Ahmadis in Pakistan

[Spring Onion]

I know i am going to hurt some & if this question cant be asked Mods may delte it.....

whats the proof that every prophet of the history was a great truth teller with super natural claims, don't get offended just a question, just as you question them they can question you & things goes on n on

PS: It ain't Anti Islamic :

Do you believe in the word of Quran if yes then you will find the answer to your question. For us Muslims Quran is the proof if you do not believe in Quran then its your problem.


They can question us and we have the answer as per order of Quran and not made up like them.


Just go and check the history of Islam and history of qadianiat.

Compare the dates and era. How many of you here on the forum even know how qadianiat started ???????????

 

[DaRk WaVe]

Well that the base case (as I call it) Every thing starts from this base case. If one does not believe in Prophet being truth teller then he won't have iman on him.

exactly so why do you want to challenge their base

leave 'em alone & let them pray the way they want to pray & remove the discriminatory laws

 

[Awesome]

@Asim:
If tolerance means let go of one's religion and belief and principles then you'd find only intolerant people.

Who said you have to let go of your beliefs? You don't have to agree what the Ahmedis are saying is the truth. You can keep on shouting the mantra like Jana does "they are liars" over and over. That is YOUR freedom.

Muslims have been like this for past 1400 years. They believe in Last Prophet. A small group comes up with bright idea of having new prophet. You want a huge population to change / amend their religion but you wont point finger on the one who started it?

Who said we want to change the issue of the finality of the Prophet. My religion says Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the last prophet, case closed for me. Someone else's says there are 10 more prophets after that, let them believe. Where have I said I should change my beliefs?

 

[DaRk WaVe]

the point is that if people will keep challenging each others faith & keep declaring their faith as the savior of humanity & peace, then there's going to be a mess because fanatics exist in every religion & they won't hesitate to declare this world a 'Dar-ul-Harb'

plus State is no one to declare anyone Muslim or non Muslim, were people before 1973 all Kafirs?

 

[Awesome]

Do you believe in the word of Quran if yes then you will find the answer to your question. For us Muslims Quran is the proof if you do not believe in Quran then its your problem.

No but her question was, what is your PROOF that the Quran is the word of Allah? Have you ever interviewed Allah? Got an official confirmation on video tape?

Probably not, but you believe in what the Prophet Muhammad told you and you believe that the words of the Quran are the divine words of Allah. If you can believe in that, why can't they believe in GAM and whatever story he told them.

 

[Comet]

exactly so why do you want to challenge their base

leave 'em alone & let them pray the way they want to pray & remove the discriminatory laws

I have no issue with their paying and all. I am concerned and curios about the all "discriminatory laws."

 

[Spring Onion]

How can there be a limit to freedom? The only limit to freedom as is generally accepted by the world, is that your freedom ends where it stops someone else's freedom.

And arent you practicing the same here when anyone differ or call qadianis as liars you are coming up with ban threats??????

The thing is "Kill the non-believers wherever you find them" type of quotes are repeated by only two types of people. The Islamophobes and the Islamists. These two type of people are in full agreement with each other in at least that Islam is violent.

Both are munafiqs because they are quoting the half verse where as the complete one says "Slay, kill the non-believers wherever you find them in the Battle filed"


Now tell me what we do in the battle ??? Dont we kill our opponent armymen or present them with flowers ??

Again there are two types of people and they both use these quotes and hence ridiculousness of it all should be pointed out that there is always a before and after part of these statements that is often ignored by both sides - which is always do it in self-defence.

Agreed.

The solution is there. Pakistan MUST be a secular country and these laws should be removed through a parliamentary resolution.

Now this is a point where we can have some agreement. See your current constitution is mixure of some Islamic rules and some secular ones. Which is unfortunate.

Either you should totally go for secular one or pure Islamic one.

In both minorities are protected. Simple as that

 

[Hyde]

How can there be a limit to freedom? The only limit to freedom as is generally accepted by the world, is that your freedom ends where it stops someone else's freedom.

There is unfortunately a limit to freedom and we are helpless in this regard. We are trapped in this universe and despite inventing the Latest rockets we cannot go beyound this universe. So this our limit. When we go beyound this universe we will discuss that we have no limit

For me the definition of freedom is as long as it is not offending anybody else - Where an offence is started - my freedom ends

The thing is "Kill the non-believers wherever you find them" type of quotes are repeated by only two types of people. The Islamophobes and the Islamists. These two type of people are in full agreement with each other in at least that Islam is violent.

And what should i call to EmO then? in which category she falls when she is sharing half verse of the holy quran without context? Ok let me speak it logically

When i was child i was taught that 2+2= 4 *3 = 12
When i grew up i was told that 2+2*3 = is not 12 but its 8 (algebra)

Those who does not know aljebra still answers 2+2*3 = 12

Now when she is bringing one verse of the Qur'an neglecting the whole chapter which is its definition she is doing nothing but confusing others who does not know anything about Islam. It is possible that the verse she mentions does not mean literally what its written in a verse. You have to read the whole chapter to understand what its talking about. So all i am saying is when she is sharing Anti-Islamic kind of material (as she always does) do it in a way so that everybody gains knowledge from it rather than ranting or sacractially speaking

Again there are two types of people and they both use these quotes and hence ridiculousness of it all should be pointed out that there is always a before and after part of these statements that is often ignored by both sides - which is always do it in self-defence.

Unfortuantely yes

The solution is there. Pakistan MUST be a secular country and these laws should be removed through a parliamentary resolution.

Very true - but as a Pakistani is our responsbility to just bash the government or criticizing the whole system? It is said "Clean your own house - the whole country will be cleaned".

 

[Comet]

the point is that if people will keep challenging each others faith & keep declaring their faith as the savior of humanity & peace, then there's going to be a mess because fanatics exist in every religion & they won't hesitate to declare this world a 'Dar-ul-Harb'

plus State is no one to declare anyone Muslim or non Muslim, were people before 1973 all Kafirs?

This is the core issue. This is what we should be discussing.

Already, I think, every one agrees that Ahmadi is not a sect of Islam but a totally different religion that has taken bits and pieces from Islam.

 

[Hyde]

Yes i am fed up of this system but i am certainly living in this country

you people accuse me of posting negative only, but why don't you people post the positive, why single me out & attack me, the solution to our problems is to accept the existence of problems,end to hypocrisy & elimination of concept seeing everything from a religious angle

You see i loved this post

Last good thread i can remember from you is "Freethinking". I would encourage you to open such threads that will help the society or at least some pakistani peoples to think broadly. But unfortunately you make such posts very rare

 

[Spring Onion]

No but her question was, what is your PROOF that the Quran is the word of Allah? Have you ever interviewed Allah? Got an official confirmation on video tape?

Probably not, but you believe in what the Prophet Muhammad told you and you believe that the words of the Quran are the divine words of Allah. If you can believe in that, why can't they believe in GAM and whatever story he told them.

Who is stopping them from believing what they want to believe ??


We are just presenting our belief according to which anyone who claims prophethood after the Last Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), then that person is a liar and kazzab simple as that.

The only thing is Islam is clearly defined anything which is against Islam can be called any religion but not Islam.



How can you call something as Islam which was evolved just one century ago ???????

 

[Comet]

Who said you have to let go of your beliefs? You don't have to agree what the Ahmedis are saying is the truth. You can keep on shouting the mantra like Jana does "they are liars" over and over. That is YOUR freedom.


Who said we want to change the issue of the finality of the Prophet. My religion says Prophet Muhammad (SAW) is the last prophet, case closed for me. Someone else's says there are 10 more prophets after that, let them believe. Where have I said I should change my beliefs?

Theoretically correct but practically there are problems. The paths are not separate and they often overlap which creates confusion.

 

[Awesome]

And arent you practicing the same here when anyone differ or call qadianis as liars you are coming up with ban threats??????

Actually I've encouraged people to call them liars as much as they want to (within context). It's verbal and does not harm anyone. Jailing them, thats what I'm against.

Both are munafiqs because they are quoting the half verse where as the complete one says "Slay, kill the non-believers wherever you find them in the Battle filed"

Now tell me what we do in the battle ??? Dont we kill our opponent armymen or present them with flowers ??

I have never disputed the wisdom of the Quran. You don't need to convince me of it.

Agreed.

Now this is a point where we can have some agreement. See your current constitution is mixure of some Islamic rules and some secular ones. Which is unfortunate.

Either you should totally go for secular one or pure Islamic one.

In both minorities are protected. Simple as that

Protection of minorities sounds again theocratic. It sounds like some ghunda taking hafta tax.

There should be equality and for the purposes of law and order, your religion should not matter.

 

[Xeeshan]

plus State is no one to declare anyone Muslim or non Muslim, were people before 1973 all Kafirs?

then who is, in a democratic society?

 

[T-Faz]

then who is, in a democratic society?

Anyone who says he/she is one.