Akinci & Aksungur and Turkish Unmanned Fighter Aircraft Program

[Balamir]

Thank you. Any information of thrust of the engine?

I try to find a turbofan engine that is suitable for a supersonic MALE/HALE UCAV on TEI website, but could not find one other than things like TEI TJ90 and some other engines with max. thrust between 90~300 ldf which is lacklustre for a supersonic UCAV even if they two engines will be employed for each UCAV.

Perhaps, something that is not listed on their official website?

The engines of the Göksungur project will be double turbojet. However, it is not clear whether the engines will be domestic or not. It can be done through the TS1400 core engine. We expect the project to be announced by the end of the year. Big surprises may come.

 

[SgtGungHo]

that is the core engine of TS1500. Turbojet variant

Thank you, but an engine core of turboshaft is not a turbojet engine. A company could theoretically utilize an engine core of other gasturbine engines to build different types of gasturbine engines, but the development still needs time, money and manpower to build one. One example would be French of trying to use the core engine of M88 to build a turboprop engine for A400M, which did not go very well for European (although it was mostly because of TP400 gearbox).

I am not sure Turkey is actually utilizing the core engine of TS1400 especially the turboshaft engine itself is still in development as it hasn't even begun a field test.

However, it is not something completely unheard of as RQ-4 Global Hawk's turbofan engine, RR AE3007 shares the same engine core with the company's turboshaft engine, RR (Alison) T406 which is an engine of V-22 Osprey.

Again, I am very much interested in the power output of this turbofan engine that would power the Turkish unmanned aerial vehicle. I would be appreciated if you could any information on that.

 

[SgtGungHo]

The engines of the Göksungur project will be double turbojet. However, it is not clear whether the engines will be domestic or not. It can be done through the TS1400 core engine. We expect the project to be announced by the end of the year. Big surprises may come.

I suspect it would be one of those Ukrainian turbofan engine as Turkey has already established a relationship with the country's gasturbine industry and already employs Ivchenko's turboprop engines for another UAV proejct, Akıncı.

What's curious about the Göksungur project is that it uses two engines, instead of one as all other Western UCAV employs only one turbofan engine.

I am excited with this experimental aircraft with two engines. I applaud Turkey of daring to be "different" (although most likely because the country couldn't get a reliable turbofan engine with high max. thrust).

 

[Balamir]

I suspect it would be one of those Ukrainian turbofan engine as Turkey has already established a relationship with the country's gasturbine industry and already employs Ivchenko's turboprop engines for another UAV proejct, Akıncı.

What's curious about the Göksungur project is that it uses two engines, instead of one as all other Western UCAV employs only one turbofan engine.

I am excited with this experimental aircraft with two engines. I applaud Turkey of daring to be "different" (although most likely because the country couldn't get a reliable turbofan engine with high max. thrust).

No information was given about the project, except for the flight time. All explanations will be given when he flew.

 

[Kamil_baku]

Thank you, but an engine core of turboshaft is not a turbojet engine. A company could theoretically utilize an engine core of other gasturbine engines to build different types of gasturbine engines, but the development still needs time, money and manpower to build one. One example would be French of trying to use the core engine of M88 to build a turboprop engine for A400M, which did not go very well for European (although it was mostly because of TP400 gearbox).

I am not sure Turkey is actually utilizing the core engine of TS1400 especially the turboshaft engine itself is still in development as it hasn't even begun a field test.

However, it is not something completely unheard of as RQ-4 Global Hawk's turbofan engine, RR AE3007 shares the same engine core with the company's turboshaft engine, RR (Alison) T406 which is an engine of V-22 Osprey.

Again, I am very much interested in the power output of this turbofan engine that would power the Turkish unmanned aerial vehicle. I would be appreciated if you could any information on that.

The problem is being 4 times stronger than Turkish TS1500 engine(6000 shp to 1500 shp), its turbo fan version engine able to produce 39kn trust, which means Turkish version will probably make 10kn thrust, the question is is that enough???

 

[SİLAHDAR]

The problem is being 4 times stronger than Turkish TS1500 engine(6000 shp to 1500 shp), its turbo fan version engine able to produce 39kn trust, which means Turkish version will probably make 10kn thrust, the question is is that enough???

İf we use him 2x of him it would be enough.

Engine of GA Avenger supplies 17.5 kn power.

 

[Kamil_baku]

İf we use him 2x of him it would be enough.

Engine of GA Avenger supplies 17.5 kn power.

you are right actually, as Avenger keep its weapons inside of it as 5th generation jets, Turkey will probably produce same Class UAV.
However, it has 740 km/h speed, which Bayraktar MIUS will have similar(even better actually with 0.8 march speed). Bayraktar will basically shorter the wings to make the aircraft more maneuverable(also more stealth) but as we all know, those wings also keep the fuel, so basically less range which Bayraktar said 5 hours.

The question is how will Goksungur get over march speed?

 

[SgtGungHo]

The problem is being 4 times stronger than Turkish TS1500 engine(6000 shp to 1500 shp), its turbo fan version engine able to produce 39kn trust, which means Turkish version will probably make 10kn thrust, the question is is that enough???

I think you mistakenly believe that all gasturbine engines are the same and the power of each gasturbine engine is always proportionate to other types of gasturbine engine based on the same core. No, that's not true and it really depends on design, settings & configurations. For instance, you would notice that even RR AE3007 has various versions with different max. thrust ranging from roughly 6500 lbf to 9500 lbf (29kn to 42kn) and its turboprop derivative, AE2100, has a lower max. power output of 4650 shp. So, it really doesn't add up to me that Turkish supersonic UCAV would have a turbofan engine developed from TS1400.

And again, it takes a lot of time, money and manpower to develop a military-grade gasturbine engine even if you recycle your existing engine core. Information about the engine such as max. thrust and all of not being available means that this supersonic UCAV doesn't have an indigenous Turbofan engine.

My money is on some Ivchenko turbofan engine. Two of their engines should be good enough for a supersonic capability and Goksungur should be faster than General Atomic Avenger.

 

[Kamil_baku]

I think you mistakenly believe that all gasturbine engines are the same and the power of each gasturbine engine is always proportionate to other types of gasturbine engine based on the same core. No, that's not true and it really depends on design, settings & configurations. For instance, you would notice that even RR AE3007 has various versions with different max. thrust ranging from roughly 6500 lbf to 9500 lbf (29kn to 42kn) and its turboprop derivative, AE2100, has a lower max. power output of 4650 shp. So, it really doesn't add up to me that Turkish supersonic UCAV would have a turbofan engine developed from TS1400.

And again, it takes a lot of time, money and manpower to develop a military-grade gasturbine engine even if you recycle your existing engine core. Information about the engine such as max. thrust and all of not being available means that this supersonic UCAV doesn't have an indigenous Turbofan engine.

My money is on some Ivchenko turbofan engine. Two of their engines should be good enough for a supersonic capability and Goksungur should be faster than General Atomic Avenger.

I took 39kn version, because that's the latest version developed in 1999, taking into consideration that Turkey has enough expertise. i believe they would get similar outcome, if not, we calculated 20kn with two engine and also confirmed that 17.5 kn would be enough with even 10 year old design. during last 10 years, battery technology has been developed further and 3d printing, basically Turkey able to make lighter design. even the worst scenario, they would get 17 kn and plane with short wing and weight, which simple only these two will add up lots of speed and opportunity... Avenger is around 8 ton but Turkey plan 5 ton plane which is thanks to short wing and also less fuel in those wings and also means more speed, maneuver and obviously less need for power...

 

[SgtGungHo]

I took 39kn version, because that's the latest version developed in 1999, taking into consideration that Turkey has enough expertise. i believe they would get similar outcome, if not, we calculated 20kn with two engine and also confirmed that 17.5 kn would be enough with even 10 year old design. during last 10 years, battery technology has been developed further and 3d printing, basically Turkey able to make lighter design. even the worst scenario, they would get 17 kn and plane with short wing and weight, which simple only these two will add up lots of speed and opportunity... Avenger is around 8 ton but Turkey plan 5 ton plane which is thanks to short wing and also less fuel in those wings and also means more speed, maneuver and obviously less need for power...

I don't want to offend you, but I have to be straight with you - it is a fact that your calcuation is based on two structually different gasturbine engines and Turkey does not have much expertise of 1990's Rolls-Royce (Alison) which had been making gasturbine engines for decades at that point (battery technology is almost nothing to do with Gasturbine engine).

And I have to point it out to you yet again that it takes a lot of time, money and manpower to develop a military-grade gasturbine engine even if you recycle your existing engine core. TS1400 itself is scheduled to take 8 years. Developing a turbofan engine even based on the same engine core would take much, if not more, resources and time (even though it won't have afterburner and other features). Given that we don't have much information about this mysterious Turbofan engine for Turkish UAV, I think it is fair to assume that this is going to be a foreign engine.

However, I am more than happy to be proved wrong by TEI.

 

[Successwill]

After Bayraktar TB2, Akıncı, Mius now TB3 is on the way.......... The tested engine in the video said to be the one of which have been developed by TEI. Either PD170 or PD220, not revealed yet.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1321843857139605504

 

[AerospaceTech]

 

[monitor]

AKSUNGUR, a high-utility load-capacity national platform, will be a fatal aircraft capable of hitting land targets precisely in all kinds of air conditions with 4 TEBER laser gut-kit bombs and 6 MAM-L ammunition to be carried simultaneously.

8:03 PM · Nov 13, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

 

[eagleeye]

look at the video this could be the new tb 2 with a foldable landing gear. Engine seems to be different too could be pg 115.

 

[Casus Belli]

look at the video this could be the new tb 2 with a foldable landing gear. Engine seems to be different too could be pg 115.

View attachment 688346

Russian Korsar UAV - not TB2/S