Ahmadis in Pakistan

[Ahmad]

The present problems are caused because our government is confused and so our people are confused. Who are we? Are we democratic? Islamic? Are we independent or are we in the pockets of USA? What our are borders? Everything is confusion and nothing is clear.
We need clear leadership that will settle all these issues and provide direction and single identity to the people of this country.

if you think the problems today is because of the confusion/mismanagement of this or past gov, then you are utterly wrong. it was a process of long term mistakes over the years and decades which led you to this. you can say the same thing about the extremeist religioiuse groups as well, they didnt pop out like mushroom in one day.

 

[Ahmad]

God bless the internet, i love it.

 

[T-Faz]

I am amazed how people overlook the Furqan Batallion:

THE FURQAN BATTALION

The Jamaat-e-Ahmedia first sent a forty-men group under Mirza Mubarik Ahmad, which was posted at Merajkay, Sialkot; two of them were killed. Later, in June 1948, they sent a battalion, named "Furqan Battalion" which received its training at village Sohan near Sara-i-Alamgir. It was led first by Col. Muhammad Hayat Kaisrani and then by Col. Mubarik Ahmad. It was posted to Baghsar, Bhimber, on 10th July 1948 to see active duty. Five of its men were killed in action. It was disbanded on 15th June, 1950. A special function was held at Sara-i-Alamgir on 17h June, 1950, to mark its disbandment.

The Commander-in-Chief of the Pakistan army, General Sir Dougles Gracey sent a message, read by Brig. M. K. Sheikh, in which he said:

"In Kashmir, you were allotted an importantsector and very soon you justified the reliance placed on you and you nobly acquitted yourself in battle against heavy enemy ground and air attacks, without losing a single inch of ground. Your conduct, both individual and collective, and your discipline have been of a very high order."

Fouq Library

http://www.kashmiri.info/index2.php?option=com_content&do_pdf=1&id=1332

Then the Ahmadi brothers who saved Pakistan in 1965, first one was about to bring victory to Pakistan but was replaced with Yahya who made the wrong move. What about Iftikhar Januja who was film like character and highest serving official to die in the battle field.

Iftikhar Janjua - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Akhtar Hussain Malik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Abdul Ali Malik - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pakistan had victory in hand when General Malik was about to capture Akhnoor and Maj Gen Januja was leading the commandos. Malik was leading his men in a helicopter and in a disgusting incident, was replaced by Musa with Yahya.

Operation Grand Slam -DAWN Magazine; November 27, 2005

His brother went on to save Pakistan with the biggest tank battle since WW2 saving Pakistan from a great loss at the hands of Indians.

To this day they are dying for this country, while the extremists and terrorists are killing our own or initiating propaganda.

An Ahmadi Major lays down his life for Pakistan Pak Tea House

 

[tnt123]

Why do you think the parents can't teach religion to their children any more? Teaching and enforcing are two different things.

The right of the parent's, of religious indoctrination of the child is not in question here. It is the enforced declaration about who is a Muslim or not - which Pakistan does - lawfully - and it's wrong.

So are you okay to live in Pakistan/Islamic world where parents teach their children all sort of Haraam and Shirk in the name of Islam? Does the state have no moral responsibility to provide the right guidance and the right path to future generations?

I don't understand how you can justify this.

 

[T-Faz]

 

[khuramonline]

Prophet Muhammad (SAW) has been sent as Rahmat-ulel alemen !

I agree with that - and i do agree that everyone has the right to understand and follow their own path to islam.

Now - what i can't agree with is that someone brings another prophet of their own - another book of their own instead of the holy Quran - brings another City of their own instead of Makkah and Madina - Brings their book of Hadith of their own instead of sahee hadith.

Declares other Muslims as Kafir - claims to be an Imam - jesus at the same time while not meeting a single requirement of being one as described in Quran.

How the hell one can believe in the Lastness of the Prophet Muhammad SAW in one moment and believe in Mirza the second moment??

There are Many paths to Allah SWT but there is only one Path which is Right The Sirat e Mustaqeem or seedha rasta which is Islam only and not Ahmadiyaa

When Allah SWT describes it in Sorah Fateha as Sirat e Mustaqeem or Straight path it means that there other Paths too which are wrong and have got a dead end !

Rehmat-al-lil-Alamin is unconditional. Please do not impose your self made conditions.

Similarly First Kalima is also unconditional. "La-illaha illallaho, Muhammadur RasoolAllah". It's meaning is "There is no worthy of worship except Allah, Muhhammad is messanger of Allah."

So also please NOT include any condition in first kalima. Do Not read it's meaning as "Muhammad is HIS Last Prophet."

Word "Last" is NOT the part of First Kalima. And the only condition to be a Muslim is First Kalima.

A worst Kafir who just recites first Kalima, becomes a Muslim whose responsility is then taken up by Allah and Messanger of Allah. Who are you to impose any condition...???

If word Last is the part of first kalima then kalma should be written in Arabic as "La-illaha illallaho, Muhammadur Aakhirul RasoolAllah"

WHICH IS NOT THE CASE.

So Ahmedies have not invented any new thing. It is you proud Muslims who have invented a new word in even first kalima...!!!

 

[Comet]

^ Hi,
so you believe that the concept of last prophet is self made and has nothing to do with Islam?

 

[khuramonline]

I dont believe in that - Quran is one book with one meaning - one message-whoever will interpret it to fit their stupid agenda will be kicked out.

A

They need to get a brain in my opinion- i have answered it already.


And you are telling the divine truth ???



Post it , i dont have access to this material.



Are you preaching Qadiyanism here ?

I maintain - Mirza claiming all of that crap is no more than a joke.
He does not meet a single requirement for an Imam described in Quran and sahih Hadith.

You can post a 1000 comments - but what you cant do is to justify your claims by proofs.

You have got nothing to put up.

I am sorry about CSS syllabus. I just confused "Deen Vs. Mazhab" with "Nabi Vs. Rasool". Deen Vs. Mazhab is part of CSS syllabus. And that syllabus is WRONG. Sura Kaferoon clearly states: "Lakum Deenokum Walyadeen".

Means, tumhare liye (kafiron k liye) tumhara deen aur mere liye mera deen.

So word "Deen" can denote any religion other than Islam as well.

Secondly, you are also wrong. Ahmedies do not differentiate between Nabi and Rasool. They only differentiate between "Shariat wala Nabi" aur "Ghair Tashriyi" Nabi. You also believe the same. So there is no difference between you and Ahmedies.

I maintain - Mirza claiming all of that crap is no more than a joke.
He does not meet a single requirement for an Imam described in Quran and sahih Hadith.

Similar are the reasons due to which Jews still deny prophethood of Hazrat Isa (AS) and even Prophet Muhammad (PBUH).

Regards!

 

[khuramonline]

^ Hi,
so you believe that the concept of last prophet is self made and has nothing to do with Islam?

Arabic word for "Last" is "Akhir" and NOT "Khatam".

According to Quran, Prophet of Islam (PBUH) is "Khatam-an-Nabiyeen" and NOT "Akhir-ul-Nabiyeen"

I explain it with a simple example also. Take a sentence: "Bahadur Shah Zafar is the LAST of Mughal Emperors".

Now take this sentence and go to any Arabic expert. Believe me,,, NO Arabic expert shall translate it with word "Khatam"....!!!

On the other hand, there are so many examples where word "Khatam" has been applied to mean something different and other than "Last".

For example "khatam-al-Auliyah" ... this word has been used for Hazrat Ali (RA),,,, But no one takes its meaning as "Last of Auliyah"

Hope this is sufficient to explain.

 

[apophenia]

For Muslims, Prophet of Islam (PBUH) is no more "Rehmat-al-Lil-Alamin". For them, Prophet of Islam (PBUH) is only "Rehmat-al-lil-Muslameen".

If a kafir feels pride in thinking himself Muslim,,, then so what...??? He is just receiving his part of Rehmet. Which is not specific to only Muslims....!!!

Stop trying to score brownie points.

They only differentiate between "Shariat wala Nabi" aur "Ghair Tashriyi" Nabi. You also believe the same. So there is no difference between you and Ahmedies.

NEWFLASH...there is no such thing as a Ghair Tashriyi Nabi (non-law bearing prophet)! Check the Quran!

 

[khuramonline]

Stop trying to score brownie points.




NEWFLASH...there is no such thing as a Ghair Tashriyi Nabi (non-law bearing prophet)! Check the Quran!

Yes there is no express differentiation. But there are only few Prophets who have bring their Shariah. Others have NOT.

No one has said more than this...!!!

 

[Silver-Scorpion]

I don't think we should fight over whether they are Muslims or not instead we should focus on getting rid of the internal problems and hatred that is the result of the actions of extremists. The point is that Islam doesn't tell us to go out and persecute the non-Muslims. When Prophet Muhammad(PBUH) was injured by Syrians, he decided to forgive them and said that if not them their descendants might convert to Islam. We should learn from this example and from other teachings of Islam, which only teach equality and peace.

 

[Sinnerman108]

Again, It is amusing

It is too long to quote every one of you one by one, any way here goes:

T-FAZ:
I suggested that Qadyani people be dealt with stick as in use of force,
I am absolutely free to feel so.
You on the other hand called me an idiot, compared me with a scum bag etc.
That amounts to personal abuse / attack.
are you willing to accept blame ?

keep in mind, I still don't know if you are a qadyani or not.

I would suggest that if a moderator has to engage in debate, and then get all worked up, there should be some clear rules governing that.



My argument is as follows:

In your previous highlight of great Qadyani history you quoted two self negating stories.

1. Qadyani contributed with a battalion of force and were principally responsible for Kashmir's freedom.
2. you also claimed that Qadyani are peace loving and very sophisticated people.

my argument is how can they raise an actual battalion that early in their history when the subcontinent it self was in turmoil ?

If in case they did raise an actual battalion that early in their history, then that means they are not peaceful, rather they were planning action since their inception.

*******************************************************

Dr Abdus Salam shared the noble prize for physics with 2 other scientists.
It would have been nice if you had stated the fact like so, and not discredited the other two scientists.

Dr Abdus Salam's research was in basic forces, and Electro weak force.
It is a part of a larger TOE.

THIS has nothing to do nuclear fission !

A perfectly fine nuclear weapon can be made with out this knowledge.
remember, you are talking about in70's and nukes have been around since 1940s.

My problem is you are trying to mislead the facts and paint a picture which is not true.

This practice portraying history has been perfected by Jews before Qadyani.

EMOGIRL:

Every thing is the name.
The whole main root cause of Qadyani is that they start of as Muslims 1500 years go.
200 years ago, they invent some thing else.
then they try to tell the rest of Muslims that they are kafir if they do not accept Mirza.

Qadyani method of preaching is to first appear as a muslim, then confuse the issues and once there is ample confusion then present their views.

This is an exact definition of FITNA.

If Qadyani call them selves any thing else, and preach their religion as a separate entity.
I will have NO problem with that.
but if they try to preach and brand their religion as Islam, I will retaliate.


now before any one quotes the example of Christ's rejection by jews, and Prophet Mohammad pbuh's rejection by Jews and christians.
Please consider that Torah and Bible were lost in original form.
Quran is present in original form and is the final and only word of Allah.
Thus when Allah's word is with us, there is no room for any prophet / nabi what ever.

 

[T-Faz]

T-FAZ:
I suggested that Qadyani people be dealt with stick as in use of force,
I am absolutely free to feel so.
You on the other hand called me an idiot, compared me with a scum bag etc.
That amounts to personal abuse / attack.
are you willing to accept blame ?

You advocate violence against a community based on religious differences, this is what the terrorist do and I have no respect for people who advocate the use of violence based on such. You threaten me by saying that people like me should be dealt with stick ie force. What have I done that is so harming or insulting to you that you want to use violence against me.

This is the kind of mentality the the terrorist have and they are killing innocents mercilessly. What the hell kind of thinking is this, I am baffled when you suggest that force should be used.

To me Sir, you are nothing but the same as the terrorist scum and I will stand by what I said.

I would suggest that if a moderator has to engage in debate, and then get all worked up, there should be some clear rules governing that.

You threaten me with suggesting that 'force' should be used against me for writing a few merits of this particular jamaat and you expect me to stay calm. What would you achieve by using force and that too by suggesting so on the internet.

My argument is as follows:

In your previous highlight of great Qadyani history you quoted two self negating stories.

1. Qadyani contributed with a battalion of force and were principally responsible for Kashmir's freedom.
2. you also claimed that Qadyani are peace loving and very sophisticated people.

Are you reading the references I have provided you with. The Ahmadis clearly created 'Furqan Force' in a war where conditions allow fighting. If they fought in a war does not mean that in a country they are not peace loving and very sophisticated. Ahmadis never attacked or created terrorist groups like other sects, the only fighting that Ahmadis have actually done is against India. What is wrong in fighting with the enemy of your own nation and how by doing so you become not peace loving.

Read the second paragraph were it details how fighting is permitted in a defensive war and that is what the 'Furqan Force' did.

Islam and the Ahmadiyya Jama'at ... - Google Books

my argument is how can they raise an actual battalion that early in their history when the subcontinent it self was in turmoil ?

If in case they did raise an actual battalion that early in their history, then that means they are not peaceful, rather they were planning action since their inception.

The Furqan Force was made up of British Indian Army soldiers, if you are aware of history, you would know that many in the Indian Army belonged to this sect and it was easy for them as a group to create a battalion so quickly for deployment. The references are clear and so is the proof, the batallion was led by serving soldiers who fought off the Indians.

Furqan Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I know you cannot fathom the role Ahmadi's have played in the creation and subsequent development of Pakistan, shamefully Zia destroyed all that there was in a matter of a decade.

Dr Abdus Salam shared the noble prize for physics with 2 other scientists.
It would have been nice if you had stated the fact like so, and not discredited the other two scientists.

Dr Abdus Salam's research was in basic forces, and Electro weak force.
It is a part of a larger TOE.

THIS has nothing to do nuclear fission !

A perfectly fine nuclear weapon can be made with out this knowledge.
remember, you are talking about in70's and nukes have been around since 1940s.

My problem is you are trying to mislead the facts and paint a picture which is not true.

This practice portraying history has been perfected by Jews before Qadyani.

I never stated that him winning a Nobel Prize was linked to nuclear program, he did so on his own merit and also played an important role in other scientific institutions of Pakistan

Dr Abdus Salam had a very important role in the development if Pakistan's Nuclear Program, I know that this omitted in the JI curriculum but you are spewing the exact sentiment that has been inbuilt into certain people that are just out to harm Pakistan and any other sect.

Abdus Salam knew the importance of nuclear technology in Pakistan. Salam was a central figure in Pakistan's nuclear program. Abdus Salam was responsible for establishing the nuclear research institutes in Pakistan. In 1972, Government of Pakistan learned about the India's nuclear weapon program. The then Prime Minister of Pakistan, Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, formed a group of nuclear scientists and engineers, initially headed by Salam. He closely collaborated with his noted colleague and long-associated friend, Mr. Munir Ahmad Khan, in the field of nuclear technology in Pakistan.

In December 1972, two theoretical physicists working at the ICTP were asked by Salam to report to noted Pakistani nuclear scientist, Munir Ahmad Khan (late), then-PAEC chairman[14]. This marked the beginning of the “Theoretical Physics Group" or TPG. The TPG, in PAEC, was assigned to develop the theoretical designs Pakistan's nuclear weapon devices. The TPG team under the leadership of Riazuddin, who is also Salam's distinguished student, completed the work on the theoretical design of the Nuclear weapon device by 1977[14].

I am painting a true picture through references and clear proof that all which I stated occurred. But misleading and changing the facts is something that the extremist Islamic parties have done for some time to create an altered version of history. Your last statement about the Jews and Qadiani's tells me all there is to know about your mindset and how you have been inbuilt with this rabid hate and penchant for 'force'.

 

[kugga]

Arabic word for "Last" is "Akhir" and NOT "Khatam".

According to Quran, Prophet of Islam (PBUH) is "Khatam-an-Nabiyeen" and NOT "Akhir-ul-Nabiyeen"

I explain it with a simple example also. Take a sentence: "Bahadur Shah Zafar is the LAST of Mughal Emperors".

Now take this sentence and go to any Arabic expert. Believe me,,, NO Arabic expert shall translate it with word "Khatam"....!!!

On the other hand, there are so many examples where word "Khatam" has been applied to mean something different and other than "Last".

For example "khatam-al-Auliyah" ... this word has been used for Hazrat Ali (RA),,,, But no one takes its meaning as "Last of Auliyah"

Hope this is sufficient to explain.

what about when Quran says about Kafirs "Khatma Allah u fee quloobihim"??