What's new

Agartala Conspiracy confession, what does it mean for our history

Point 3 of Lahore resolution says 'independent states in which the constituent units shall be autonomous and soverign'
3. The adjacent territorial units should be demarcated into regions that may involve some territorial adjustments in a manner “that the areas in which the Muslims are numerically in a majority as in north-western and eastern zones of India “become “independent states in which the constituent units shall be autonomous and sovereign.”

An interpretation of the Lahore Resolution - DAWN.COM

What happened to the 'states' and how did it become 'a state'??

How did 'states' become 'state'? that should be a question for ourselves, the former Eastern Bengalis ONLY. this has been talked about multiple times in this forum. not that there was just no major opposition, Bengalis wholeheartedly supported union with the Punjabis, Sindhis, Hindustanis etc. at least think about in the right context - when a certain (minority) community lives in the same country for time immemorial, struggles around a similar cause, lives with the nostalgia of a glorious past borne out of the same empires their forefathers built together, at least emotion does not let them fragment themselves off into small enclaves (comes the "moth-eaten" and "truncated"). besides emotion, there were a hundred other reasons. just one is looking at the fate of Hyderabadi Musalmans. (now you almost sound like you deem (West) Pakistanis were 'bad' because they cold-heartedly sneakily changed the spelling of states due to some cruel intentions)

yes our perfect hindsight says two separate confederations would have a better outcome in the future and it's a sorry excuse for a bunch of lowlifes that are called Bangladeshis and Pakistanis today. we should just admit we (or our forefathers) simply screwed up, and we both screwed up. i don't think this nagging of "why you treated us badly" "why you did not do this, that for us" from people like you is helping us or anyone
 
.
Simply put it, if there was no Pakistan, there would have been no Bangladesh. Talking about alternate realities is a complete waste of time.

There are various books that are part of secondary school curriculum in Bangladesh. Of-course, they were approved by the ruling BAL. They do mention and support the two-nation theory by stating details of how Muslim-Bengalis wanted a Pakistan to avoid "Hindu-domination". Suffice it to say, Mujib did support the two-nation theory.

The West Pakistani leadership did not accurately acknowledge the security matters in East Pakistan. Especially after instigating an insurgency in north east India during the 60's. East Pakistanis alternatively thought that a new nation "Bangladesh" can manage its own security. Part of why they wanted to break away.

Now as far as these present "Bengali-nationalists" go, yeah they are a bit of a mental case. As stated here by an AL supporter:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/282704-bible-scholar-makes-explosive-allegation-about-jesus-9.html#post4869156

It appears that these conspiracy theories about AL loyalists being anti-Muslim may indeed be true. How it is so remains to be seen. Seeing how Bangladeshis generals can get slaughtered by their own soldiers, and this^, security is still a far away dream.

and what you said about govt-issue history books in secondary schools is not at all the case in english medium
 
.
How did 'states' become 'state'? that should be a question for ourselves, the former Eastern Bengalis ONLY. this has been talked about multiple times in this forum. not that there was just no major opposition, Bengalis wholeheartedly supported union with the Punjabis, Sindhis, Hindustanis etc. at least think about in the right context - when a certain (minority) community lives in the same country for time immemorial, struggles around a similar cause, lives with the nostalgia of a glorious past borne out of the same empires their forefathers built together, at least emotion does not let them fragment themselves off into small enclaves (comes the "moth-eaten" and "truncated"). besides emotion, there were a hundred other reasons. just one is looking at the fate of Hyderabadi Musalmans. (now you almost sound like you deem (West) Pakistanis were 'bad' because they cold-heartedly sneakily changed the spelling of states due to some cruel intentions)

yes our perfect hindsight says two separate confederations would have a better outcome in the future and it's a sorry excuse for a bunch of lowlifes that are called Bangladeshis and Pakistanis today. we should just admit we (or our forefathers) simply screwed up, and we both screwed up. i don't think this nagging of "why you treated us badly" "why you did not do this, that for us" from people like you is helping us or anyone

And looks like I have enough reason to think that might just be true:

On April 7 1946, at Delhi’s Muslim convention “General Secretary Nawabzada Liaquat Ali Khan, at Jinnah’s instance, corrected the word ‘states’ for ‘state’ in the Lahore Resolution as a typographical error, ignoring loud protestations from Bengali councillors, the most vocal of whom were Maulana Abdul Hamid Khan Bhashani, and Abul Hashim, General Secretary of the Bengal Provincial Muslim League”

Suhrawardy and Jinnah – The Express Tribune

When Abul Hashim made his complaint, Jinnah, the lawyer, could see the problem clearly enough but his first attempt to get around it was feeble in extreme. He suggested that the letter ‘s’ after the word ‘State’ in the Lahore Resolution was a typographical error. When Liaquat Ali Khan produced the original minutes of the meeting Jinnah had to concede that he was wrong and word ‘States’ was indeed in the original text. He then fobbed off Abul Hashim’s objection by assuring the convention that the Lahore Resolution had not been amended. The resolution, he said, would be the document laid before the future Pakistani Constituent Assembly that, as a sovereign body would take all final decisions.

Book-Pakistan: Eye of the Storm
http://books.google.com/books?id=t8iYEgPYG_EC&pg=PA151&lpg=PA151&dq=lahore+resolution+typographical+error&source=bl&ots=0yufWRTRZ8&sig=OMv2o0hbTyUxsvz-1_sJvfX0fEg&hl=en&sa=X&ei=evlgUsfDJIr29gSe7YGIBw&ved=0CDcQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=lahore%20resolution%20typographical%20error&f=false

http://www.worldsindhi.org/publishedreports/5July05.html

...Someone pointed out that the word 'State' would be inconsistent with the Lahore Resolution of 1940 which clearly mentioned the word 'States'.The Qaid-E-Azam said the word states was a mistake and had cropped up probably as a result of a typographical error.It was then stated that even the Published records of the Central Office of All-India Muslim League carried the word in plural.The Qiad-E-Azam replied what really mattered was the intention and not the the word.
-MAH Ispahai.

Book-Moulana Bhashani
http://books.google.com/books?id=jR5QAAAAQBAJ&pg=PT170&lpg=PT170&dq=lahore+resolution+typographical+error&source=bl&ots=CVmdvy3k8T&sig=70_TbSecjg54Sr79gJX8eMt8C9I&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kPxgUtGEIIf-9QTqxoHwAg&ved=0CF4Q6AEwBjgK#v=onepage&q=lahore%20resolution%20typographical%20error&f=false

Same typographical error mentioned in this book too:

Book-Origins of Muslim Consciousness in India: A World-system Perspective
http://books.google.com/books?id=wzm36rEol3sC&pg=PA255&lpg=PA255&dq=lahore+resolution+typographical+error&source=bl&ots=EYpcC-NBXj&sig=gHlkEbyH_5Xvie9offYqKSGFDN0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kPxgUtGEIIf-9QTqxoHwAg&ved=0CGcQ6AEwCDgK#v=onepage&q=lahore%20resolution%20typographical%20error&f=false

Sorry I do not have any sugar-coated version of history that blames both sides equally to create a false sense of balance.And I certainly do not have any version that agrees with your sentiment that this is a question for East Bengalis only and Bengalis whole heartedly supported a union with Punjabis and others.It is clear that our leaders(Bhashani and others) did voice their opposition but denied the right of a sovereign and autonomous state simply because as you stated it they changed the spelling later on.
 
.
I read in a Daily Star article written by a Pakistani author that ISI predicted that Awami League simply had no popularity in East Pakistan which motivated Yahya Khan to hold the 1970 general elections, how could someone predict such thing? that too the highest intelligence agency of the country!

Some unknown Pakistani guy writing on Daily Star knowing about information provided by ISI? Cool story by them as always :lol:

and what you said about govt-issue history books in secondary schools is not at all the case in english medium

Yeah, I was talking about English medium. Particularly those examinations held under Cambridge University at British Council. They do have Bangladesh Studies as a course.
http://bangladesh.exams.britishcouncil.org/repo_content.php?category_id=116
 
. .
Some unknown Pakistani guy writing on Daily Star knowing about information provided by ISI? Cool story by them as always :lol:

He was probably a retired army officer or a defense analyst, can't remember exactly. Couldn't find the Daily Star article but there is something similar written in this Dawn article:

The result was more disquieting for Yahya Khan who had in a pre-poll assessment been told that no party could take a clear lead and there would be a coalition government which could be easily handled by Yahya from the top.

1970 polls: When election results created a storm - DAWN.COM

Don't know on what basis was the pre-poll assessment made! :cuckoo:
 
.
He was probably a retired army officer or a defense analyst, can't remember exactly. Couldn't find the Daily Star article but there is something similar written in this Dawn article:



Don't know on what basis was the pre-poll assessment made! :cuckoo:

Well, it doesn't say anything about the ISI now does it?

Even then, no intelligence agency in the world would share information with the media, or anywhere in public. Period.

Though, the contents of article you referred to are credible.
 
.
Well, it doesn't say anything about the ISI now does it?

The Daily Star article did mention ISI in this matter. Moreover, who do you think Yahya Khan, being the military dictator, would rely for such information? Can't see any other option than ISI!

Even then, no intelligence agency in the world would share information with the media, or anywhere in public. Period.

They didn't share it, these info were probably disclosed in the books written by the retired Pakistani officers decades after the war.
 
.
The Daily Star article did mention ISI in this matter. Moreover, who do you think Yahya Khan, being the military dictator, would rely for such information? Can't see any other option than ISI!

Daily Star's credibility in such matters are as good as horse-$hit. That was proven in this very forum.

And why would we assume that it was ISI who provided Yahya with such information? Is it an intelligence agency's job to work in election matters? So what if he's a dictator? Or just because some 2 Cent Bangladeshi newspaper said so? No one with any real spine would buy anything from them in such matters.

They didn't share it, these info were probably disclosed in the books written by the retired Pakistani officers decades after the war.

Then perhaps they can disclose as to who those "Rajaakars" really were. Who were those individuals that provided the PA with incorrect and devious information as to the whereabouts of Awami activists? And then perhaps there can be a full closure on the matter. Otherwise, they are all but talk. Most of those people write books to make money. That's just about it.
 
.
Daily Star's credibility in such matters are as good as horse-$hit. That was proven in this very forum.

Alright, perhaps I wasn't present here when it was proven but ain't the international media still rely on that newspaper for Bangladesh related affairs?

And why would we assume that it was ISI who provided Yahya with such information? Is it an intelligence agency's job to work in election matters? So what if he's a dictator? Or just because some 2 Cent Bangladeshi newspaper said so? No one with any real spine would buy anything from them in such matters.

Then who do you think provided Yahya with those info? If I were a military dictator, I would surely not rely on any ordinary sources but the highest intelligence agency of the country. They didn't work in election matters but provided Yahya with inside info about the political parties and their popularity, quite justified IMO.

Then perhaps they can disclose as to who those "Rajaakars" really were.

Well, they might have disclosed the names of Rajakars, while it's different if the Awami League government would use them in the prosecutions.:hitwall:

Who were those individuals that provided the PA with incorrect and devious information as to the whereabouts of Awami activists? And then perhaps there can be a full closure on the matter. Otherwise, they are all but talk. Most of those people write books to make money. That's just about it.

Not that knowledgeable in this particular matter, I'm just going with what I've read. About your comment on the those authors, can't deny that, but yet can't generalize them. As an exceptional, Khadim Hussain Raja refrained from publishing his book "A stranger in my own country" in his life time and was only published posthumously.
 
.
Alright, perhaps I wasn't present here when it was proven but ain't the international media still rely on that newspaper for Bangladesh related affairs?

Not necessarily in matters relating to security and military history. I failed to find one, just one credible article coming from them in relation to such affairs.

They even once claimed that ISI funded BNP during the elections back in the early 90's. Figured out that the claim orginated from an anonymous Dubai-based newspaper. Now that's not evidence. Coming back to the point, an intelligence agency never shares information with the public.

Then who do you think provided Yahya with those info? If I were a military dictator, I would surely not rely on any ordinary sources but the highest intelligence agency of the country. They didn't work in election matters but provided Yahya with inside info about the political parties and their popularity, quite justified IMO.

Again? Where's their proof? Assumptions don't count.

Well, they might have disclosed the names of Rajakars, while it's different if the Awami League government would use them in the prosecutions.:hitwall:

Again, proof that Pakistan had offered information in regards to that. Not mere fairy tales or maybes. Information management was never Bangladesh's greatest strength back in the 70's. And still isn't.

But I think it's better if we see how that goes.
 
.
Not necessarily in matters relating to security and military history. I failed to find one, just one credible article coming from them in relation to such affairs.

They even once claimed that ISI funded BNP during the elections back in the early 90's. Figured out that the claim orginated from an anonymous Dubai-based newspaper. Now that's not evidence. Coming back to the point, an intelligence agency never shares information with the public.

Ok not advocating for Daily Star but you once posted a file of wikileaks (back in 2011 I guess) where an army officer was seeking to know possible US reaction from the ambassador if there was a coup, in that file it was also mentioned that Raw funded Awami League during the 96 elections while ISI funded BNP if I remember correctly.

Again? Where's their proof? Assumptions don't count.

It was a mere column by a Pakistani author, not a research book after all. :lol:

Again, proof that Pakistan had offered information in regards to that. Not mere fairy tales or maybes. Information management was never Bangladesh's greatest strength back in the 70's. And still isn't.

But I think it's better if we see how that goes.

for the bold part, that's all we can do for now! :hitwall:
 
.
Point 3 of Lahore resolution says 'independent states in which the constituent units shall be autonomous and soverign'
3. The adjacent territorial units should be demarcated into regions that may involve some territorial adjustments in a manner “that the areas in which the Muslims are numerically in a majority as in north-western and eastern zones of India “become “independent states in which the constituent units shall be autonomous and sovereign.”

An interpretation of the Lahore Resolution - DAWN.COM

What happened to the 'states' and how did it become 'a state'??

1. Benglaee Muslims had pioneered the Pakistan /Two Nation movement for many reasons.

a. The Message of Islam had arrived at the shore of Bengal-Arakan during the lifetime of the Holy Prophet pbuh - which was much earlier than the western extremity of SA. Thereafter various teachers/sufi saints had settled down in this land to serve Islam and the Muslims. Whether revolting against Emperor Akbar against his coziness with the Hindu faith, or the revolt against the English Co 1857, or subsequent Faraizi movement, or Titumir's Jihad, or the sustained aid to the Pashtun struggle against the British including total acceptance of Shaheed Syed Ahmed's Jihad, or the Khilafat movement, the Bengalee Muslims never shirked in serving Islam. Having received the Message unadulterated and direct they nurtured it carefully over the centuries.

b. Bengalee Muslims had been rendered poor and mostly illiterate after the Permanent Settlement Act. The British rulers, the Hindu zamindars and the Hindu mahajons (banyas) exploited the Muslims with all the powers and resources remaining at their command.

c. Bengalee Muslims sought to retrieve their sovereign land of Bangla-Bihar-Orissa that they had lost to the treachery of Hindu Marwaris, Hindu clergy, the English cheats and the ambitious traitors in the Court.

2. The personality clash between Shere Bangla and Jinnah needs to be understood also. Just look at Shere Bangla's CV.A. K. Fazlul Huq - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. What an outstanding man he was! The personal differences between the two began during the Lahore Session of AIML when the Lahore Resolution 1940 was adopted. Earler Gandhi had called him a iger of Bengal when during a conference Huq had pounded the table so hard that it broke into pieces. He was a tall and powerful man physically known to devour enormous amount of food. Huq, then PM of India's largest province, had arrived late at the meeting when Jinnah was already in the midst of his chairman's address- and Jinnah spoke in English only. When Huq arrived he was received with full-throated cries of "Shere Bangla - Zindabad". This a spontaneous response by the Lahorites, and thereafter the title Shere Bangla stuck with his name. The audience now clamored for Jinnah to stop his speech and let Shere Bangla speak. It took Huq 8 mins to quieten the audience to hear Jinnah first. Then Jinnah made this famous comment, "When the Tiger enters, the lamb must give way." Huq was a very good orator in Urdu as in Bangla. He was also fluent in Arabic, Persian as in English.When Huq had joined the Viceroy's War Council, Jinnah asked him and other Muslim members to resign. Huq complied but also resigned from AML. Huq was motivated by factors in Bengal politics which non-Bengalee members of AIML high command did not appreciate. The contribution of Huq in freeing the Bengalee Muslims from the never-ending debt to the mahajon banyas and in spreading education among the Bengalee Muslims is service by leader unparalleled in the annuls of history when you consider the Brits were still the rulers.

3. The next AIML session was held at Delhi,1946 when H. Suhroawrady (HS) was the PM of Bengal. HS was another outstanding man coming from an elite family of scholars. At the behest of Jinnah it fell on him to move the resolution amending the original expunging the letter "s". There was much opposition to this from Bengal but HS complied with Jinnah's instruction.

4. The 1945-46 elections were held as the crucial referendum for the Pakistan project. HS,as the leader of BPML, single handedly won this election for AIML in Bengal. Jinnah had interfered with the parliamentary board in Sind and such he was not invited for election campaign in Bengal.Liaqat had visited Gafargaon, Mymensingh once but AIML had lost this seat miserably. The result was complete victory for ML in Bengal. The tally was 114 out of 119, the other 5 going to Huq's KPP. NWFP,Punjab and Sind had voted against Pakistan.

5. Therefore, there would be no Pakistan without Bengal and without removal of the "s". This point somehow was not explained to the Bengalees adequately at that time. Furthermore and crucially, effort should have been made immediately after Partition to return to the Lahore Resolution. But soon after Jinnah's death Liaqat Ali Khan and the feudal-industrial interests as well as bureaucrats had entered into powerful positions in the state to convert the the Eastern wing into an object of exploitation. Perhaps Ayub had sincerely desired to reverse the process, but he had lost his time by then.
 
.
@asad71 Bhai, when you have some free time, I would like to request you to give us info in brief about role of the following people in late 1960's Agartala case:

1. Shawkat Ali and others in RAW payroll (around 1500)
2. Sheikh Mujib
3. 34 others accused in the case
4. Ayub Khan
5. Yahya Khan
6. Bhashani

Reference:
BANGLAPEDIA: Agartala Conspiracy Case

And also please elaborate on:
1. the idea that then East Pakistan Bengali Muslims shook hands with India, an enemy state and thus can be described as traitors.
2. who can be blamed for the breakup of Pakistan, RAW agents who infiltrated and started killing Biharis, or Yahya Khan who led the team that planned and executed Operation Searchlight. How about a combination of both factors above or none of the above?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
.
5. Therefore, there would be no Pakistan without Bengal


Absolutely and whole Pakistan economy flourishes on the sale money of Jute alone, produce at poor Bengal itself and if somehow Bengal came out from this union Pakistan as an entity evaporates in air instantly.

Sir, Its been 40 years now and people of West Pakistan preserve and nourishes the two nation theory like bible despite having an heterogeneous demographics in nature and its per capita is still handsomely above to east to the very least.......:lol:
 
.

Pakistan Affairs Latest Posts

Country Latest Posts

Back
Top Bottom