Air Force comparison ( Turkey - İsrael - Egypt )

[The SC]

No its actively emits in the L band it isn't a passive receiver. Anything that emits can be detected.
Russian airborne radar and avionics in general is terrible, they make decent ground / ship based systems when unrestricted by volume, power and cooling. From the same source quoted by SC the side lobe performance of the horizontal eight element layout is poor. Poor side lobe performance translates to poor resolution, peak power performance and jam resistance.

Did you know the russian mission computer on the Indian Sukhoi's were so bad that the Indians replaced it with one made in India that runs on a COTS 1990 era I486 chip?

Russians make great jets for air shows don't exaggerate Russian capabilities just because Egypt was foolish enough to purchase Russian birds.

Egypt was operating Mig-21 in the 1973 war and they performed pretty well with it against the F-4, the Sky hawk and the Mirage .. Now that was a plane 2 generations behind the SU-35 we are talking about.. this proves that the men using the machine are even more important than the machine itself..

Well.. one can consider those wing mounted L band things as just sensors..still can be useful in detection since L-band radars are able to penetrate clouds, fog, rain, storms because of their range of frequencies in the radio spectrum from 1 to 2 gigahertz ..

The article is a 2008 one.. we can assume that many upgrades were performed on the technology used in these wing mounted small AESA sensors-radars in particular..

 

[Gomig-21]

No its actively emits in the L band it isn't a passive receiver. Anything that emits can be detected.
Russian airborne radar and avionics in general is terrible, they make decent ground / ship based systems when unrestricted by volume, power and cooling. From the same source quoted by SC the side lobe performance of the horizontal eight element layout is poor. Poor side lobe performance translates to poor resolution, peak power performance and jam resistance.

Did you know the russian mission computer on the Indian Sukhoi's were so bad that the Indians replaced it with one made in India that runs on a COTS 1990 era I486 chip?

Russians make great jets for air shows don't exaggerate Russian capabilities just because Egypt was foolish enough to purchase Russian birds.

I'm not exaggerating anything whatsoever. And the reason you claim that false exaggeration is quite biased. "Foolish enough to purchase Russian birds," is ridiculous. You obviously don't understand the political aspect that is a major consideration into making these decisions for Egypt. You also forget that Egypt asked for the F-35 knowing quite well it was going to be denied and so maybe according to you, they should just settle for as many Rafales as they could get and be happy with that? Nah, you need to be a lot more pragmatic and informative of Egypt's predicament when it comes to arms purchases before making silly and ridiculous statements like that.

Those MiG-29M/35 are already an improvement to the F-16s the EAF has. So for you to say that is just incredible. I don't say things just because it's Egypt and quite the contrary. I try to be as objective as possible. What I see is the typical downgrading of anything Russian instead of giving it it's due credit, at the least.

India's mission computers were old technology when they bought them and built their own from my understanding because of all the non-Russian weapons they wanted to integrate in them. Plus they even went as far as to offer partnership in the development of the PAK-FA, now the Su-57. There's an example of not taking one element and using it as the be all and end all. Not to mention that they've come a long way since then.

You're mentioning the poor performance of the side lobe performance translates to poor resolution is not applicable in this case because it's simply frontal direction. Their function is limited, yes, but so what? lol. They can be used to their best and help in many instances. These aren't designed to perform like rotating nose-mounted radars. I also never said they were the greatest thing since sliced bread and merely mentioned that it was an additional asset to complement the aircraft's radar capabilities with the ERBIS-E and IRST. Their detection would be like trying to find FM channels on an AM frequency.

 

[dbc]

Egypt was operating Mig-21 in the 1973 war

Irrelevant since we are discussing avionics the Mig-21 avionics is terrible.

 

[dbc]

Those MiG-29M/35 are already an improvement to the F-16s the EAF has.

There were other options, upgrade your F-16's or more Rafales, the Gripen or the Chinese J10 these are all better than anything the Russians have to offer including PAK FA.

 

[The SC]

Irrelevant since we are discussing avionics the Mig-21 avionics is terrible.

It goes in line with the discussion my friend.. you said the Russian fighters were very bad in your opinion.. that is respected as it your own opinion.. so I brought up the Mig-21 use ..let alone what the Egyptian pilots can do with SU-35 and the Mig-35..

There were other options, upgrade your F-16's or more Rafales, the Gripen or the Chinese J10 these are all better than anything the Russians have to offer including PAK FA.

My friend.. The Egyptian air force command knows better what it needs..Your talk is like Pakistan should have bought more F-16s although it was denied..!!

 

[dbc]

It goes in line with the discussion my friend.. you said the Russian fighters were very bad in your opinion.. that is respected as it your own opinion.. so I brought up the Mig-21

I repeat its irrelevant since Mig-21 kills were all close combat guns or heat seeking ATOLL. Avionics wasn't a factor in the performance of the Mig 21. We are discussing radar and avionics which is much more relevant to modern air combat than it was in the 1970s.

 

[Gomig-21]

There were other options, upgrade your F-16's or more Rafales, the Gripen or the Chinese J10 these are all better than anything the Russians have to offer including PAK FA.

Now I know for sure that you are unaware of the situation and circumstances that have plagued the EAF and entire Egyptian armed forces since the peace treaty. To address your points, I have to do them one by one.

1) Upgrading the existing F-16s was denied because of Israel's fear that they would have better radars and BVR missiles (besides the AIM-7P Sparrow). That's the crux of this entire problem/process/modernization.

2) We have ordered more Rafales for an eventual total of 54 and possible an eventually 72 or more. But that will take time and in the meantime, the EAF is keen to acquire a heavy multi role air superiority as equal to the F-15 as possible which it has never had. It asked for F-15 in small amounts twice through the past 30 years and was denied both times.

3) The Swedes will never sell anything to Egypt since they don't consider us a "democracy" lol and so they're not even mentioned, looked at or considered one iotta. Besides, too much US involvement and the whole idea is to move away from US crippling deals.

4) Chinese J-10 is not considered better than the Su-35 by any means and no disrespect to any Chinese members here. China is also a recipient of the Su-35S and that puts a lot of irony in all of that.
Cheers.

 

[The SC]

Irrelevant since we are discussing avionics the Mig-21 avionics is terrible.

Concerning avionics and radar:

Why Russia’s Air Force Loves the Su-35’s Irbis-E Radar: A Detailed Look at the Sensor Suite Built to Hunt Stealth Fighters

https://militarywatchmagazine.com/a...e-sensor-suite-built-to-hunt-stealth-fighters

 

[Ceylal]

Sharon was commanding division not brigade. That shows your level of "knowledge".


Here quote of Shazly:

"25 Oct 1100 hours: A meeting of the Armed Forces Supreme Council, the first since the outbreak of war. ...The main topic was, of course, how to open the road to Third Army. But though everyone spoke with passion, nobody could come up with a realistic plan. "

You fail again.

A division than it was worse..I guess loosing 190 tanks and 700 troops was not enough, anyway by all measures his *** was handed to him by troops that he considered inferiors armed with the worse the Soviet had. That loss made Israel sit with the Egyptians and negotiate the truce..At that time there was no possibility for Israeli army to maintain her hold on the 3 rd Egyptian army…Israel was done .To say that it was on the verge of being annihilated, is too much middle eastern charabia…you started juging Israel size by looking at its shadow…Européen carved you a country in the middle east for good reason…your survival won’t be disputed or questioned among spineless states…Juste look at them now, they are tripping over each other to be buddy buddy with their bully! Brits weren’t stupid in parking you there…among them….
You quoted Shazli, Shazli was no different than Sadat..when it came to the point to separate the grain from its shell..he caved in like the army he was commanding…

 

[Malik Alashter]

Russian EW and networking always laged very seriously from Western counterparts.

Linking two different platforms is super complicated task. Totally out of Egypts capabilities.

Russian super radars totally failed in Syria. My both parents worked in Russian microelectronics it lags decades behind the US.

read about their elbrus microprocessor then talk about they been lagged behind

Indian chased the Brits just by shifting so to speak….I don’t think will resort to that with Turkey..Their tanks and their air force is a lot more modern that what Turkey had, their submarine are a lot more lethal…than what Turkey has…Your drone worked in Armenia, due to the lack of good defenses, same in Lybia.. Do not take these two countries as a proof that Turkey’s UCAV as unbeatable…You haven’t tried them against countries that can…Apparently Morocco bought some of them, let see how they fare against the Polisario air defenses..

these guys are hilarious
India really very advanced and with this modi they stand against china while these kids think turkey is sometning

A division than it was worse..I guess loosing 190 tanks and 700 troops was not enough, anyway by all measures his *** was handed to him by troops that he considered inferiors armed with the worse the Soviet had. That loss made Israel sit with the Egyptians and negotiate the truce..At that time there was no possibility for Israeli army to maintain her hold on the 3 rd Egyptian army…Israel was done .To say that it was on the verge of being annihilated, is too much middle eastern charabia…you started juging Israel size by looking at its shadow…Européen carved you a country in the middle east for good reason…your survival won’t be disputed or questioned among spineless states…Juste look at them now, they are tripping over each other to be buddy buddy with their bully! Brits weren’t stupid in parking you there…among them….
You quoted Shazli, Shazli was no different than Sadat..when it came to the point to separate the grain from its shell..he caved in like the army he was commanding…

Sadat was their Savior

Sending quadrillion people without weapons would not help at all.
Are u suggesting Saddat deliberately suffered crushing defeat in 14th offensive? Deliberately allowed crossing? Deliberately allowed surrounding of 3rtd army?

Thats obvious

 

[MMM-E]

Is Turkish Industry developing something to match or exceed the capabilities of the Meteor?

Especially considering Greece is about to receive the Rafale.

Turkey has S400 Air Defense Systems to turn Greek RAFALE Fighter Jets into crap of metal

also Turkish Industry can produce hundreds of Tactical Ballistic Missiles and land-naval-air based Cruise Missiles ( BORA , SOM , ATMACA and GEZGIN ) to hit Greek RAFALE Fighter Jets , Jet Hangars ..... and GAME OVER !


btw Turkey develops MIUS unmanned stealth Fighter Jet equipped with AESA Radar and 100+ km GOKDOGAN air to air Missiles

also TAI is working on GOKSUNGUR supersonic unmanned Fighter Jet and TEI develops TF-6000 turbofan Engine

good luck to Greeks ..... They will need it



The world will talk about Turkish unmanned Fighter Jets, not F-35s

Turkish industry and technology minister said that
When we launch our fighting UCAVs, the world will talk about the fighting UCAVs developed by Turkey, not F-35s

'The world will talk about Turkish UAVs, not F-35s'

US F-35s are very successful aircraft but Turkey is developing its own alternative, says technology minister - Anadolu Agency

www.aa.com.tr

these guys are hilarious
India really very advanced and with this modi they stand against china while these kids think turkey is sometning

what about advanced İndia ?

even only Turkish unmanned UCAVs , unmanned Fighter Jet and unmanned Vessels - Submarines will be enough to wipe out İndian Military , if India attack on Turkey

These kids think İndia is sometning

 

[dbc]

Chinese J-10 is not considered better than the Su-35 by any means and no disrespect to any Chinese members here. China is also a recipient of the Su-35S and that puts a lot of irony in all of that.

According to the Chinese, the J10's routinely defeat their Su-35's in mock combat. The Su-35's are only competitive in close within visual range combat due to thrust vector. The Chinese have long surpassed the Russians in all domains with the one exception of jet engines.

 

[FuturePAF]

Turkey has S400 Air Defense Systems to turn Greek RAFALE Fighter Jets into crap of metal

also Turkish Industry can produce hundreds of Tactical Ballistic Missiles and land-naval-air based Cruise Missiles ( BORA , SOM , ATMACA and GEZGIN ) to hit Greek RAFALE Fighter Jets , Jet Hangars ..... and GAME OVER !


btw Turkey develops MIUS unmanned stealth Fighter Jet equipped with AESA Radar and 100+ km GOKDOGAN air to air Missiles

also TAI is working on GOKSUNGUR supersonic unmanned Fighter Jet and TEI develops TF-6000 turbofan Engine

good luck to Greeks ..... They will need it



The world will talk about Turkish unmanned Fighter Jets, not F-35s

Turkish industry and technology minister said that
When we launch our fighting UCAVs, the world will talk about the fighting UCAVs developed by Turkey, not F-35s

'The world will talk about Turkish UAVs, not F-35s'

US F-35s are very successful aircraft but Turkey is developing its own alternative, says technology minister - Anadolu Agency

www.aa.com.tr

what about advanced İndia ?

even only Turkish unmanned UCAVs , unmanned Fighter Jet and unmanned Vessels - Submarines will be enough to wipe out İndian Military , if India attack on Turkey

These kids think İndia is sometning

Hope they develop a ducted ramjet follow on to the Gokdogan missile, with a range exceeding the Meteor.

 

[500]

read about their elbrus microprocessor then talk about they been lagged behind
these guys are hilarious

Which processor are u using to type this gem post?

 

[Foinikas]

Turkey has S400 Air Defense Systems to turn Greek RAFALE Fighter Jets into crap of metal

also Turkish Industry can produce hundreds of Tactical Ballistic Missiles and land-naval-air based Cruise Missiles ( BORA , SOM , ATMACA and GEZGIN ) to hit Greek RAFALE Fighter Jets , Jet Hangars ..... and GAME OVER !

Lol he had that c/ped again and again on various threads. It's all so easy imagining Turkey producing "hundreds of ballistic missiles". It's like you press the key to the printer and let it print...