No one is disputing championing human rights neither we are against it.
This forum proudly close down threads whenever we are trying to champion the cause of human rights of Dalits or low cast Hindus.
It has little relevance to Pakistan. Even still we don't ban highlighting the plight of any oppressed individuals.
You can not shut us up by saying that its Pakistani forum so that cant be debated here because Human Rights are Human Rights and you also claim that this forum is International fora.
With Pakistan as its subject matter.
Then weed out the thread and post only those laws of the state which you think are discriminatory and which we would open heartly debate.
This thread starts with a Pakistani Ahmedi narrating the exact word of the law! That IS the topic of this thread.
This singling out one community if so in future you have to open up sticky threads for shia sunni, deobandis, bralvis too.
Our doors are always open to fighting for Pakistanis.
The simple soultion should have been that you should have opened a thread with asking if Forum members and Muslims on this forum support any violence against our qadyani countrymen or not.
I know you don't support violence by shooting or blowing someone up. But it is equally violent if someone gets jailed for saying they are Muslims when you think they are not.
The Pakistani Constitution is said to be based on Islamic teachings and in this case The State is only following what Quran said about who is who. Simple as that. There is no difference between Quran and Our constitution over Issue of Muslims and Non-Muslims.
Of course and this is wrong. The truth is the constitution's Islamic laws were done as a political compromise much like the NRO, where after being bullied by Mullahs Bhutto, desperately trying to hold on to his power added those laws in. Its like how Musharraf fell after doing the NRO, that was Bhuttos condition as well.
The Islamic laws of Pakistan were born out of corruption. They were a rishwat - a bribe to the Mullahs.
Anyway we're not arguing for anyone to break the law and the constitution must be respected. But at the same time we're arguing that the constitution be changed through a parliamentary vote.
There is a big difference between belief and an argument sure here they can differ with me that who have created qadyanis. They can post their history and i will post my argument
I say they are followers of Mickey Mouse and they want to call themselves Muslims. Does that make any difference? The problem is that we've become so intolerant that we won't let them say they are Muslims. Your arguments may be perfect, but they don't BELIEVE what you believe and you don't believe what they believe - a lesson that even Allah tried to pass on to Muslims in Surat - Al - Kafiroon.
Sure if they can prove the Quran and this akeeda of Khatm-e-Nabowat wrong. They are welcomed to prove it wrong.
Why Prove? Can you prove Allah? Should you be punished for not being able to prove Allah? It is a matter of belief.
I heard you questioning my faith and belief in another thread about that kazzab issue. Here i question your this stance and hypocrisy.
I didn't question your faith, I questioned your blind obedience to the idiot, Zaid Hamid. I repeatedly said that I had no qualms if he had his own faith like the Ahmedis - But he lied about it to the public and his followers and should be treated as a liar.
neither we are asking for their hands nor we are stopping them from calling themselves anything. We are just saying if they do so in violation of pure basic Islamic rules then they are kazzabs and liars simple as that.
Actually you are stopping them since they can go to jail for saying they are Muslims and the violation is of purely your own Islamic beliefs.
Many non-Muslims say so and we dont kill them for saying so.
And again why you are twisting the words who is saying kill them ??????????
Why are you limiting your words. You ARE saying to kill them when they say they are Muslims.
Or are you saying:
Ahmedis can say they are Muslims and you can say they are liars and we can go on living like this and no state would be involved and there will be no violence.
Then we have no problem and thats what I'm saying as well. You calling them liars for saying that they are Muslims, is not an issue with me, throwing them in jail or killing them for saying they are Muslims is of issue to me.
Thats what we are saying dear. Where any of us said that throw them in jail??
Read the Constitution.
What is discriminatory when Islam defines the rules for you so if you are willing to accept these rules you are welcomed to be a Muslim if you do not then Islam defines ok You are on to your faith and we are on to our faith.
What is Islam? It is what you have brought your faith into. If you bring your imaan on an Encyclopedia even that can be your religion. If you submit yourself to the teachings of this Encyclopedia and give it an arabic name of Submission you may call this Islam.
I can call you a liar - but I can't stop you from calling it anything else.
Islam gives you clear choice.
I'm not asking the parliament to change Islam, but to change the constitution.
Its like when you go to any country they have rules they give you the guidelines if you are willing to follow that guideline you are welcomed if not you are rejected simple as that.
If tomorrow the constitution of Pakistan says Jana you're a man, not a woman. You can be thrown in jail for trying to call yourself a woman. Will you accept it or work to change it?
