pakistan---. Let us say 250000 new houses---.

The govt report says that for every new house build---it creates 40 new jobs---that is in just one area---.

The US agenda for pakistan is only known to the US---right now it is build up on SHIFTING SANDS and there is a total lack of stability in it---and it is reflective of the internal and external policies of the US---.

The america of today has become extremely unpredictable---hot one minute---cold the other---.

It is about time that pakistan change its policy of neutrality---. It is high time to move away from our neighbor Iran and associate ourselves openly with the GCC---.

Iran is at its weakest today with a massive internal turmoil due to its own doings---any support of staying neutral means that pakistan would be supporting Iran's Agenda.

Pakistan needs to move out of this " CURSED " situation---make a choice---think of pakistan first and ally with benefactors who have supported Pakistan throughout its existence with all the moral and financial help possible---.

Alice Wells has an agenda---she had clearly spoken her mind about pakistan awhile ago and it was not very pleasant---. That is her real stand---. Now if the US needs pakistan---she will make a temporary adjustment in that position---but that stance would stay temporary till she may want to change it for the next crisis---which who knows is headed to what direction---.

@jaibi ---sir if that is not your article---please post a link to that article---. The disclaimer in the bottom is not enough---.

with all due respect...from where do you suggest we could have extracted 150 k troops from our 500 k total Army. there are already gaps in our defences on bothe eastern and wetern borders. and even where there are no gaps the ratio of enemy and own troops is 3 to 1.
i know you would say as we have discussed in past that...Saudi or arab money would have financed raising of new forces etc, but thing is that they never asked for such a large force and they never intended to give away the driving seat. this is not the saudi arbia or UAE of 1970s. they want the driving seat for themselves with brigade or two from Pakistan , brigade or 2 from sudan, egypt, etc etc. All they ever asked for was a brigade plus size force which wouldnt have benefited us in the manner that you have described. Those countries are not naaive and backward baddus anymore ( well as far as geo politics is concerned), they are playing on a regional level now with their own military capabilities. UAE, Qatar, Saudia are actively involved in Yemen, Libya, Syria etc

 

[Arsalan 345]

neutral position will give zero result.our policy is obsolete.nobody can help you financially if you want to be neutral all the time.look at pakistani position on kashmir issue and look at other countries.nobody cares about pakistan.bigger powers associate us with afghanistan,iran problems.we need to think about ourselves.iran has showed to the world that they can't even kill american military personnel.how can they win war against america? look at iran now.protest inside iran against irani regime.pakistan should care about arab support because pakistan always faces economic problems.right now,nobody is ready to give us money.

on the other hand,india has isolated pakistan and make friends of pakistan enemies.arabs supported indian stand on kashmir.nobody even condemn 370.this is eye opening.it's clear that if you don't help them,they will not help you.just think about another false flag in india and same war like situation again.even fighting a war requires money.i agree with @MastanKhan and i think it's time to change policy and improve relations with arabs.i know we share border with iran but remember,we also share border with india and nobody will save us financially if a war breaks out.current foreign policy is like pleasing everyone.it's obsolete.what about snub to turkey and malaysia? a snub just for saudia who didn't even condemn 370? i mean select one side.being neutral is stupidity.

everyone knows why alice is coming to pakistan.probably last warning to pakistan to adjust things or otherwise and america is under pressure from israel and india.indian lobby in washington is very strong.a war with india is a real possibility under trump.america can support india.they are cooperating with each other and this is not a secret.i hope members here read bipin rawat new statement.these statements tells us lots of things about events in the future.we need to make allies.neutral is bad for pakistan.also kindly read pm imran khan tweets about indian intentions.they did balakot.they can also attack pakistan and everyone will remain silent because nobody likes a country who always remains neutral.

 

[jaibi]

Roger Mastan Bahi, was just going through your points.

Hi,

Cowardice makes you neutral---otherwise no man is born neutral---including women---.

Pakistan showed extreme cowardice staying neutral in the last 5 + years starting with the Yemen crisis---.

And now pakistan does not have a foothold to stand on---. It is literally begging around looking for help to save its economy and is finding out that there are no takers.

Iran---shooting down the aircraft have shot themselves in the foot and any aggression and posturing on their part has fizzled out---.

Even though a lots of TALKERS on this forum and in pakistan claimed big talk about what Iran would do---but those two SA missiles just completely shut down Iran.

Pakistan was somewhat counting on that.

And Imran Khan was somewhat NAIVE to tell the americans in the US to be wary pf Iran because the iranians are tougher than the afghans---.

That statement showed that Imran Khan had no clue how powerful a nation the US is militarily and how its military responds proportionately against the enemy's threats and assets---meaning not all all enemies be retaliated with a similar kind of force and weapons---.

If today---pakistan had 150000 troops stationed in different blocks of GCC---this crisis would not have come up at all---.

150 K troops would have brought in at least 250000 to 400000 extra civilian jobs in the GCC---well paying jobs---.

So---with close to 500000 new jobs would have resulted in a house building boom in pakistan---. Let us say 250000 new houses---.

The govt report says that for every new house build---it creates 40 new jobs---that is in just one area---.

The US agenda for pakistan is only known to the US---right now it is build up on SHIFTING SANDS and there is a total lack of stability in it---and it is reflective of the internal and external policies of the US---.

The america of today has become extremely unpredictable---hot one minute---cold the other---.

It is about time that pakistan change its policy of neutrality---. It is high time to move away from our neighbor Iran and associate ourselves openly with the GCC---.

Iran is at its weakest today with a massive internal turmoil due to its own doings---any support of staying neutral means that pakistan would be supporting Iran's Agenda.

Pakistan needs to move out of this " CURSED " situation---make a choice---think of pakistan first and ally with benefactors who have supported Pakistan throughout its existence with all the moral and financial help possible---.

Alice Wells has an agenda---she had clearly spoken her mind about pakistan awhile ago and it was not very pleasant---. That is her real stand---. Now if the US needs pakistan---she will make a temporary adjustment in that position---but that stance would stay temporary till she may want to change it for the next crisis---which who knows is headed to what direction---.

@jaibi ---sir if that is not your article---please post a link to that article---. The disclaimer in the bottom is not enough---.

 

[Sine Nomine]

I fear that either Iran or North Korea will be taken out in the interim.

One of them is going to be test bed for newer chip powered doctrine,which is in it's last stage of development as we speak.
That would serve as message to other states,who are going to try standing up in 2nd Qt of this centuary.

Pakistan will need a bigger begging bowl before it can afford a squadron on F-35

Don't worry we would beg,we would rob and we would steal if it's needed but rest assured we won't let you be sarpanch of this region even in next few decades.

 

[MastanKhan]

with all due respect...from where do you suggest we could have extracted 150 k troops from our 500 k total Army. there are already gaps in our defences on bothe eastern and wetern borders. and even where there are no gaps the ratio of enemy and own troops is 3 to 1.
i know you would say as we have discussed in past that...Saudi or arab money would have financed raising of new forces etc, but thing is that they never asked for such a large force and they never intended to give away the driving seat. this is not the saudi arbia or UAE of 1970s. they want the driving seat for themselves with brigade or two from Pakistan , brigade or 2 from sudan, egypt, etc etc. All they ever asked for was a brigade plus size force which wouldnt have benefited us in the manner that you have described. Those countries are not naaive and backward baddus anymore ( well as far as geo politics is concerned), they are playing on a regional level now with their own military capabilities. UAE, Qatar, Saudia are actively involved in Yemen, Libya, Syria etc

Hi

I never said to extract 150 k troops.

you have to recruit and to train new troops.

you can get back some fresh retd nco’s.

mix fresh recruits with seasoned troops and rotate them them.

pak military can spare 20 k seasoned troops to start.

the gcc can send a loving message to india about interfering.

Only difficult part as always is the first step.

 

[blain2]

with all due respect...from where do you suggest we could have extracted 150 k troops from our 500 k total Army. there are already gaps in our defences on bothe eastern and wetern borders. and even where there are no gaps the ratio of enemy and own troops is 3 to 1.
i know you would say as we have discussed in past that...Saudi or arab money would have financed raising of new forces etc, but thing is that they never asked for such a large force and they never intended to give away the driving seat. this is not the saudi arbia or UAE of 1970s. they want the driving seat for themselves with brigade or two from Pakistan , brigade or 2 from sudan, egypt, etc etc. All they ever asked for was a brigade plus size force which wouldnt have benefited us in the manner that you have described. Those countries are not naaive and backward baddus anymore ( well as far as geo politics is concerned), they are playing on a regional level now with their own military capabilities. UAE, Qatar, Saudia are actively involved in Yemen, Libya, Syria etc

You are absolutely right. Your response to the khiyaali pulao making is quite apt.

Most speak without realizing the basics of the situation. God bless the Pakistani leadership for not stepping into the minefield that is Yemen.

To hell with Saudi and Emerati funds (not saying to hell with Saudis and Emeratis as they are indeed good friends of Pakistan and deserving of our support) to buy new squadrons of 4.5 gen aircraft and funding a mercenary outfit within Pakistan's armed forces when the result of these funds could be that our nation would be torn from inside.

The champions here that offer their amazing opinions (for free of course) have no idea what happened when Pakistan decided to take up the GWOT and went to war in the tribal areas. I will even say that decision perhaps was more of a situation of survival, but the war in Yemen has been a complete mess even by Saudi/Khaleeji standards and Pakistan has no role to play there. To this day, Egyptians look at Pakistan negatively for the Suez invasion support we provided to the Brits etc. because we were part of CENTO/SEATO. Do we want the same with Yemen and its shi'aa friends?

The Saudis themselves are looking for a way out and Pakistan would have been the worst of friends to goad them into more war by sending men and material into that never-ending inferno.

All this idiotic, tactical talk about building up the military is meaningless when the insides have been corroded. That is what will happen to Pakistan if the Sunni-Shi'aa fissures are given oxygen by Pakistan stepping into the Yemen war. I sincerely thank Almighty Allah for the US-Iran war not happening. Had that happened and somehow Saudi Arabia had been dragged into it, Pakistan would have had hell to pay for. Both externally, open enmity with Iran, and internally with 60M Shias in Pakistan looking at the decision of the GoP as a betrayal.

We cannot afford to do this. This would be worse than both the Afghan war and the GWOT combined for Pakistan.

Instead of Trumpian war strategies (not based in reality or well-informed), we should pray that Pakistan never has to pick sides because neither KSA nor Iran are fighting for their very survival. This is about a game of regional influence and Pakistan cannot afford to let its own homefront burn so others can play out their domination games. We have suffered through this during Afghan war siding with the super powers. Let's not get played now by regional powers.
The BEST thing that Pakistan can do is to play peacemaker between KSA and Iran. Even if these two countries do not realize it now, down the road they will appreciate it if they can avoid getting into a conflagration.

 

[Path-Finder]

#sendthewitchpacking

 

[k s ahmed]

Hi,

Cowardice makes you neutral---otherwise no man is born neutral---including women---.

Pakistan showed extreme cowardice staying neutral in the last 5 + years starting with the Yemen crisis---.

And now pakistan does not have a foothold to stand on---. It is literally begging around looking for help to save its economy and is finding out that there are no takers.

Iran---shooting down the aircraft have shot themselves in the foot and any aggression and posturing on their part has fizzled out---.

Even though a lots of TALKERS on this forum and in pakistan claimed big talk about what Iran would do---but those two SA missiles just completely shut down Iran.

Pakistan was somewhat counting on that.

And Imran Khan was somewhat NAIVE to tell the americans in the US to be wary pf Iran because the iranians are tougher than the afghans---.

That statement showed that Imran Khan had no clue how powerful a nation the US is militarily and how its military responds proportionately against the enemy's threats and assets---meaning not all all enemies be retaliated with a similar kind of force and weapons---.

If today---pakistan had 150000 troops stationed in different blocks of GCC---this crisis would not have come up at all---.

150 K troops would have brought in at least 250000 to 400000 extra civilian jobs in the GCC---well paying jobs---.

So---with close to 500000 new jobs would have resulted in a house building boom in pakistan---. Let us say 250000 new houses---.

The govt report says that for every new house build---it creates 40 new jobs---that is in just one area---.

The US agenda for pakistan is only known to the US---right now it is build up on SHIFTING SANDS and there is a total lack of stability in it---and it is reflective of the internal and external policies of the US---.

The america of today has become extremely unpredictable---hot one minute---cold the other---.

It is about time that pakistan change its policy of neutrality---. It is high time to move away from our neighbor Iran and associate ourselves openly with the GCC---.

Iran is at its weakest today with a massive internal turmoil due to its own doings---any support of staying neutral means that pakistan would be supporting Iran's Agenda.

Pakistan needs to move out of this " CURSED " situation---make a choice---think of pakistan first and ally with benefactors who have supported Pakistan throughout its existence with all the moral and financial help possible---.

Alice Wells has an agenda---she had clearly spoken her mind about pakistan awhile ago and it was not very pleasant---. That is her real stand---. Now if the US needs pakistan---she will make a temporary adjustment in that position---but that stance would stay temporary till she may want to change it for the next crisis---which who knows is headed to what direction---.

@jaibi ---sir if that is not your article---please post a link to that article---. The disclaimer in the bottom is not enough---.

So.y9u are saying that we should sell our army as USA has done , to Saudi ? We go to middle East for what ? Do we have money for war ?
Or army is a mercenary ?

 

[MastanKhan]

So.y9u are saying that we should sell our army as USA has done , to Saudi ? We go to middle East for what ? Do we have money for war ?
Or army is a mercenary ?

son

all armies are mercenary armies be they led by Khalid Bin Waleed, Tariq Bin Ziyyad, Mohammad Bin Qasim, Mahmood Ghaznavi, Ghauri, or anyone else.

Read your history young nan read your history.

if pakistani soldiers knew how much GCC would pay them to fight and if they had an option—-Sonny boy—-you would not find one single pakistani soldier protecting pakistani border.

They would all be in the GCC—-.

so you better get off the perch you are sitting on.

 

[313ghazi]

Hi,

You have to survive short term to be able to think of surviving for a long term---.

Otherwise your enemy would never let you have economic stability---as is so evident from what is happening with Pakistan---.

It is just like thinking about your plans of what you will be doing after you get your PhD done---but you have yet to clear 12th grade in college---.

Iran would be paying 10 to 20 thousand ruppees to pakistani shia mercenary boys---. The GCC could be paying maybe a 100000 plus a month.

If Pak did not go in yemen 5 years ago---it still can go now---. Iran is in no position to pull the plug---. But the GCC still needs pak assistance---.

Our border problems are going to stay the same if we go to GCC or not---. That fear should not stop us from doing what is beneficial for the better economy of the nation---.

For GCC---Pk military will create / recruit a separate fighting force all funded by the GCC. If in the process we can build up a 100-150 k extra troops in GCC and all equipment funded by GCC---where then lies the problem---.

Your forefathers 300 years ago did not think of it the way pakistanis are thinking now---.

Iran is worth two nuc strikes if worse came to worst and no one in the world would blink an eye over the demise of iranian regime---.

I can certainly see the merits of your perspective. I just don't think any of our leadership class has the courage to take such a bold step or the mettle to handle what might come out of it. There are endless examples in the last 20 years where we could have benefited from taking greater risk.

 

[MastanKhan]

Hi,

Who has not seen the serial Ertugrul---?

How does his father Suleiman Shah establishes the virtues of his tribe in a hostile land under hostile conditions---.

By offering the services of his fighters to a weak muslim king whose army is weak & can't fight the christian neighbors---.

And yes there were " traitors " amongst their ranks as well---who were against helping the weak muslim king---for grasslands and trade in return of military support .

The drama Ertugrul truly represents Pakistan as it sits today---same characters---though more traitors and cowards in pakistan than brave take charge type men---.

Tragically no pakistani of the caliber and character of Suleiman Shah in the ranks---.

Without Suleiman Shah---there would be no Ertugrul Bey---.

 

[mingle]

Hi,

Who has not seen the serial Ertugrul---?

How does his father Suleiman Shah establishes the virtues of his tribe in a hostile land under hostile conditions---.

By offering the services of his fighters to a weak muslim king whose army is weak & can't fight the christian neighbors---.

And yes there were " traitors " amongst their ranks as well---who were against helping the weak muslim king---for grasslands and trade in return of military support .

The drama Ertugrul truly represents Pakistan as it sits today---same characters---though more traitors and cowards in pakistan than brave take charge type men---.

Tragically no pakistani of the caliber and character of Suleiman Shah in the ranks---.

Without Suleiman Shah---there would be no Ertugrul Bey---.

I didn't but I know turkish History very very well

The way I see US Pak relationships is going Up swing again Pak will get all what she looking for from US

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I didn't but I know turkish History very very well

The way I see US Pak relationships is going Up swing again Pak will get all what she looking for from US

You have nailed it down properly!!! It's a "WAR" b/w the Christians and the Pagans of Rome to control Rome!!! Pak has to chose the winning horse!!! Now, how to do it????? There are ways, and I'm not going to the details!!! Rest assured Pak will chose the right horse by HIS PERMISSION...

 

[Vasher]

Hi,

Thank you for putting those names up---.

The countries are EARTHWORM countries---have no impact on military standings---.

Turkey declared war on Germany in 1945 february---. They were hurt bad in the first world war.


If Turkey had the power that pakistan has---it would be a different nation.

I have stated many a times---pakistanis see themselves as innocent children---" don't bother us---we don't bother anyone "---and these children have no clue what powers they yield---.

Pakistan has close to two hundred nuc weapons---it is military super power of the region---. It is the 7th or 8th most militarily powerful nation of the world---and yet its citizens act like WEAKLINGS---.

For that very reason---I am a firm believer that most of the WARRIOR MUSLIM CLANS OF THE SUB CONTINENT were decimated by the british east india company after they took control of the sub continent some 200 years + ago---.

And many of the remaining were killed during the 1947 partition---. Some warrior clans who escaped from the british hid in the jungles of punjab---many were sold out to the british by the current Multani Landlords---.

The lower caste converted muslims took the names of the warring caste and acted like them---but the genetic make up was not the same---and every time---a military crisis looms on the country---they become active against the welfare of Pakistan.

You should be ashamed and embarrassed to give the examples of the weakest countries staying out of war and then PRANCING and STRUTTING over your examples.

Israel---a weakling nation in 1967---its very existence depended on victories in war---.

Britain a financially broke nation after the Napoleone war---declared wars thru its proxy in a different world---africa---sub continent and other parts of asia---.

And those countries you mentioned---the reason they did not go to war was to make money from war---thru refugees who rushed to these countries and transferred their wealth to those countries.

Again---I am concerned at the mind set of the pakistanis---to claim themselves to be equal in strength with the weakest nations of europe rather than those making decisions of power positioning and getting the rewards---.

What a defeatist mindset and thought---.

Chest thumping and war cry's aren,t what is going to help us here. You must be able to correctly assess what you are capable of or not.Right now pissing off Iran or USA is not in our interest.We are standing in a literal finanical ruin because of Darrr-Ling Fiasco's. Relations are normalizing with GCC countries.SO hold your horses.

Now is the time to build ourselves economical and diplomatically.

"The Strong will do what they can and the weak will suffer what they must".

And this is the price we must pay for being weak.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

Hi,

Who has not seen the serial Ertugrul---?

How does his father Suleiman Shah establishes the virtues of his tribe in a hostile land under hostile conditions---.

By offering the services of his fighters to a weak muslim king whose army is weak & can't fight the christian neighbors---.

And yes there were " traitors " amongst their ranks as well---who were against helping the weak muslim king---for grasslands and trade in return of military support .

The drama Ertugrul truly represents Pakistan as it sits today---same characters---though more traitors and cowards in pakistan than brave take charge type men---.

Tragically no pakistani of the caliber and character of Suleiman Shah in the ranks---.

Without Suleiman Shah---there would be no Ertugrul Bey---.

Don't know about others, but Turkey would have definitely gone for that, in her own terms though....