Al-Khalid & Type 99 Comparison

[Interceptor]

I just read it I knew that AK could attack moving tanks but the "Hunter killer" thats something I didn't come across.

 

[zraver]

Its a pretty common capability in modern tanks.

AK:

The commander is provided with a two-axis stabilised hunter-killer panoramic sight while the gunner has a two-axis stabilised fixed roof-mounted sight. The image stabilised fire-control system (ISFCS) includes a laser rangefinder integrated into the gunner's sight, control panel, ballistic computer and a sensor for crosswind, tilt and angular velocity. This, together with the stabilised 125 mm gun and roof-mounted stabilised sights, enables the Al-Khalid to engage stationary and moving targets while it is stationary or moving. If required, the tank commander can take over and lay and fire the main armament. Target engagement time, stationary to stationary target is quoted as seven seconds, while on the move 10 seconds.

Commander's sight Specs:

Panoramic, Bi-axis stabilised, LRF, 2nd Generation IIT Hunter-Killer Capability

A couple of notes is that a true H/K system needs 1- to be able to remember where targets are. This way it can hunt (commander searching for targets) and kill (gunner finding presighted targets). It also needs 2- a commanders laser ranger to be truly effective. Poorer (budget wise) nations like Pakistan or China who have large fleets to modernize will skimp on some of these features to save money. IIRc the original version of the Abrams A2 could remember 11 targets in its memory.

On the issue of ammo,

interceptor wrote,

Pakistan doesnt use Chinnese rounds in its tanks THATs COMPLETELY confirmed I know that very very well, Pakistan develops its own shells that are sold around the world to Europe and middle east blablah. His calculations are bassed on the chinnese round or shells not pakistani shells you should go on the POW site and check what type of rounds are develop.

I don't doubt Pakistan has a robust arms sector, but the claim made was that Pakistan sells mainguns rounds to Europe. Interceptor also makes a very easily refutred claim that Pakistani shells ar enot like Chinese ones. That is utter BS. there are only a very limited numbe rof gun styles to choose from. 85mm, 100mm, 115mm, 125mm from Russia. And 90mm, 105mm, 120mm Rifled, and 120mm smothbore from Westenr firms. When comparing leading edge rounds 120/125 you have only a limite dnumber of styles to choose from. Sabot Style- either bore riding or spool. if your using a 125mm gun without an upgraded autoloader your also stuck to short round penetrators witha L/D of about 16/1. using 120mm or upgraded 125mm you can stretch that out to about 30/1 which while somewhat less effiecent (in tha tit take smore joules per mm of RHAe) is more effective as increased mass and durability offer the ability to penetrate about 1.25-1.4x's the penetrators leangth in RHAe dpending on gun specs and materials used in the round itself.

Pakistan uses a spool style 125mm DU round under 560mm in leangth probably weighing in at no more than 4-5kg in weight after the sabot.

2.5*1750^2= 7,656,250j Assuming 16/1 LD and with an implied eficency of 10,150joules per mm of RHAe (which is better performace than any round in the world has ever demonstrated BTW) 7,656,250/10,100= 758mm of RHAe penetration. Assuming upto a negative 20% variation becuase i don't have any claims to work with or hard data on the round (it wont exceed the 758mm on the positve side). the rounds performance will be somewhere between 600 and 750mm of penetration vs RHAe. This is comparable to the Russian BM-42 or similar rounds in use by the Indian Army. Like the AK, the T-90s doe snot have the new upgrade autloader to handle the BM-42M (although they could be retrofitted)

 

[Interceptor]

"A couple of notes is that a true H/K system needs 1- to be able to remember where targets are. This way it can hunt (commander searching for targets) and kill (gunner finding presighted targets). It also needs 2- a commanders laser ranger to be truly effective. Poorer (budget wise) nations like Pakistan or China who have large fleets to modernize will skimp on some of these features to save money. IIRc the original version of the Abrams A2 could remember 11 targets in its memory."

Speculation.
Whats so hard about building a Nand gate memory

The POW selling arms to the world and the part about shells I wont boast about the POW but Europe and America if you logicaly think about it they wont buy GUNS and Weapons they have exellent facilities to produce better guns but they will buy ammo and shells which are very cheap compared to European and American ammo/shells so thats why I said they are sold around the world.

And by the way I aint going to argue I am going to tell you Pakistani shells are not Chinnese they are produced and are unique the facility was build by the AMERICANS do you think we will have Chinnese rounds.

At the momment I have to go through on it and I will ask my teachers about this Calculation and then confirm it to you.

 

[zraver]

Why would they skimp, to save money. With national budgets only totaling tens of billions of dollars a penny saved is a penny earned. The states lsited for the AK earlier by a fellow poster stated that the AK had only a single laser designator.

I never claimed the shells were Chinese, but the rounds are 125mm and fired through a Chinese gun. You howeve rmade the claim the PoF exported tank rounds to Europe.

 

[blain2]

Not sure of the memory...however AK may already have some capability to do so. The BMS that is being tried out on AKs (Rahbar) also allows for considerable target tracking and designation capability to be done digitally but that is more so for developing and evolving the battlefield tactical situation.

One other point, the POF 105mm round is a licensed copy of the Royal Ordnance 105mm round.

 

[Keysersoze]

Bro. It doesn't necessarily mean we export tank ammunition, I believe it will be small arms (rifles, Bullets and other things). Since Turkey still buys NATO standard ammo from us including the G-36. Check out the website to see whats made like hand grenades, motors, etc. The company also makes commercial products.

To get a full report you have to ask on PakDef.info they have the report somewhere remember seeing it awhile ago (not the one where it shows quantity made).

Are you sure regards the G-36 upgrade for the weapons?

Also whilst the The AK may not be able to handle a fight with a modern western tank, it can handle most of the current inventory of India (with whom there is a higher likelihood of hostilities).

The level of upgrades (re:the hunter killer system etc) is an interesting one. Since the tank is going to save some money (because it is produced in Pak) then perhaps they can afford more capable optics and battle management systems. There are only 300 tanks slated for production at the moment which is hardly the same as China (with thousands of tanks to replace/upgrade) The Al Zarrar upgrade should also save a bit of money as well.

 

[Keysersoze]

UAE SEEKS PAKISTAN BMS

LONDON [MENL] -- The United Arab Emirates been discussing a major project that would deliver a Pakistani battle management system to Abu Dhabi's ground forces.

Industry sources said the UAE Army and Islamabad have been negotiating to acquire a Pakistani BMS that would link main battle tanks, armored personnel carriers and combat vehicles in Abu Dhabi's military. The sources said the system would be capable of forming a network comprised of a range of Western platforms in the UAE land forces and would not require the purchase of Pakistani military platforms.

The Pakistani system was identified as the Integrated Battlefield Management System. The network was meant to link armored forces and provide them with situational awareness and identity friend, foe capability.

The sources said the Pakistani system was not as advanced as Western networks and could not be regarded as network-centric warfare. The system was said to employ Very High and Ultra High Frequency radio communications, with each vehicle capable of serving as a relay.

http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2005/january/01_03_1.html

Also I "borrowed" a pic from someone on another forum!

 

[con]

UAE SEEKS PAKISTAN BMS

http://www.menewsline.com/stories/2005/january/01_03_1.html

Also I "borrowed" a pic from someone on another forum!

Keys,
There is something strange about the BMS image.

Also please observe the details on the button.
what is "Erase Object" and "Send Msg" ??

And what is "You are new a server" on the right hand bottom??

 

[Keysersoze]

Keys,
There is something strange about the BMS image.

Also please observe the details on the button.
what is "Erase Object" and "Send Msg" ??

And what is "You are new a server" on the right hand bottom??

It is "you are NOW a server" but as to the technical details I cannot answer as I have no experience of BMS systems. Perhaps Zraver can shed some light ob this as he has had experience with this type of kit.

 

[pak_army]

Al-khalid is one of the best is business...
its power/weight ratio is 26hp/tonne which is highest in world...
its one of the lightest tanks in the world,which increases its manuverability...
The Al-Khalid has modular composite armour and explosive reactive armour, nuclear-biological-chemical defences, an effective thermal smoke generator, internal fire extinguisher and explosion-suppression system....
it accelerates from 0-30km/h in under 10 seconds...

The automatic ammunition-handling system for the main gun has a 24-round ready-to-fire magazine and can load and fire at a rate of eight rounds per minute.

The gunner is provided with a dual magnification day sight and the commander with a panoramic sight for all-around independent surveillance. Both sights are dual-axis image stabilized and have independent laser range finders. The commander has the ability to acquire a target independently while the gunner is engaging another one. The automatic target-tracking system is designed to work when tank and target are both moving. Night vision for the gunner and commander is achieved through a dual-magnification thermal imaging sight. Both sites are integrated with the fire-control system.

The Norinco fire-control system has inputs from ten sensors. The ballistic computation time is less than one second. The manufacturer claims routine first round hits on standard 8 ft × 8 ft targets at ranges over 2,000 meters.

Effective range: 200 m to 5,000 m
Sensor: laser ranging from 200 m to 9,990 m
Auto-tracking, firing four types of munitions, gunner's thermal imaging sight, commander's image intensification night vision sight, gyro-stabilized and UPS power supply system.

AL-khalid 2 will be hellova of a tank...it would be far superior than T-90,
M1A1/2,challenger 2,Leapord......

 

[con]

Al-khalid is one of the best is business...
its power/weight ratio is 26hp/tonne which is highest in world...
its one of the lightest tanks in the world,which increases its manuverability...

with due respect to this "manuverability.." thing, there is no point of having the ability to run around at high speed,if it cannot shot at those speeds due to torsion bar suspension. Problems of T-series and it's derivatives

AL-khalid 2 will be hellova of a tank...it would be far superior than T-90,
M1A1/2,challenger 2,Leapord......

so when is it coming out?

 

[blain2]

It is "you are NOW a server" but as to the technical details I cannot answer as I have no experience of BMS systems. Perhaps Zraver can shed some light ob this as he has had experience with this type of kit.

Its essentially a computer with memory for file storage and access. It could simply be a function of that.

 

[kvLin]

Take a break

ATGM VS Tank

A ZTZ99 (Type 99) main battle tank was hit by a HJ-9 semi-active laser-guided anti-tank missile during a test
[YOUTUBE]

In an earlier testfire the target was a variant of T72, the HJ-9 bombed off the entire barbette of the poor beast.

HJ-9 and the 4X4 AAV are standard equipment of Chinese paratroops.

 

[Keysersoze]

Take a break

ATGM VS Tank

A ZTZ99 (Type 99) main battle tank was hit by a HJ-9 semi-active laser-guided anti-tank missile during a test
[YOUTUBE]

In an earlier testfire the target was a variant of T72, the HJ-9 bombed off the entire barbette of the poor beast.

HJ-9 and the 4X4 AAV are standard equipment of Chinese paratroops.

Always take video's of such tests with a pinch of salt Kvlin. Sometimes missile developers put explosives into tanks in order to make their missile seem more impressive (A good example of this is the Javelin video floating around the iinternet)

The 4x4 AAV is familiar to me as I do like to play battlefield2!

 

[PakSniper]

The 4x4 AAV is familiar to me as I do like to play battlefield2!

:lol1: Key's I applaud your knowledge of simulation testing.