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Agartala Conspiracy confession, what does it mean for our history

Your previous comment shows that it was never me me me. The Bengali Muslims were never even recognized or at least some of the most important decisions and conferences would have been held in Bengal. How many times did Jinnah actually visit Bengal and East Pakistan before and after 1947? How many times did Bengal leaders travel to the West during the same period. What arrogance to treat the Bengal Muslims as subordinate when it as them that galvanized the move for Pakistan.

Galvanized the move for Pakistan ? Who are we kidding here with this self-righteous narrative ? Just because the Muslims of Bengal along with other Muslims from the rest of British India, gave birth to the Muslim League in Dhaka at the backdrop of the Reversal of the Partitioning of Bengal, does not automatically place Bengali Muslims & Bengal on a higher pedestal than the rest of us !

In fact it would be just as absurd as saying that because Allama Iqbal was a Punjabi of Kashmiri Ethnicity (like myself), somehow I or the people of Punjab or those of Kashmir have bragging rights over the Pakistan Movement seeing that it was he & he alone who gave any real shape to the Pakistan Movement through his Allahabad Address of 1930.

At any rate the presence or absence of any event of note in Bengal is as ludicrous as a Sindhi, a Pashtun, a Hyderabadi or a Kashmiri Muslim saying because most of the events were happening either in Delhi, Lucknow, Lahore, Dhaka or others - We were the neglected ones !

And besides if there was any perceived neglect or toning-down on the contributions of Bengal in all of this the Bengali Muslim Stalwarts of note would've said something at time so surely a quote or two from them whereby they were being subordinated by the rest of us would be something I look forward to from you.

That others parts were not as affected as Bengal is shown by the fact they required much more convincing to be part of Pakistan. It was because Bengal had the most discrimination and oppression that the demand for Pakistan arose but even your comments show that Bengal Muslims had no place in decision making and were thought of as subsidiary.

What kind of a ludicrous aspersion is that ?

If we never cared about Bengali Muslims or didn't recognize the part they played in the Pakistan Movement our Pakistan Studies Books wouldn't explicitly mention Bengal of the Mughal Era & before, the Partitioning of Bengal, the Reversal of that Partitioning, the birth of the Muslim League at Dhaka & the exceptional contributions of Bengali Muslims like Suhrawardy, Fazlul-Haq, Nazimuddin amongst others.

Yes the Pakistan Studies Books have a habit of white-washing the whole '71 thing in a single paragraph without any blame being apportioned to us or to even Bengalis for that matter but they sure as hell haven't censored out Bengali Muslims who built the country up !

Every kid whose every gone through the system knows about Suhrawardy, about Fazlul-Haq, about Nazimuddin & others but I'd be mighty surprised if the average Bangladeshi knows about some of our Leaders or even knows about Quaid-e-Azam in a positive light - Theres just no comparison over here !

So many places all over Pakistan are named after those Bengali Stalwarts but is their even a tight street named in Bangladesh after any of Our Leaders ? So please spare me the comparison when there is none !

Besides even at the backdrop of '71 we didn't butcher a single Bengali here & even the guy tasked with investigating what the hell happened in '71 that caused the country to rip asunder was a Bengali - Justice Humoodor Rehman ! Whose son today is the Chief Justice of the Islamabad High Court & is widely respected in the Legal & Journalistic Circles as one of those honorable Judges who refused to take oath under Musharraf's Provisional Constitutional Order !

Even Suhrawardy Sahib's granddaughter Shahida Jamil who became Pakistan's First Women Law Minister is widely respected in Pakistan !

Heck where more than 2 million Illegal Bangladeshi reside in Pakistan without anyone asking them to go back to Bangladesh & a few million more Pakistani Bengalis who are extremely well-integrated in the society ! Even I, despite what I say in my bouts of anger, don't want the Bengalis to leave - They are Our People....our brothers & sisters, our sons & our daughters & they are living in their Motherland ! I mean that even about the 2 million Illegal Bangladeshis ! I want the Biharis that my Government threw in '71 back & I'd want the 2 million Illegal Bangladeshis to stay as well !

So honestly, who are you kidding ? There is no comparison here & there is no belittling Bengalis by us !

Heck my own paternal uncle was born in Dhaka ! :lol:

' @Secur - Your input is required ! :)
 
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Simply put it, if there was no Pakistan, there would have been no Bangladesh. Talking about alternate realities is a complete waste of time.

There are various books that are part of secondary school curriculum in Bangladesh. Of-course, they were approved by the ruling BAL. They do mention and support the two-nation theory by stating details of how Muslim-Bengalis wanted a Pakistan to avoid "Hindu-domination". Suffice it to say, Mujib did support the two-nation theory.

The West Pakistani leadership did not accurately acknowledge the security matters in East Pakistan. Especially after instigating an insurgency in north east India during the 60's. East Pakistanis alternatively thought that a new nation "Bangladesh" can manage its own security. Part of why they wanted to break away.

Now as far as these present "Bengali-nationalists" go, yeah they are a bit of a mental case. As stated here by an AL supporter:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/282704-bible-scholar-makes-explosive-allegation-about-jesus-9.html#post4869156

It appears that these conspiracy theories about AL loyalists being anti-Muslim may indeed be true. How it is so remains to be seen. Seeing how Bangladeshis generals can get slaughtered by their own soldiers, and this^, security is still a far away dream.

1.If there was no pioneering movement from the Bengalee Muslims, there would be no Pakistan. Even the last minute shift in NWFP had a Bengalee input. The Political Agent Iskandar Mirza played a crucial role in motivating the tribal Maliks to support Pakistan. In this Mirza was working on a direct instruction from Jinnah. Mirza was not a Bengalee but was counted as an E Pakistani. His mother tongue was Persian which was spoken at his home.He had also mastered Pashtu.

2. Pakistan, BD and the Muslims remaining in India face a common foe - the rising Hindu extremism which seeks to eliminate all Muslims from SA. Therefore, SA Muslims must re-examine the famous Lahore Resolution, 1940 moved by the Shere Banlgla.Perhaps a salvation can be found there.
 
Fine if you consider changing decision according to situation flip-flopping...Your founding fathers Iqbal and Jinnah are flip floppers just like me.

Don't hide behind Quaid and Iqbal repeatedly....they took their time and stick with their final decision for rest of their life unlike you.

My UB point is still valid...it was an option that did not work out....that's why we went for Pakistan.

Why you people always have multiple options under your sleeves? don't you tired of yourself!

Agartala conspiracy did not happen in 71...it was in early 1968...it had nothing to do with Mujib's premiership(you just proved you do not have the knowledge of the subject of the thread)...Mujib was elected in 70!

Don't circle around....Mujib was a traitor to United Pakistan just say=Yes or No:azn:

Yes half of our population follow one party and the other half follows another party....its called democracy(I do not expect you to understand)....

In democracy all are statesmans no one is Gaddar's to the very least....and here half of your population is gaddar to other half.

Good we bengalis are non-ideological flip-floppers(who got what they wanted) and you the West Pakistani Muslims are the ideological Muslims who are carrying out the cosmic battle against the evil Qadiyanis!May you go to heaven...we will stay in our flood plain!We do not seek Pakistani,Indian or West Bengali alliance...specially how can we the ungrateful Bengalis who couldn't accept a genocide from the army of the great Islamic republic even dream about an alliance with the angelic ideological Muslims of Pakistan let alone all the Baniyas!

On Idealogy....you poeple should be pissed off like that....even banyas are better what you stated above on this subject.
 
1.If there was no pioneering movement from the Bengalee Muslims, there would be no Pakistan. Even the last minute shift in NWFP had a Bengalee input. The Political Agent Iskandar Mirza played a crucial role in motivating the tribal Maliks to support Pakistan. In this Mirza was working on a direct instruction from Jinnah. Mirza was not a Bengalee but was counted as an E Pakistani. His mother tongue was Persian which was spoken at his home.He had also mastered Pashtu.

2. Pakistan, BD and the Muslims remaining in India face a common foe - the rising Hindu extremism which seeks to eliminate all Muslims from SA. Therefore, SA Muslims must re-examine the famous Lahore Resolution, 1940 moved by the Shere Banlgla.Perhaps a salvation can be found there.

Point 3 of Lahore resolution says 'independent states in which the constituent units shall be autonomous and soverign'
3. The adjacent territorial units should be demarcated into regions that may involve some territorial adjustments in a manner “that the areas in which the Muslims are numerically in a majority as in north-western and eastern zones of India “become “independent states in which the constituent units shall be autonomous and sovereign.”

An interpretation of the Lahore Resolution - DAWN.COM

What happened to the 'states' and how did it become 'a state'??
 
Mujib probably had nothing to do with Agartala conspiracy in the first place :lol:

It was a group of disgruntled officers like Col. Shawkat Ali who did it to seek help, support and coordination from RAW. That was the main point behind the Agartala matter.

And maybe Mujib was falsely accused in the case. Otherwise, why would they let him go? Were Pakistanis dumb? Maybe seeing from the monk's tale in a bliss of sorrow.

Awamis are promoting Mujib as such for their own reasons. I mean, why would they all of the sudden after all these years? What can the nation possibly gain at this time by saying such?
In Conversation with Col (retd) Shawkat Ali « Dhaka Courier

I read in a Daily Star article written by a Pakistani author that ISI predicted that Awami League simply had no popularity in East Pakistan which motivated Yahya Khan to hold the 1970 general elections, how could someone predict such thing? that too the highest intelligence agency of the country!
 
Don't hide behind Quaid and Iqbal repeatedly....they took their time and stick with their final decision for rest of their life unlike you.



Why you people always have multiple options under your sleeves? don't you tired of yourself!



Don't circle around....Mujib was a traitor to United Pakistan just say=Yes or No:azn:



In democracy all are statesmans no one is Gaddar's to the very least....and here half of your population is gaddar to other half.



On Idealogy....you poeple should be pissed off like that....even banyas are better what you stated above on this subject.

1.I don't hide behind anyone.52 years Iqbal remains loyal Hindustan(while we already faced discrimination and partioned bengal in 1905)...then in 1930,8 years before he died he changes his mind(flip flopping Bengalee).....Jinnah a strong believer of Two-Nation theory(theorized during Aligarh Movement of 1906) still negotiated with Gandhi and Nehru till the last moment(couldn't make up his mind??)....Both of them changed their minds when the situation demanded...Just like we did!

2.Because we are smart!

3.Absolutely NOT!

4.Even in the best examples of democracies one party always claims the other party is a sellout to a specific interest.

5.Absolutely happy not to conform to fragile ideologies that cannot be upheld with the course of time.
 
@genmirajborgza786 - So how do your efforts towards bridging the gaps between Pakistan & Bangladesh fair ? :what:
 
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@genmirajborgza786

So how do your efforts towards bridging the gaps between Pakistan & Bangladesh fair ? :what:

both Pakistan & Bangladesh must respect each others independence & strengthen their relations ,agreed both Pakistan & Bangladesh have their differences, while one admires Quaid e Azam ,the other admires Mujib/Zia, & all of these gentlemen supported separations from India in 47 , one will not find any Maula Abul kalam Azad amongst us , because we both rejected his ideals , we are Pakistanis & Bangladeshis here & are proud of it, our separate identities from India is what sets us apart, & we complement each others independence with both our countries desire to live as free separate & sovereign nations

let not the burden of 1971 overshadow this beautiful aspect, with all our differences & bickering's , we both are justifications for each others existence & we share & compliment each others independent Pakistan & independent Bangladesh

lets strive hard to make Pakistan, a power house like turkey & lets strive hard to make Bangladesh a power house like South Korea

looking @ their industrial & military power, give Turkey & South Korea nukes, & they will give India & China a run for their money !
& Pakistan is 93,000 sq km larger then Turkey ! while Bangladesh is 45,000 sq km larger then South Korea !

we both have everything, what else can we want, all we both need is leadership & respect each others independence & sovereignty & work hard to improve our ties & trust me the sky is the limit

Pakistan zindabad !

Bangladesh zindabad !

RegionMap_Pakistan_Sri-Lanka_Bangladesh.png


what we both have is precious, lest we forget

 
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Galvanized the move for Pakistan ? Who are we kidding here with this self-righteous narrative ? Just because the Muslims of Bengal along with other Muslims from the rest of British India, gave birth to the Muslim League in Dhaka at the backdrop of the Reversal of the Partitioning of Bengal, does not automatically place Bengali Muslims & Bengal on a higher pedestal than the rest of us !

In fact it would be just as absurd as saying that because Allama Iqbal was a Punjabi of Kashmiri Ethnicity (like myself), somehow I or the people of Punjab or those of Kashmir have bragging rights over the Pakistan Movement seeing that it was he & he alone who gave any real shape to the Pakistan Movement through his Allahabad Address of 1930.

At any rate the presence or absence of any event of note in Bengal is as ludicrous as a Sindhi, a Pashtun, a Hyderabadi or a Kashmiri Muslim saying because most of the events were happening either in Delhi, Lucknow, Lahore, Dhaka or others - We were the neglected ones !

And besides if there was any perceived neglect or toning-down on the contributions of Bengal in all of this the Bengali Muslim Stalwarts of note would've said something at time so surely a quote or two from them whereby they were being subordinated by the rest of us would be something I look forward to from you.

Yes blah blah blah but where would have been Pakistan without the Bengal Muslims. Still in the dreams of Choudry Rahmat Ali and you would not have even got a moth eaten Pakistan.



What kind of a ludicrous aspersion is that ?

If we never cared about Bengali Muslims or didn't recognize the part they played in the Pakistan Movement our Pakistan Studies Books wouldn't explicitly mention Bengal of the Mughal Era & before, the Partitioning of Bengal, the Reversal of that Partitioning, the birth of the Muslim League at Dhaka & the exceptional contributions of Bengali Muslims like Suhrawardy, Fazlul-Haq, Nazimuddin amongst others.

Yes the Pakistan Studies Books have a habit of white-washing the whole '71 thing in a single paragraph without any blame being apportioned to us or to even Bengalis for that matter but they sure as hell haven't censored out Bengali Muslims who built the country up !

Every kid whose every gone through the system knows about Suhrawardy, about Fazlul-Haq, about Nazimuddin & others but I'd be mighty surprised if the average Bangladeshi knows about some of our Leaders or even knows about Quaid-e-Azam in a positive light - Theres just no comparison over here !

So many places all over Pakistan are named after those Bengali Stalwarts but is their even a tight street named in Bangladesh after any of Our Leaders ? So please spare me the comparison when there is none !

Besides even at the backdrop of '71 we didn't butcher a single Bengali here & even the guy tasked with investigating what the hell happened in '71 that caused the country to rip asunder was a Bengali - Justice Humoodor Rehman ! Whose son today is the Chief Justice of the Islamabad High Court & is widely respected in the Legal & Journalistic Circles as one of those honorable Judges who refused to take oath under Musharraf's Provisional Constitutional Order !

Even Suhrawardy Sahib's granddaughter Shahida Jamil who became Pakistan's First Women Law Minister is widely respected in Pakistan !

Heck where more than 2 million Illegal Bangladeshi reside in Pakistan without anyone asking them to go back to Bangladesh & a few million more Pakistani Bengalis who are extremely well-integrated in the society ! Even I, despite what I say in my bouts of anger, don't want the Bengalis to leave - They are Our People....our brothers & sisters, our sons & our daughters & they are living in their Motherland ! I mean that even about the 2 million Illegal Bangladeshis ! I want the Biharis that my Government threw in '71 back & I'd want the 2 million Illegal Bangladeshis to stay as well !

So honestly, who are you kidding ? There is no comparison here & there is no belittling Bengalis by us !

Heck my own paternal uncle was born in Dhaka ! :lol:

' @Secur - Your input is required ! :)

Why are you writing a whole lot of stuff about ideas that I do not share with the present government or their politics? I have already said that many Bangladeshis have a wrong understanding about 1971 and have omitted large chunks of history but we eventually go back to the original idea usually through violence and bloodshed and then return to normality.
 
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both Pakistan & Bangladesh much respect each others independence & strengthen their relations ,agreed both Pakistan & Bangladesh have their differences, while one admires Quaid e Azam ,the other admires Mujib/Zia, & all of these gentlemen supported separations from India in 47 , one will not find any Maula Abul kalam Azad amongst us , because we both rejected his ideals , we are Pakistanis & Bangladeshis here & are proud of it, our separate identities from India is what sets us apart, & we complement each others independence with both our countries desire to live as free separate & sovereign nations

let not the burden of 1971 overshadow this beautiful aspect, with all our differences & bickering's , we both are justifications for each others existence & we share & compliment each others independent Pakistan & independent Bangladesh

lets strive hard to make Pakistan, a power house like turkey & lets strive hard to make Bangladesh a power house like South Korea

looking @ their industrial & military power, give Turkey & South Korea nukes, & they will give India & China a run for their money !
& Pakistan is 93,000 sq km larger then Turkey ! while Bangladesh is 45,000 sq km larger then South Korea !

we both have everything, what else can we want, all we both need is leadership & respect each others independence & sovereignty & work hard to improve our ties & trust me the sky is the limit

Pakistan zindabad !

Bangladesh zindabad !

RegionMap_Pakistan_Sri-Lanka_Bangladesh.png


what we both have is precious, lest we forget


Well said bro. We should take care not to bad mouth each other and hurt each others feelings or interest, but we can agree to disagree on the past giving due respect to the victims from both sides. And future is always more important than the past. Sky is the limit for each nation state if they can set their mind to it:

The Secrets of Intangible Wealth - WSJ.com
The Secrets of Intangible Wealth
By RONALD BAILEY

A Mexican migrant to the U.S. is five times more productive than one who stays home. Why is that? The answer is not the obvious one: This country has more machinery or tools or natural resources. Instead, according to some remarkable but largely ignored research -- by the World Bank, of all places -- it is because the average American has access to over $418,000 in intangible wealth, while the stay-at-home Mexican's intangible wealth is just $34,000.

But what is intangible wealth, and how on earth is it measured? And what does it mean for the world's people -- poor and rich? That's where the story gets even more interesting.

Two years ago the World Bank's environmental economics department set out to assess the relative contributions of various kinds of capital to economic development. Its study, "Where is the Wealth of Nations?: Measuring Capital for the 21st Century," began by defining natural capital as the sum of nonrenewable resources (including oil, natural gas, coal and mineral resources), cropland, pasture land, forested areas and protected areas. Produced, or built, capital is what many of us think of when we think of capital: the sum of machinery, equipment, and structures (including infrastructure) and urban land.

But once the value of all these are added up, the economists found something big was still missing: the vast majority of world's wealth! If one simply adds up the current value of a country's natural resources and produced, or built, capital, there's no way that can account for that country's level of income.

The rest is the result of "intangible" factors -- such as the trust among people in a society, an efficient judicial system, clear property rights and effective government. All this intangible capital also boosts the productivity of labor and results in higher total wealth. In fact, the World Bank finds, "Human capital and the value of institutions (as measured by rule of law) constitute the largest share of wealth in virtually all countries."

Once one takes into account all of the world's natural resources and produced capital, 80% of the wealth of rich countries and 60% of the wealth of poor countries is of this intangible type. The bottom line: "Rich countries are largely rich because of the skills of their populations and the quality of the institutions supporting economic activity."

What the World Bank economists have brilliantly done is quantify the intangible value of education and social institutions. According to their regression analyses, for example, the rule of law explains 57% of countries' intangible capital. Education accounts for 36%.

The rule-of-law index was devised using several hundred individual variables measuring perceptions of governance, drawn from 25 separate data sources constructed by 18 different organizations. The latter include civil society groups (Freedom House), political and business risk-rating agencies (Economist Intelligence Unit) and think tanks (International Budget Project Open Budget Index).

Switzerland scores 99.5 out of 100 on the rule-of-law index and the U.S. hits 91.8. By contrast, Nigeria's score is a pitiful 5.8; Burundi's 4.3; and Ethiopia's 16.4. The members of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development -- 30 wealthy developed countries -- have an average score of 90, while sub-Saharan Africa's is a dismal 28.

The natural wealth in rich countries like the U.S. is a tiny proportion of their overall wealth -- typically 1% to 3% -- yet they derive more value from what they have. Cropland, pastures and forests are more valuable in rich countries because they can be combined with other capital like machinery and strong property rights to produce more value. Machinery, buildings, roads and so forth account for 17% of the rich countries' total wealth.

Overall, the average per capita wealth in the rich Organization for Economic Cooperation Development (OECD) countries is $440,000, consisting of $10,000 in natural capital, $76,000 in produced capital, and a whopping $354,000 in intangible capital. (Switzerland has the highest per capita wealth, at $648,000. The U.S. is fourth at $513,000.)

By comparison, the World Bank study finds that total wealth for the low income countries averages $7,216 per person. That consists of $2,075 in natural capital, $1,150 in produced capital and $3,991 in intangible capital. The countries with the lowest per capita wealth are Ethiopia ($1,965), Nigeria ($2,748), and Burundi ($2,859).

In fact, some countries are so badly run, that they actually have negative intangible capital. Through rampant corruption and failing school systems, Nigeria and the Democratic Republic of the Congo are destroying their intangible capital and ensuring that their people will be poorer in the future.

In the U.S., according to the World Bank study, natural capital is $15,000 per person, produced capital is $80,000 and intangible capital is $418,000. And thus, considering common measure used to compare countries, its annual purchasing power parity GDP per capita is $43,800. By contrast, oil-rich Mexico's total natural capital per person is $8,500 ($6,000 due to oil), produced capital is $19,000 and intangible capita is $34,500 -- a total of $62,000 per person. Yet its GDP per capita is $10,700. When a Mexican, or for that matter, a South Asian or African, walks across our border, they gain immediate access to intangible capital worth $418,000 per person. Who wouldn't walk across the border in such circumstances?

The World Bank study bolsters the deep insights of the late development economist Peter Bauer. In his brilliant 1972 book "Dissent on Development," Bauer wrote: "If all conditions for development other than capital are present, capital will soon be generated locally or will be available . . . from abroad. . . . If, however, the conditions for development are not present, then aid . . . will be necessarily unproductive and therefore ineffective. Thus, if the mainsprings of development are present, material progress will occur even without foreign aid. If they are absent, it will not occur even with aid."

The World Bank's path breaking "Where is the Wealth of Nations?" convincingly demonstrates that the "mainsprings of development" are the rule of law and a good school system. The big question that its researchers don't answer is: How can the people of the developing world rid themselves of the kleptocrats who loot their countries and keep them poor?
Mr. Bailey is Reason magazine's science correspondent.

Reference:
http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTEEI/214578-1110886258964/20748034/All.pdf
http://s3.amazonaws.com/caa-production/attachments/119/C_Page30to33_Cobb.pdf?1366918944
http://www-wds.worldbank.org/extern...58349_20130326131617/Rendered/PDF/wps6391.pdf
http://www.princeton.edu/~reinhard/pdfs/WEALTH-ECON-100-2002May-15-2010.pdf
 
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Simply put it, if there was no Pakistan, there would have been no Bangladesh. Talking about alternate realities is a complete waste of time.

There are various books that are part of secondary school curriculum in Bangladesh. Of-course, they were approved by the ruling BAL. They do mention and support the two-nation theory by stating details of how Muslim-Bengalis wanted a Pakistan to avoid "Hindu-domination". Suffice it to say, Mujib did support the two-nation theory.

The West Pakistani leadership did not accurately acknowledge the security matters in East Pakistan. Especially after instigating an insurgency in north east India during the 60's. East Pakistanis alternatively thought that a new nation "Bangladesh" can manage its own security. Part of why they wanted to break away.

Now as far as these present "Bengali-nationalists" go, yeah they are a bit of a mental case. As stated here by an AL supporter:
http://www.defence.pk/forums/members-club/282704-bible-scholar-makes-explosive-allegation-about-jesus-9.html#post4869156

It appears that these conspiracy theories about AL loyalists being anti-Muslim may indeed be true. How it is so remains to be seen. Seeing how Bangladeshis generals can get slaughtered by their own soldiers, and this^, security is still a far away dream.

is he for real?? amare mairala :hitwall:
 
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