AFPAK Administrative Union an Ultimate Peacemaker?

[Kompromat]

I agree with you. Whenever you don't see me commenting, it means I agree wholeheartedly.

I want to make it absolutely clear, that this thought is not motivated out of the ummah concept. I "believe" its a "Geographic and Economic Inevitability".

 

[Hyperion]

I want to make it absolutely clear, that this thought is not motivated out of the ummah concept. I "believe" its a "Geographic and Economic Inevitability".

LOL... I know, buddy!

However, do note it down in CAPS on the main page.

 

[Kompromat]

LOL... I know, buddy!

However, do note it down in CAPS on the main page.

Its not THE reason but one of them, it will earn us a huge leverage in 56 OIC countries.

 

[Hyperion]

Its not THE reason but one of them, it will earn us a huge leverage in 56 OIC countries.

Well, I often say that: If your personal aims and that of Islam coalesce, why not integrate Islam in your marketing strategy?


BTW, there is no such thing as OIC. Bunch of fools, they are in dire need of new leadership. I shall be tendering my credentials for the post, soon!

 

[Sugarcane]

I agree with you but your paragraph is suggesting that it's not doable when interest of multiple countries are involved. US is not there just to fight Al-Qaeda.

 

[illusion8]

Pakistan always laments that their major problem is a shared Afghanistan border and the terrain that allows the drugs, arms and Taliban to come in. Afghanistan as some say is an empire killer - what chance does Pakistan have to monitor this?. Also I disagree on one part - there will be increase in terrorism rather than decrease. Pakistan has not been able to control it in a relatively small section I don't see how they can effectively to do that in the whole AF PAK region where the coalition forces and the USSR failed before. Talibanization increased and took hold under the watch of Pakistan in Afg in the 90's, it will spiral out of control now and in addition will affect much of Pakistan in the bargain.

Pakistan itself is unable to cope with its own sets of problems - dont see how it can manage one more unruly empire, and other than geographical benefits cannot see any value additions that Afg can bring to the table.

But the idea is very good and a positive for both countries in an ideal world.

 

[KingMamba]

Pakistan always laments that their major problem is a shared Afghanistan border and the terrain that allows the drugs, arms and Taliban to come in. Afghanistan as some say is an empire killer - what chance does Pakistan have to monitor this?. Also I disagree on one part - there will be increase in terrorism rather than decrease. Pakistan has not been able to control it in a relatively small section I don't see how they can effectively to do that in the whole AF PAK region where the coalition forces and the USSR failed before. Talibanization increased and took hold under the watch of Pakistan in Afg in the 90's, it will spiral out of control now and in addition will affect much of Pakistan in the bargain.

Pakistan itself is unable to cope with its own sets of problems - dont see how it can manage one more unruly empire, and other than geographical benefits cannot see any value additions that Afg can bring to the table.

But the idea is very good and a positive for both countries in an ideal world.

The reason Talibanization has grown when foreigners went into Afghanistan is because it gave the Taliban considerably easy recruiting power, all they have to say is come defend your country from these occupiers. In the case of Pakistan there would be no justification because most of the Pakistanis that would be going back and forth into Afghanistan would be Pushtu and most of these people have families on both sides to begin with anyway. The only people who really would have a problem with this would be the Afghan Uzbeks,and Tajiks but they would have to be on board if this were to happen anyway.

 

[Kompromat]

Pakistan always laments that their major problem is a shared Afghanistan border and the terrain that allows the drugs, arms and Taliban to come in. Afghanistan as some say is an empire killer - what chance does Pakistan have to monitor this?. Also I disagree on one part - there will be increase in terrorism rather than decrease. Pakistan has not been able to control it in a relatively small section I don't see how they can effectively to do that in the whole AF PAK region where the coalition forces and the USSR failed before. Talibanization increased and took hold under the watch of Pakistan in Afg in the 90's, it will spiral out of control now and in addition will affect much of Pakistan in the bargain.

Pakistan itself is unable to cope with its own sets of problems - dont see how it can manage one more unruly empire, and other than geographical benefits cannot see any value additions that Afg can bring to the table.

But the idea is very good and a positive for both countries in an ideal world.

We Can - once foreign support is eliminated.

 

[Icarus]

Such a union will be the end of both countries. The Afghans have a severe dislike for Pakistan as it is, particularly the Pukhtun segment of society is very hostile towards Pakistan because of Pakistan's control over what were once Afghan regions. Secondly, we have enough problems of a parochial nature as it is, would it really be wise to include more ethnic groups into our federation?

 

[Kompromat]

Such a union will be the end of both countries. The Afghans have a severe dislike for Pakistan as it is, particularly the Pukhtun segment of society is very hostile towards Pakistan because of Pakistan's control over what were once Afghan regions. Secondly, we have enough problems of a parochial nature as it is, would it really be wise to include more ethnic groups into our federation?

I, am not asking for a federation but a "cooperative union" with 2 different governments like they have in the UAE but with an open economy, foreign policy, education system etc. The way i look at it is that the geographic reality is not going to change, we can chose to turn our eye away from Afghanistan and let them mind their own business but would that help us change or influence the situation?

The way i look at it, is that the Afghanistan is going to become a hot steel rod after the US leaves, it will be molded irreversibly to their favor by whoever takes the first chance. We, can have a pro Indian govt which i don't know is what we want in Afghanistan or we can bite the bullet and work to stabilize it and have it friendly. [You know better on that]

We have millions of Afghans we honestly can't deport now, plus we have dependency on Afghanistan to make the most of Gwadar and access to Russia. The more we involve big economies in our economy the more we will be secured. Lastly, it is just about time in my opinion when we would have to make a choice, If we want an Afghanistan with Indians calling the shots, Indian Army training Afghan Army and civic leadership and ending up with another enemy on the west or we decide to bite the bullet and compromise on "give some take some" basis.

Regards:

 

[CYNOX]

Such a union will be the end of both countries. The Afghans have a severe dislike for Pakistan as it is, particularly the Pukhtun segment of society is very hostile towards Pakistan because of Pakistan's control over what were once Afghan regions. Secondly, we have enough problems of a parochial nature as it is, would it really be wise to include more ethnic groups into our federation?

Source: http://www.defence.pk/forums/strate...nion-ultimate-peacemaker-2.html#ixzz27El0lFNc

Pakistan was made for this Purpose to unite With Afghanistan and the Muslim World . Though we were unsuccessful and the Plan Failed Badly

But A union of AFPAK is inevitable it is a natural Necessity , if not now than may be a 50 years later but that generation will curse us For our Splits and stabbings . AFPAK union will form . The Question is How can we Bring India Along because India is our Natural Union As well. we were a single Country for more than 1000 Years.

 

[Kompromat]

Pakistan was made for this Purpose to unite With Afghanistan and the Muslim World . Though we were unsuccessful and the Plan Failed Badly

But A union of AFPAK is inevitable it is a natural Necessity , if not now than may be a 50 years later but that generation will curse us For our Splits and stabbings . AFPAK union will form . The Question is How can we Bring India Along because India is our Natural Union As well. we were a single Country for more than 1000 Years.

India is not our natural union, its just a geographic reality.

 

[Armstrong]

India is not our natural union, its just a geographic reality.

So is Afghanistan...except its more of a geographic nightmare ! Never accepted us from the start, have hosted militancy based out of Balochistan in the past and presently, kept on stirring up the pot called 'Pukhtoonistan' every now and then before our own Pukhtoons told them to foOk off (Bajaur anyone ?) ! So no...no Union with them ! I wish them all the best...I really do but good neighbors - Love too ! An administrative Union - Hell no !

I agree with you. Whenever you don't see me commenting, it means I agree wholeheartedly.

What people forget here is, we Pukhtoons under different treaties, already have freedom of movement on both sides of the border. We never considered our blood brothers on the other side to be someone separate from us. People first need to understand the ground realities and then comment.

It will be a win win situation for everyone!

Tell your blood brothers to stop hating us and I'd give the 'win-win' a second glance ! Till then - Afghan Pukhtoon - Doesn't get an inch of Pakistan ! Pakistani Pukhtoon - Whats mine is yours, rorras !

 

[Kompromat]

So is Afghanistan...except its more of a geographic nightmare !

Give you that, but do you think if we don't do anything about it, it will change nothing too?

Never accepted us from the start,

It made no difference, we are here and will be here till the end of times.

have hosted militancy based out of Balochistan in the past and presently,

Until, we are tolerating it and not bombing the **** out of their camps.

kept on stirring up the pot called 'Pukhtoonistan' every now and then before our own Pukhtoons told them to foOk off (Bajaur anyone ?) !

They have learned their lessons on that haven't they??

So no...no Union with them ! I wish them all the best...I really do but good neighbors - Love too ! An administrative Union - Hell no !

Sweeping our problems under the rug will not change the realities we live in, terrorism, drugs, refugees, Indian presence to name a few?

Tell your blood brothers to stop hating us and I'd give the 'win-win' a second glance ! Till then - Afghan Pukhtoon - Doesn't get an inch of Pakistan ! Pakistani Pukhtoon - Whats mine is yours, rorras !

They will get nothing or will compromise on everything. There has to be a solution don't you think ?

 

[Armstrong]

Give you that, but do you think if we don't do anything about it, it will change nothing too?



It made no difference, we are here and will be here till the end of times.



Until, we are tolerating it and not bombing the **** out of their camps.



They have learned their lessons on that haven't they??



Sweeping our problems under the rug will not change the realities we live in, terrorism, drugs, refugees, Indian presence to name a few?



They will get nothing or will compromise on everything. There has to be a solution don't you think ?

The answer to all of that lies in - Where does the Pakistani Pukhtoon stand on this issue ? As much as I dislike Afghans and Afghanistan, if the Pakistani Pukhtoon, wants to embrace them as our own I'd do it begrudgingly too ! However as of yet the few Pakistani Pukhtoons I've talked to don't want to be associated with Afghans even if they are Pukhtoons ! One bloke from Mohmand works with me and another from Sibbi (two brothers) used to study with me alongside my Bhabi (originally from Peshawar but settled in Islamabad) and my friend from the marketplace (from Bajaur) along with another Uncle (a family friend from Kohat), my mom's cousin's husband (Hindko Speaking Pathans from Mianwali) and lastly our helper at the office (Khan Sahib from Attock). Unfortunately still I've met around 3-4 Afghans and they cast a really...really bad impression on me ! They studied on scholarships offered by the Government of Pakistan and the Government of Punjab and still talked all sorts of nasty things about Pakistan !

So I really do wonder what the rest of Pakistani Pukhtoons have to say for my 20-25 people sample size is far too little !

Yup the solution, in my opinion is simple - Our Pukhtoons are our flesh and blood and no sacrifice is too great for them but the Afghans stay in Afghanistan ! Pakistan will do whatever is humanly possible in extending whatever support we can to them and we'd play our part in seeing a progressive Afghanistan but our lands, our resources and our lives are for our Pukhtoons ! Period.