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Afghan policeman shoots dead five British soldiers

Its about time statesmen in US (with the exception of few) put aside their arrogance of "we know it all" and admit the ground realities. A similar attitude is shown by some of the US members here as well.
 
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Well the escaping part reminds me of the Taliban, as they are shown riding bikes and the famous Escape from Kandahar by Mullah Omar is said to be was on a bike too.
 
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"...don't you think same would also would be used in Afghanistan too. US is using the armed drones in every theater of their war of oppression."

Drones remain a limited asset. As such, they are being used in Afghanistan, per my understanding, and that includes very occasional use as a strike weapon-but it still remains OCCASIONAL.

We can employ a variety of drones for reconnaissance and intel within Afghanistan but have only a limited number of PREDATOR and REAPER drones that can carry munitions. Virtually all are employed where our attack helicopter/USAF/NATO CAS won't be used, i.e. Pakistan.

So it's a case of employing different assets based differing needs. I anticipate drone use INCREASING in Afghanistan in a manner similar to what they are used for in Pakistan as more of these assets come on line.

The difference will be their employment in Afghanistan as a CAS asset for troops in contact. They will, I believe, have their highest value in such instances as opposed to presently in Pakistan where they are primarily a strategic asset and must operate without ground liaison.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
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"A similar attitude is shown by some of the US members here as well."

Your comment is an unsolicited irrelevancy to this thread. Unless you've something of worth to contribute, save your anti-American diatribe.

Five fine British soldiers died doing their best to help a country that's seen nothing but hell. I've read all sorts of nonsense right here but none, as usual, seem to admit that by every knowledgable unbiased source the taliban are killing afghan civilians at a rate of 2:1 compared to the FIREPOWER heavy NATO forces.

Given that we do have more firepower, that means there's a concerted effort by the taliban to TERRORIZE these innocents through TARGETED attacks. Do you understand what that means? It means intentionally killing civilians.

Not once, despite the claims of Qsaark and others here, has UNAMA nor HRW found cause to accuse NATO of intentionally trying to kill civilian afghans. Never. When horrific mistakes happen, and they do, we've been genuinely remorseful and actually try to limit them at every turn.

Those are facts that you may reference from UNAMA and HUMAN RIGHTS WATCH if you desire though I doubt you do. You strike me, like many here, who prefer to indulge myths to the bald-faced truth.

NATO has yet to, further, use civilians as HUMAN SHIELDS. Not so the taliban. If cornered by NATO, it's the FIRST thing the taliban do. The taliban have displayed no conpunction about endangering the lives of civilians in open combat.

Chew on those "ground realities" until they choke you, you pompous and self righteous POS.

Thanks.:usflag:
 
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Five fine British soldiers died

who says they are "fine"?

most of these guys are drop outs in british society and end up in the army because they could not fill out the tesco application form so are left with no choice, hardly poetic stuff, lets stick to the reality here.

they also signed on the dotted line with nobody forcing them and knowing the risks, in effect they offered themselves as collateral and cannon fodder for any theatre of war they are sent to, that they end up dying is hardly a big deal, they were prepared to die and they died, presumably they were happy to do so since they agreed to it.


lets mourn the fact that these guys had nothing better to do in the society that came from, that to me is the only reason to be sad for them.
 
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who says they are "fine"?

most of these guys are drop outs in british society and end up in the army because they could not fill out the tesco application form so are left with no choice, hardly poetic stuff, lets stick to the reality here.

they also signed on the dotted line with nobody forcing them and knowing the risks, in effect they offered themselves as collateral and cannon fodder for any theatre of war they are sent to, that they end up dying is hardly a big deal, they were prepared to die and they died, presumably they were happy to do so since they agreed to it.


lets mourn the fact that these guys had nothing better to do in the society that came from, that to me is the only reason to be sad for them.
Same is also true for the American soldiers. The poor souls are lured into on the promises of a college education and what not IF they came back. Many only come back in coffins, and many more psychologically crippled.

As far as Taliban killing more innocent civilians is concerned, this is the height of the twisting of the facts by the occupation forces and their sympathizers at best. How much the occupation forces are successful in winning the hearts and the minds of the Afghan is more than obvious. After the eight long years of ‘friendly’ occupation, there are no signs of reduction of hostilities towards the occupation forces; in fact, the resistance is on the rise. If the occupation forces are working so selflessly and helping the Afghans as being claimed here, and if the Afghan civilians are being killed by the alleged Taliban, why the Afghans are not supporting the occupation forces? Why they don’t help the occupation forces to eradicate the Taliban? Instead they are helping the Taliban to target the occupation forces. If these simple facts can not be seen, than we can only empathize on the mental state of some of those who are constantly denying and deliberately spreading the disinformation here.
 
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Its about time statesmen in US (with the exception of few) put aside their arrogance of "we know it all" and admit the ground realities. A similar attitude is shown by some of the US members here as well.

Do you think america is losing much? they are only losing some soldiers and thats it, maybe 1000, 2000 or abit more, is that much to ask from a nation of over 250 000 000 with huge army? the real loser is afghan people, not even the taliban. it is my country which is been being F.U.C.K.E.D up big time for the last 30 years, it is our children and people are getting killed everyday by everybody in large numbers and nobody elses', first it was the russians, then the corrupt mujahideen and now taliban and america, if the taliban consider thmeselves sons of that country(which i believe they are not), they would stop fighting and starting rebuilding their country.
 
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if the taliban consider thmeselves sons of that country(which i believe they are not), they would stop fighting and starting rebuilding their country
Indeed, only the Northern Alliance, the supporters of the corrupt Karzai & Co, the occupation forces-backed War and Drug Lords and mercenary Afghan National Army are the sons of the country. Those who are selflessly fighting against the occupation and oppression are not patriotic. Well said my brother.
 
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Same is also true for the American soldiers. The poor souls are lured into on the promises of a college education and what not IF they came back. Many only come back in coffins, and many more psychologically crippled.


exactly, these kids, nutters, misfits and those left behind fall for the marketing speil and come back crippled in one way or another, funny thing is they always fall for it!!!


this reminds me of a pat buchanan quote


. But, if it comes to war, it will not be the 'civilized world' humping up that bloody road to Baghdad; it will be American kids with names like McAllister, Murphy, Gonzales and Leroy Brown.



and its exactly these guys dying
 
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Indeed, only the Northern Alliance, the supporters of the corrupt Karzai & Co, the occupation forces-backed War and Drug Lords and mercenary Afghan National Army are the sons of the country. Those who are selflessly fighting against the occupation and oppression are not patriotic. Well said my brother.


it is very easy to talk from behind the screen of computer without losing member and members of family and having the country completely destroyed, feeling the pain of the war first hand is something and see it on the news is another. tell me when did I support Karzai or any other group? I dont need to, you are talking about the drug, that is brilliant, because the taliban are the biggest drug dealers in afghansitan. if they really care about afghanistan they need to stop killing its people, why dont they join the political process and if they are right people will back them heavily.
 
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"Do you think america is losing much? they are only losing some soldiers and thats it..."

icasualties.org report 839 American servicemen killed in Afghanistan since Nov. 25, 2001. About 104 per year.

U.S. Service Personnel Killed In Afghanistan-Icasualties.org

Compare that to 50,000 plus killed in South Vietnam. Each a tragedy but this is hardly a blood bath.

As for the Afghans, the war to date is equally tragic but not remotely close to the estimated 200-300,000 killed during the afghan civil war between 1991-1996 or the estimated 900,000-3,000,000 killed during the Afghan-Soviet War.

9,000-32,000 direct and indirect deaths of civilians seems the best estimate of those who've died since 9/11/01. In the last year, UNAMA reports nearly 1500 afghan dead between Jan. 1-Aug. 31 2009, of which UNAMA attributes 1020 as killed by the taliban and other anti-government forces.

Civilian Casualties Of War In Afghanistan 2001-Present-Wikipedia

The referencing of the above link is solid and worth reviewing for yearly breakdowns and the sources used for each. Prof. Mark W. Herold of the Univ. of New Hampshire has compiled most of this data together from a variety of sources.
 
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World record opium cultivation was achieved in 1999 under taliban rule per UNODC data. I doubt most here would care to admit such although it's long been available.

Today, it's been the nether reaches of heretofore undisturbed southern HELMAND where most of the opium production has occurred.

Who's been there in central and southern Helmand undisturbed since 2001 last year? The taliban, of course. Has cultivation begun to drop in Helmand since the British began receiving help from additional troops?

Yes. Two years in a role.

The taliban use opium to fuel their slaughter. That they have corrupt assistance doesn't change their deep, deep involvement in peddling poison themselves.

So much for fighting oppressors while poisoning minds and bodies of muslims in Pakistan and Iran among countless other souls of all ilks, shapes, colors, and religions globally, eh?
 
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Five gun attack dead named by MoD

The five British soldiers killed in an attack by an Afghan police officer have been named by the Ministry of Defence.

They were Warrant Officer Darren Chant, Sgt Matthew Telford, Guardsman James Major, Acting Cpl Steven Boote and Cpl Nicholas Webster-Smith.

A "rogue" Afghan policeman has been blamed by the UK military, but PM Gordon Brown has said the Taliban could have infiltrated the police.

The dead soldiers had been mentoring Afghan police in Helmand province.

WO1 Chant, Sgt Telford and Guardsman Major were from the Grenadier Guards, while Acting Cpl Boote and Cpl Webster-Smith were from the Royal Military Police.

They had been working and living in a compound at a national police checkpoint in the Nad Ali district for the last two weeks.

Six British servicemen and two Afghan National Police (ANP) officers were also injured in Tuesday's attack.

Taliban link probed

"While we are assembling evidence, the Taliban have claimed responsibility for this incident," Mr Brown told MPs in the Commons on Wednesday.

"It may be that the Taliban have used an Afghan police member or they have infiltrated the Afghan police force and that is what we've got to look at," he said.



Sgt Matthew Telford joined the Army when he was 16
However, BBC Kabul correspondent Ian Pannell later said the Taliban had not admitted carrying out the attack.

Mr Brown said training of Afghan police remained an "essential element" of the strategy in Afghanistan and would not be stopped because it was "what the Taliban fears most".

"We will have to increase the number of police but it's clear we will have to increase the quality of police as well," he told the Commons.

"I would not want to draw conclusions about all the Afghan police from one single incident," he added.

William Ferrand, the uncle of Sgt Telford, said his nephew had "absolutely loved" his job training Afghan forces.

He added: "Everybody knows what a wonderful lad he was. It has devastated all of us."

Sgt Telford, of Grimsby, leaves a wife, Kerry, and two sons aged nine and four.

Paul Thundercliffe taught Guardsman Major at the Lindsey School in Cleethorpes, Lincolnshire.

"He had a cheeky smile and he always wanted to make you understand where he was coming from," he told the BBC.

"He was very forthright and as he went through the school he just wanted to get better and better at everything that he did."

Opened fire

A total of 92 UK servicemen have now been killed this year, the highest annual figure since the Falklands War in 1982.

A UK military spokesman said: "One individual Afghan National Policeman, possibly in conjunction with another, went rogue.


ANALYSIS

Caroline Wyatt,
BBC defence correspondent


Training the Afghan police as well as the Afghan army is key to Nato's plans in Afghanistan, so they can ultimately take over security across the country, allowing British and American forces and their allies to gradually leave.
However, recruiting and training the police and ensuring their loyalty to the Afghan government has long been extremely difficult. In Helmand especially, the police are proving less reliable - as well as more corrupt - than the Afghan Army.

The Afghan police are relatively badly paid - earning rather less than a Taliban fighter - and are said to earn extra cash from taking bribes from ordinary Afghans at official or often unofficial checkpoints.



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"His motives and whereabouts are unknown at this time. Every effort is now being put into hunting down those responsible for this attack."

The officer was on the roof of the checkpoint when he opened fire on the soldiers, police in Helmand said.

Ian Pannell said sources had indicated the attacker was a police officer called Gulbuddin who had fled the scene after the shooting.

It appears he could have been involved in a dispute with his commander, but tribal sources have pointed to a link with the Taliban, our correspondent said.

Lt Col David Wakefield, spokesman for Task Force Helmand, said the attack had not been a result of any breakdown or fight between British and Afghan forces.

The prime minister said the latest deaths were a "terrible loss".

He said: "My thoughts, condolences and sympathies go to their families, loved ones and colleagues. I know that the whole country too will mourn their loss."

Tory leader David Cameron said: "I pay tribute, as will the whole country, to their professionalism and their courage, and send my condolences to their families and their friends."

Worst incident

Gen Stanley McChrystal, commander of the International Security Assistance Force, said he had spoken to the Afghan Minister of Interior, Hanif Atmar, who shared his regret for the incident.

"He gave me his assurance that this incident will be fully and transparently investigated," he said.

"We will not let this event deter our resolve to build a partnership with the Afghan National Security Forces to provide for Afghanistan's future."

A former commander of British forces in Afghanistan, Col Richard Kemp, said the shootings were a very worrying development.

He said: "It will undermine trust, certainly in the short term, until we establish exactly what happened. And it wouldn't at all surprise me now if there aren't a lot of soldiers, British soldiers in Afghanistan, with their fingers very firmly on the trigger when they're around Afghan police and military."

The British Military Police have launched an investigation. The local ANP chief and the Afghan national director of security have also begun investigating at the scene.

There were similar incidents involving the deaths of two US personnel last month and two more in 2008.

The British casualties were evacuated to the field hospital at Camp Bastion in Helmand by medical emergency response teams using Chinook and US Black Hawk helicopters.

The deaths take the number of UK troops killed in Afghanistan since 2001 to 229.

This is the worst single incident in Helmand since 10 July, when five soldiers from 2 Rifles were killed by bombs near the town of Sangin.

BBC
 
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