Akinci & Aksungur and Turkish Unmanned Fighter Aircraft Program

[Beny Karachun]

TIHA-B (Turkey) > TIHA-A (Turkey) > HERON (Israel) > ÇALDIRAN (Turkey)

Note: Israel's Heron's termal cameras and day-night cameras are UNQUALIFIED!
Turkey's 10 Heron (purchased from Israel) use Turkish termal cameras and day-night cameras (ASELFLIR-300). ASELFLIR-300 is made by ASELSAN of Turkey. Also, ASELSAN increased from biggest 93th (2009) to biggest 86th (2010) defence company in the world according to US's Defence News periodical.

By ASELFLIR-300, one can read the watch on arm of a terrorist from 7 kms above.

Turkey's Heron's Problems (THE NECESSITY OF PRODUCING HIGH-TECH WEAPONS NATIONALLY MOTIVATED TURKEY TO START UAV PROGRAM IN 1992):
1. Turkey requested 30 000 feet max altitude according to contract. But, Herons did NOT reach to 30 000 feet. Israel side said: "Turkey put ASELFLIR 300 on Heron, and therefore Heron cannot reach to 30000 feet".
[30 000 feet: Short range missiles canNOT reach 30 000 feet. Short range missiles CAN reach 20 000 - 22 000 feet. Hence, max altitude is VERY IMPORTANT].
2. Turkey's obus (FIRTINA) hit the targets that Herons showed 500m-1 km falsely. Turkey's obus (FIRTINA) hit the targets that Turkey's own UAV (Bayraktar and Gözcü) showed 100% precisely and 100% accurately.

SO: These 2 errata of Herons are whether due to "Software meddling (interference to software code)" or "Physical incomptence really" is still UNKNOWN really.

Turkey will NOT buy any more Herons after June 2010. Turkey built TIHA UAV. TIHA UAV (loaded with ASELFLIR) can easily reach to 30 000 feet! TIHA-B UAV will have Turkish Cirit missiles (with fire and forget capacity). Turkey's Cirit proved superiority to US's Hellfire and Israel's Spike on early 2010 (January 12th 2010: Roketsan's Cirit is the first laser guided 2.75" rockets to engage moving targets. Cirit successfully engaged a moving target travelling at 60 km/h while the platform (AH-1W Cobra) it was fired from was moving at 120 knots (222 km/h).).

Also, Baykar's ÇALDIRAN said "We can pass Heron completely with the same electronics and avionics with a bigger vehicle. Turkish Army requested us a vehicle with 22 000 feet. If Turkish Army had said more altitude (i.e. 30 000 feet), we would have produced that as well".

Already, ÇALDIRAN's has some features that Herons do NOT have: For example:

COMPARISON OF ÇALDIRAN (TURKEY) AND HERON (ISRAEL)
Features: Returning back to home when communication lost *** Agresive manuevres
ÇALDIRAN: YES *** YES
HERON: NO *** NO

TIHA-A will go out of hangar on 16.07.2010 (This Friday).

Pakistan Defence Minister (he is in Turkey in 14.07.2010 ) will honorize us if he participate TIHA-A Ceromony on 16.07.2010 (This Friday)

 

[Beny Karachun]

TIHA-B (Turkey) > TIHA-A (Turkey) > HERON (Israel) > ÇALDIRAN (Turkey)

Note: Israel's Heron's termal cameras and day-night cameras are UNQUALIFIED!
Turkey's 10 Heron (purchased from Israel) use Turkish termal cameras and day-night cameras (ASELFLIR-300). ASELFLIR-300 is made by ASELSAN of Turkey. Also, ASELSAN increased from biggest 93th (2009) to biggest 86th (2010) defence company in the world according to US's Defence News periodical.

By ASELFLIR-300, one can read the watch on arm of a terrorist from 7 kms above.

Turkey's Heron's Problems (THE NECESSITY OF PRODUCING HIGH-TECH WEAPONS NATIONALLY MOTIVATED TURKEY TO START UAV PROGRAM IN 1992):
1. Turkey requested 30 000 feet max altitude according to contract. But, Herons did NOT reach to 30 000 feet. Israel side said: "Turkey put ASELFLIR 300 on Heron, and therefore Heron cannot reach to 30000 feet".
[30 000 feet: Short range missiles canNOT reach 30 000 feet. Short range missiles CAN reach 20 000 - 22 000 feet. Hence, max altitude is VERY IMPORTANT].
2. Turkey's obus (FIRTINA) hit the targets that Herons showed 500m-1 km falsely. Turkey's obus (FIRTINA) hit the targets that Turkey's own UAV (Bayraktar and Gözcü) showed 100% precisely and 100% accurately.

SO: These 2 errata of Herons are whether due to "Software meddling (interference to software code)" or "Physical incomptence really" is still UNKNOWN really.

Turkey will NOT buy any more Herons after June 2010. Turkey built TIHA UAV. TIHA UAV (loaded with ASELFLIR) can easily reach to 30 000 feet! TIHA-B UAV will have Turkish Cirit missiles (with fire and forget capacity). Turkey's Cirit proved superiority to US's Hellfire and Israel's Spike on early 2010 (January 12th 2010: Roketsan's Cirit is the first laser guided 2.75" rockets to engage moving targets. Cirit successfully engaged a moving target travelling at 60 km/h while the platform (AH-1W Cobra) it was fired from was moving at 120 knots (222 km/h).).

Also, Baykar's ÇALDIRAN said "We can pass Heron completely with the same electronics and avionics with a bigger vehicle. Turkish Army requested us a vehicle with 22 000 feet. If Turkish Army had said more altitude (i.e. 30 000 feet), we would have produced that as well".

Already, ÇALDIRAN's has some features that Herons do NOT have: For example:

COMPARISON OF ÇALDIRAN (TURKEY) AND HERON (ISRAEL)
Features: Returning back to home when communication lost *** Agresive manuevres
ÇALDIRAN: YES *** YES
HERON: NO *** NO

TIHA-A will go out of hangar on 16.07.2010 (This Friday).

Pakistan Defence Minister (he is in Turkey in 14.07.2010 ) will honorize us if he participate TIHA-A Ceromony on 16.07.2010 (This Friday)

Israeli optics are superior... You are comparing 2010s and 2020s optics against Israel's late 90s optics. Compare them to modern Israeli optics.

Israeli Heron is from 1994, you are boasting about creating more powerful drones than it... Compare it to more modern Eitan, Heron-TP-XP, Hermes 900 drones.

CIRIT rockets vs hellfire and Spike? Spike outrange any guided rocket, Spike NLOS 6th generation has air launched range of 50 kilometers and a warhead that can defeat a tank from any angle, and has a high angle top attack mode. CIRIT missiles will not penetrate the front of a tank, and don't have top attack mode for targets far away.

Also, CIRIT have no advantage on Israeli GATR or American APKWS rockets

 

[MMM-E]

CIRIT rockets vs hellfire and Spike? Spike outrange any guided rocket, Spike NLOS 6th generation has air launched range of 50 kilometers and a warhead that can defeat a tank from any angle, and has a high angle top attack mode. CIRIT missiles will not penetrate the front of a tank, and don't have top attack mode for targets far away.

Also, CIRIT have no advantage on Israeli GATR or American APKWS rockets

Turkish UCAVs to carry superior weapons to destroy any Tank in the world

30 km MAM-T laser guided munition
40 km KUZGUN-KY missile
50 km SDB IIR guided munition
180+ km KUZGUN-TJ missile

And not only ASELFLIR-300T
but also ASELFLIR-600T new gen E/O System with 1280×1024 HD MWIR camera, 1920x1080p higher resolution day vision camera, SWIR camera, Laser Range Finder, Laser Target Marker and Laser Pointer

 

[Beny Karachun]

Turkish UCAVs to carry superior weapons to destroy any Tank in the world

30 km MAM-T laser guided munition
40 km KUZGUN-KY missile
50 km SDB IIR guided munition
180+ km KUZGUN-TJ missile

View attachment 875924
View attachment 875925
View attachment 875926



And not only ASELFLIR-300T
but also ASELFLIR-600T new gen E/O System with 1280×1024 HD MWIR camera, 1920x1080p higher resolution day vision camera, SWIR camera, Laser Range Finder, Laser Target Marker and Laser Pointer

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Spike NLOS outranges all munitions you have while also having a top attack mode and TV guidance capability:

6th generation Spike missile has a 50km range when airlaunched

Spice 250 ER mini cruise missile, range of at least 150+ kilometers:

Regular Spice 250, 100km range glide bomb:

Sea Breaker, 300km cruise missile/antiship missile:

Turkish UCAVs to carry superior weapons to destroy any Tank in the world

No top attack mode means APS will easily destroy incoming ATGMs

 

[merzifonlu]

No top attack mode means APS will easily destroy incoming ATGMs

You cannot guarantee that it will easily block. A power capable of producing ATGMs always thinks of ways to bypass APSs. The race never ends.

I agree that Israel is one click ahead of us in terms of smart munitions. Maybe a few more clicks on sensors. But we're moving pretty fast.

In general, we have 2 main bottlenecks in the defense industry in technical terms. Engines and processors. The engine issue will be completely resolved within 10 years. I'm more pessimistic about processors. It seems to me that a radical and risky approach is required, if we want results in a short time.

Politically bottleneck for Turkiye is Islamism. Islamism creates problems in domestic politics as well as in foreign policy. For example, the AKP has managed to unite the states that are fighting with each other, in their opposition to Turkiye on Syria.

 

[dBSPL]

Kuzgun-TJ will also be certified for ATAK-II.
Weight less than 85 kg
Its range from 20k feet 0.2 mach flying platform is +180 km.
Seeker : SAL/IIR EW
Navigation: GPS - INS(CRPA) + Seeker
TOF less than 60 minutes
2022 last quarter actual shooting tests, 2023 active inventory acceptance target

 

[Beny Karachun]

You cannot guarantee that it will easily block. A power capable of producing ATGMs always thinks of ways to bypass APSs. The race never ends.

I agree that Israel is one click ahead of us in terms of smart munitions. Maybe a few more clicks on sensors. But we're moving pretty fast.

In general, we have 2 main bottlenecks in the defense industry in technical terms. Engines and processors. The engine issue will be completely resolved within 10 years. I'm more pessimistic about processors. It seems to me that a radical and risky approach is required, if we want results in a short time.

Politically bottleneck for Turkiye is Islamism. Islamism creates problems in domestic politics as well as in foreign policy. For example, the AKP has managed to unite the states that are fighting with each other, in their opposition to Turkiye on Syria.

There are only 2 ways to bypass APS, one is launching 2 or more consecutive ATGMs, which is not always possible and might not work (IR smoke+ Soft kill APS + hard kill APS have a decent chance against such an attack)

Second is very high angle top attack mode (more than Javelin), which seems to be the Achilles heel for today's APS. Turkish ATGMs seem to be capable of hitting the top of the tanks from high angles just when the drone is right above the tanks, but appear to be incapable of top attack for distant targets.

Closing technological gaps when having access to many open source existing technologies is good but not very difficult, the hard thing is being the frontier of innovation.

While Turkey appear to reach a high level of technological advancement, the real challenge is still ahead of you.

 

[merzifonlu]

Turkish ATGMs seem to be capable of hitting the top of the tanks from high angles just when the drone is right above the tanks, but appear to be incapable of top attack for distant targets.

No. Very capable, trust me.

the real challenge is still ahead of you.

I completelly agree.

 

[Beny Karachun]

No. Very capable, trust me.

As long as they're laser guided, like the the munitions MME showed, they can't reliably hit the top of a tank from far away, because the laser designation can't easily be accurately placed on top of the tank. Let alone hitting from high attack angles, let alone when the tank is moving. Also, if there is no direct line of sight, the missile is useless.

This is the biggest advantage of the Spike NLOS. No line of sight is required.

 

[merzifonlu]

As long as they're laser guided, like the the munitions MME showed, they can't reliably hit the top of a tank from far away, because the laser designation can't easily be accurately placed on top of the tank. Let alone hitting from high attack angles, let alone when the tank is moving. Also, if there is no direct line of sight, the missile is useless.

This is the biggest advantage of the Spike NLOS. No line of sight is required.

Do you seriously think SAL is the only guidance technique we have?

We are also good at IIR guidance technique, don't worry. We have ammunition using IIR techniques such as Sungur, Hisar-O, OMTAS, UMTAS, Kuzgun and many more. We also used the microwave radar guidance technique in Hisar-R.

We used SAL most often because the more expensive one was not needed. In front of us were terrorist organizations such as PKK and ISIS or Russian tin cans.

 

[Oldman1]

AMPS-NG:

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View attachment 876008
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View attachment 876007


Spike NLOS outranges all munitions you have while also having a top attack mode and TV guidance capability:
View attachment 876011


6th generation Spike missile has a 50km range when airlaunched

Spice 250 ER mini cruise missile, range of at least 150+ kilometers:
View attachment 876013


Regular Spice 250, 100km range glide bomb:
View attachment 876014


Sea Breaker, 300km cruise missile/antiship missile:
View attachment 876020


No top attack mode means APS will easily destroy incoming ATGMs

That should be something the USAF and Navy should invest in. A JDAM-ER with a jet powered engine.

 

[MMM-E]

Turkish UCAVs become the most heavily armed UCAVs in the World




İsraeli UCAVs dont carry SPIKE-NLOS , Ice Beaker , Rampage , Spice-250ER , etc

American MQ-9 and Chinese Wing Loong-II UCAVs armed with only 12-25 km laser guided missiles and bombs

Spike NLOS outranges all munitions you have while also having a top attack mode and TV guidance capability:

max 50 km SPIKE NLOS ?

180+ km KUZGUN-TJ is coming to carry by Turkish UCAVs and Helicopters

Range : 180+ km
Weight: 85 kg
Warhead : 14 kg
Guidance : IIR

AKINCI UCAV can carry 16 UMTAS anti Tank Missiles ( top attack capability )
range of 16 km

MAM-T laser guided munition to hit moving targets

Range : 30 km
Weight : 95 kg

55 km KGK-82 SIHA guided Bomb

Weight : 700 kg
Guidance : INS - GPS
laser seeker head for terminal phase guidance

Spice 250 ER mini cruise missile, range of at least 150+ kilometers:

-- 180+ km KUZGUN-TJ Missile
-- 150 km CAKIR mini Cruise Missile

Regular Spice 250, 100km range glide bomb:

You are talking about 100 km range when drop from Fighter Jets


-- ASELSAN' glide Bomb with IIR seeker
Range : 110 km from Fighter Jets and 50 km from UCAVs

Smart Pneumatic Quad Rack with capability of carrying 4 SDBs

150+ km KGK-LR ( IIR seeker version of 110 km KGK glide Bomb ) under development

also Turkish UCAVs to carry 150 km TRLG-230 laser guided supersonic Missile

Weight : 210 kg
Warhead : 42 kg
Range : 150 km

even Special Forces can use laser target designator to guide TRLG-230 missile on enemy targets

even Unmanned Vessel can use laser target designator to guide TRLG-230 missile on enemy Warships

also Turkish UCAVs to carry ŞIMSEK Kamikaze Drone

Range : 200 km
Warhead : 5 kg
Speed : mach 0,6
Autonomous flight and GPS guidance allows it to destroy targets over long distances

Sea Breaker, 300km cruise missile/antiship missile:

AKINCI UCAV to carry SOM Cruise Missile with IIR seeker .. land attack/anti-ship

Range of SOM Cruise Missile was limited by 280 km .. because of using French turbojet engine

Turkish KTJ-3200 turbojet engine in mass production to power SOM Cruise Missile with range of 300+ km

AKINCI UCAV to carry AESA Radar and 100+ km GOKDOGAN air to air missiles

While Turkey appear to reach a high level of technological advancement, the real challenge is still ahead of you.

Turkish UCAV war doctrine changed the game

Tanks , Howitzers , IFVs , MLRS , Air Defense Systems even UCAVs ,Helicopters , Warships become easy target for Turkish UCAVs

 

[MMM-E]

KARGI anti-radiation Drone with EO/IR System

 

[Sapei]

Turkish UCAVs become the most heavily armed UCAVs in the World




İsraeli UCAVs dont carry SPIKE-NLOS , Ice Beaker , Rampage , Spice-250ER , etc

American MQ-9 and Chinese Wing Loong-II UCAVs armed with only 12-25 km laser guided missiles and bombs




max 50 km SPIKE NLOS ?

180+ km KUZGUN-TJ is coming to carry by Turkish UCAVs and Helicopters

Range : 180+ km
Weight: 85 kg
Warhead : 14 kg
Guidance : IIR

View attachment 876191


AKINCI UCAV can carry 16 UMTAS anti Tank Missiles ( top attack capability )
range of 16 km
View attachment 876197


MAM-T laser guided munition to hit moving targets

Range : 30 km
Weight : 95 kg
View attachment 876208


55 km KGK-82 SIHA guided Bomb

Weight : 700 kg
Guidance : INS - GPS
laser seeker head for terminal phase guidance

View attachment 876224




-- 180+ km KUZGUN-TJ Missile
-- 150 km CAKIR mini Cruise Missile

View attachment 876192




You are talking about 100 km range when drop from Fighter Jets


-- ASELSAN' glide Bomb with IIR seeker
Range : 110 km from Fighter Jets and 50 km from UCAVs

Smart Pneumatic Quad Rack with capability of carrying 4 SDBs
View attachment 876209
View attachment 876193


150+ km KGK-LR ( IIR seeker version of 110 km KGK glide Bomb ) under development
View attachment 876218


also Turkish UCAVs to carry 150 km TRLG-230 laser guided supersonic Missile

Weight : 210 kg
Warhead : 42 kg
Range : 150 km

even Special Forces can use laser target designator to guide TRLG-230 missile on enemy targets

even Unmanned Vessel can use laser target designator to guide TRLG-230 missile on enemy Warships
View attachment 876196


also Turkish UCAVs to carry ŞIMSEK Kamikaze Drone

Range : 200 km
Warhead : 5 kg
Speed : mach 0,6
Autonomous flight and GPS guidance allows it to destroy targets over long distances
View attachment 876212
View attachment 876213




AKINCI UCAV to carry SOM Cruise Missile with IIR seeker .. land attack/anti-ship

Range of SOM Cruise Missile was limited by 280 km .. because of using French turbojet engine

Turkish KTJ-3200 turbojet engine in mass production to power SOM Cruise Missile with range of 300+ km
View attachment 876210


AKINCI UCAV to carry AESA Radar and 100+ km GOKDOGAN air to air missiles
View attachment 876214






Turkish UCAV war doctrine changed the game

Tanks , Howitzers , IFVs , MLRS , Air Defense Systems even UCAVs ,Helicopters , Warships become easy target for Turkish UCAVs

Akinci is unrivaled in the world. No other drone offers such a huge envelope of munition options. Truely a game changer. Already export contracts signed with 4 countries with 5-6 more countries currently negotiating. Akinci is already a huge success.

 

[Beny Karachun]

İsraeli UCAVs dont carry SPIKE-NLOS , Ice Beaker , Rampage , Spice-250ER , etc

Who told you that? The fact Israeli drones were arned was kept classified until not too long ago. Eitan can easily carry all of those munitions and is carrying those munitions when needed.

I talked with drone mechanics, and jet mechanics as well, almost all sub 1 ton munitions in the IDF are interchangable with Eitan.

Akinci is unrivaled in the world. No other drone offers such a huge envelope of munition options. Truely a game changer. Already export contracts signed with 4 countries with 5-6 more countries currently negotiating. Akinci is already a huge success.

That's false.