Ahmadis in Pakistan

[Awesome]

Theoretically correct but practically there are problem. The paths are not separate and they often overlap which creates confusion.

I know, thats a big problem and banning it only makes the problem go more covert. Challenges are there, highlight the issue on your own. You can call them liars (or preferably be less rude and call them "wrong") but you have the total right to profess and preach your religion, Islam. The spread of Islam is fundamental to our deen and that can only happen if your deen's followers don't look like people riding the anti-freedom wave.

So there's a double benefit to supporting freedom of speech!

 

[Comet]

who has placed the tag " bh!ndi"? what does that mean?

 

[Awesome]

Who is stopping them from believing what they want to believe ??


We are just presenting our belief according to which anyone who claims prophethood after the Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), then that person is a liar and kazzab simple as that.

The only thing is Islam is clearly defined anything which is against Islam can be called any religion but not Islam.



How can you call something as Islam which was evolved just one century ago ???????

Thats what I'm saying you are preventing them to believe in what they want to believe. If they believed Mickey Mouse is their Prophet of Islam, then that is their right to believe.

You can call them dumb, you can call them liars, you can call them wrong. But you can't say, don't say you're following Islam. Islam is a religion that works on BELIEF. If you can believe in Allah, and you can believe in Prophet Muhammad (SAW) then they can believe in Mickey Mouse as well.

One will be correct and one will be wrong in their belief and that they will find out in the afterlife.

 

[Spring Onion]

I know, thats a big problem and banning it only makes the problem go more covert. Challenges are there, highlight the issue on your own. You can call them liars (or preferably be less rude and call them "wrong") but you have the total right to profess and preach your religion, Islam. The spread of Islam is fundamental to our deen and that can only happen if your deen's followers don't look like people riding the anti-freedom wave.

So there's a double benefit to supporting freedom of speech!

Asim agree with it but then you should remove all intolerant words used against religious figures on this forum.


Why mods and admins can give a fatwa of Taliban supporters for members who do not agree with PoV of liberals ???

Freedom of speech is a two way traffic. If an Islamic scholar talk about Jehad its called hate speech if Non-Muslims spread blasphemous content that draws violence and killings, its call freedom of speech

 

[Awesome]

This is what Jinnah said and theoretically you guys are all against Jinnah by supporting this theocratic law:

You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place or worship in this State of Pakistan. You may belong to any religion or caste or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State.

NOTHING. Zilch. Nada. Babaye Qaum ne farma dia.

 

[Spring Onion]

Thats what I'm saying you are preventing them to believe in what they want to believe. If they believed Mickey Mouse is their Prophet of Islam, then that is their right to believe.

You can call them dumb, you can call them liars, you can call them wrong. But you can't say, don't say you're following Islam. Islam is a religion that works on BELIEF. If you can believe in Allah, and you can believe in Prophet Muhammad (SAW) then they can believe in Mickey Mouse as well.

One will be correct and one will be wrong in their belief and that they will find out in the afterlife.

my objection is to their mocking my religion.


There is no argument that qadianis are non-Muslims and hence being minority they should be given protection against extremist Muslim organisations.

Thats it.

 

[Awesome]

Asim agree with it but then you should remove all intolerant words used against religious figures on this forum.

Why mods and admins can give a fatwa of Taliban supporters for members who do not agree with PoV of liberals ???

Freedom of speech is a two way traffic. If an Islamic scholar talk about Jehad its called hate speech if Non-Muslims spread blasphemous content that draws violence and killings, its call freedom of speech

This is quite straight forward. One calls for MURDER of humanity. The other calls for expressing a personal view.

Murder = physical harm
Insult = verbal mean words.

You can insult any religion too, only thing is we don't discuss religion over here in that way. Over here we have been very consistent in pointing out that religious discussion should be limited to the freedoms of Pakistanis or the lack of them.

 

[Comet]

I know, thats a big problem and banning it only makes the problem go more covert. Challenges are there, highlight the issue on your own. You can call them liars (or preferably be less rude and call them "wrong") but you have the total right to profess and preach your religion, Islam. The spread of Islam is fundamental to our deen and that can only happen if your deen's followers don't look like people riding the anti-freedom wave.

So there's a double benefit to supporting freedom of speech!

Agreed, by far.

Now, the real issue please.

What are the discriminations?

1) They are not allowed to call themselves Muslims.
again. Path crossed. Who is Muslim? what to do? Muslims are Muslims from 1400+ years with same set of beliefs specifically The Prophet(S.A.W).

2) They cannot call there worship places Mosques
again. Path crossed. What is the definition of Masjid?

3) Terrorists specifically attack Ahmadis.
BS. they attack every one. Only one difference, no one cash the death of non-Ahmadis

 

[Awesome]

my objection is to their mocking my religion.


There is no argument that qadianis are non-Muslims and hence being minority they should be given protection against extremist Muslim organisations.

Thats it.

Who will protect them from the state when they still say that they are Muslims despite for you being no argument on that matter.

 

[Xeeshan]

so uptill now this thread is defaming Islam, ohh the already defamed system don't needs to be defamed

EMO DOESN'T BASH ISLAM.

Anyone who says he/she is one.

Not in this case. Muslims believed well established beliefs, anyone who denies them has to(?) prove himself a true muslim. Qadyanis have always been unable to prove that and still ask to be called Muslims, no way.

 

[Spring Onion]

Actually I've encouraged people to call them liars as much as they want to (within context). It's verbal and does not harm anyone. Jailing them, thats what I'm against.

There is no law in Quran which calls for jailing or killing those who are murdits even.

And this word in itself defines that anyone who leaves Islam is murtid and not a Muslim anymore.

Protection of minorities sounds again theocratic. It sounds like some ghunda taking hafta tax.

There should be equality and for the purposes of law and order, your religion should not matter.

Quran clearly says "You are on to your deen and we are on to our deen".

By protection Islam means they are free to practice their religion.

 

[Awesome]

Agreed, by far.

Now, the real issue please.

What are the discriminations?

1) They are not allowed to call themselves Muslims.
again. Path crossed. Who is Muslim? what to do? Muslims are Muslims from 1400+ years with same set of beliefs specifically The Prophet(S.A.W).

Let the Muslims who were Muslims 1400 years ago call them non-Muslims and the new guys on the block, let them call themselves Muslims and be happy in their world. Let the paths clash, if they are being stupid, call them stupid, point out to them all the flaws in their beliefs.

2) They cannot call there worship places Mosques
again. Path crossed. What is the definition of Masjid?

This one is even more simple. Masjid literally means a place where people do the Sajda. It's derived from the word Sajda.

It makes no logical sense to deny this right to the Ahmedis whatever their beliefs may be. You may ask them to write "Ahmediyya Masjid" but you can't force that upon them. I think most of them out of Pakistan DO make that distinction.

3) Terrorists specifically attack Ahmadis.
BS. they attack every one. Only one difference, no one cash the death of non-Ahmadis

No argument here, they kill everyone and my efforts are not to improve the terrorists. My efforts are to bring forth a better law n order system in Pakistan through a parliamentary resolution.

 

[Xeeshan]

How can you call something as Islam which was evolved just one century ago ???????

Where are you Emo, Agnostic, ghutto, Asim? please enlighten us all on this very fact.

 

[Hyde]

i am sure when Agnostic Muslim come - he is gonnai do this

everyday he deletes 15-20 posts off-topic and we start again n again

 

[Spring Onion]

This is quite straight forward. One calls for MURDER of humanity. The other calls for expressing a personal view.

Murder = physical harm
Insult = verbal mean words.

NO ONE supports the call for murder here so where is the onus on us Muslims here ??


The problem is that this threat has not been properly presented.


Why dont you change it to a title "Should we condemn the killing of qadianis by extremists or not"


Then see NO Muslim member in his sane mind will support the violence ever

You can insult any religion too, only thing is we don't discuss religion over here in that way. Over here we have been very consistent in pointing out that religious discussion should be limited to the freedoms of Pakistanis or the lack of them.

NO you can not insult any religion. No one supports that. And if you have been following than many Pakistanis and Indians both have been banned for insulting religion and we agree with it.