Ahmadis in Pakistan

[Comet]

Muslims are the most sensitive intolerant people on the face of planet when it comes to their religion any one else? Ohh well he's advocate of Devil & Lucifier

i stand by my words, Ordinance XX, MY FOOT

apparently the are. Learn to live with them.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

When a particular religion tend to show a distorted form of your own religion then care must be taken.

going by your logic, people from different sect must think that other sect is giving a distorted religion & just simply go for the kill, no?


for the God(in which you believe) sake in which you believe try to develop a thick skin regarding religious views

apparently the are. Learn to live with them.

I know Muslims are hypocrites

 

[Comet]

going by your logic, people from different sect must think that other sect is giving a distorted religion & just simply go for the kill, no?


for the God(in which you believe) sake in which you believe try to develop a thick skin regarding religious views

First of all Ahmadis is not a sect.

And I never said any thing about killing. neigther for sect nor for minorities.

 

[DaRk WaVe]

And I never said any thing about killing. neigther for sect nor for minorities.

but you think punishing them for the reasons mentioned in Ordinance XX, is right?

Simply say Yes or No

 

[Comet]

I know Muslims are hypocrites

These days most of them But not all.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

No I do not.

But the issue is here "equality and freedom of religion"

When a particular religion tend to show a distorted form of your own religion then care must be taken.

That 'care' does not mean we start committing immoral acts such as 'discrimination by the State', as we are doing with the laws against Ahmadis. Two wrongs (if you believe Ahmadis are committing a wrong) do not make a right. Your crime is not justified by the crime of another.

In order to counter Ahmadi teachings, mainstream Muslim sects can continue to proselytize their own teachings. After all the Ahmadis are a very small minority in Pakistan, and there should be no reason why mainstream Muslim sects cannot compete with Ahmadis in spreading their viewpoint - is the faith of mainstream Muslims, in Islam, so weak that they have to resort to immoral and discriminatory laws against a minority community?

Also, I am against all the laws that were made during Dictatorial Regimes. With the passage of dictators rule, the laws they made with sheer force, should also have been abolished. Unfortunately, this didn't happen.

I agree on that point, since those laws did not reflect the will of the people. But these particular laws against Ahmadis should be opposed both on that basis and a moral basis.

 

[Comet]

but you think punishing them for the reasons mentioned in Ordinance XX, is right?

Simply say Yes or No

For me NO.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

The parliament makes the law, the courts implement the law. The change has to come from the Parliament.

The constitution of Pakistan decrees that 'no laws contrary to Islam' - the laws against Ahmadis are quite obviously 'contrary to Islam' (for reasons mentioned in my past posts). I would argue the SC does have grounds for overturning these laws, as well as the laws prohibiting non-Muslims from holding certain offices, but as in the US (laws in favor of slavery and segregation) it will take time for society to change its bigoted mindset. I am not convinced we have a judiciary currently that will take head on such an issue, though I could be wrong.

Having parliament do it with be preferred, since it would reflect a maturing and civilized electorate and polity, but that will take time.
But discourse such as the one we are having is key to changing hearts and minds one step at a time - as I pointed out before - this issue is now being debated on mainstream media in editorials, op-eds, columns, blogs, fora, facebook, twitter etc.

 

[Comet]

That 'care' does not mean we start committing immoral acts such as 'discrimination by the State', as we are doing with the laws against Ahmadis. Two wrongs (if you believe Ahmadis are committing a wrong) do not make a right. Your crime is not justified by the crime of another.

In order to counter Ahmadi teachings, mainstream Muslim sects can continue to proselytize their own teachings. After all the Ahmadis are a very small minority in Pakistan, and there should be no reason why mainstream Muslim sects cannot compete with Ahmadis in spreading their viewpoint - is the faith of mainstream Muslims, in Islam, so weak that they have to resort to immoral and discriminatory laws against a minority community?

I agree on that point, since those laws did not reflect the will of the people. But these particular laws against Ahmadis should be opposed both on that basis and a moral basis.

Thanks on the underlined part.



for the bold part:
This is a whole new debate whether state should have right to decide about religion or not.
Moreover, if it is a law then you should not be calling it crime.

 

[Xeric]

The parliament makes the law, the courts implement the law. The change has to come from the Parliament.

Courts interpret the law. The executive branch implements them.

 

[nightcrawler]

for the God(in which you believe) sake in which you believe try to develop a thick skin regarding religious views

simply wrong you are!!
from your posts in this sect I came to know that what nominal knowledge you hold in religious affairs & using your bean size mind you take care of the lavishly written arguments.
Now coming to the answer the degree of distortion must be kept in mind when you treat with your opponent.
you steal something or you kill some one both are crimes but the degree of punisment vary!!
Similary Qadiani degree of distortion distorts the very fabric of Islam; thats why you can't treat them as a Muslim or a nonMuslim but a defaulter like I already have written!!
But again you can't just kill them I a suicide bomb but an open dialogue must be held & the viewers are to decide!!
If they fail they either accept Islam in its pure sense or leave Pakistan for mind you that our legislations treats a NonMuslim & defaulter separately

 

[Xeric]

Here's the broad breakdown:

Executive branch - Enforces Laws
President
Prime Minister

Legislative Branch - Makes and Impliment Laws
Senate
National Assembly

Judicial branch - Ensures Laws are Constitutional
Supreme Court
Provincial & High Courts
Ombudsman/Mohtasib

The Court's role ended when they made this law 'legal'. They cant do anything, no suo motu nothing because it's part of the constitution now. The Legislative Branch had to move their bums if something has to change. People ofcourse can do alot, provided they are willing to, but it aint happening.

 

[Comet]

Here's the broad breakdown:

Executive branch - Enforces Laws
President
Prime Minister

Legislative Branch - Makes and Impliment Laws
Senate
National Assembly

Judicial branch - Ensures Laws are Constitutional
Supreme Court
Provincial & High Courts
Ombudsman/Mohtasib

The Court's role ended when they made this law 'legal'. They cant do anything, no suo motu nothing because it's part of the constitution now. The Legislative Branch had to move their bums if something has to change. People ofcourse can do alot, provided they are willing to, but it aint happening.

Yup, it ain't happening for a long time.

 

[khuramonline]

Well whether it is a sect or religion, true or even false religion ... fact is that it is a successful community ... which has grown to the number of crors within first hundred years of its birth.

On the whole, this successfully growing community consists of peaceful, well educated and reasonable people. They don't abuse others even if others abuse them. And on the whole, they are wise and competent people.

 

[khuramonline]

Another issue also coming here. There are many poor ahmedies too ... who are living in places like kachi aabadies.