Afghan policeman shoots dead five British soldiers

[Ahmad]

The US has levelled the score by killing Afghan army and Policemen yesterday in an airstrik

i wonder xyz if you have raised any voice over this or not

it is the first time i have heard of this, i need to know more before commenting on this.

 

[Spring Onion]

it is the first time i have heard of this, i need to know more before commenting on this.

If you have heard it for the first time then i am sure you are not an Afghan neither from Afghanistan.

 

[Ahmad]

dear jana, what do you think about jihad in pakistan? i posted something earlier in this thread to another friend.

 

[Ahmad]

If you have heard it for the first time then i am sure you are not an Afghan neither from Afghanistan.

dont be silly and make silly comments. i am sure there are alot of news and events that you are not aware of them but i cant claim you are not pakistani, can i?

 

[Spring Onion]

dont be silly and make silly comments. i am sure there are alot of news and events that you are not aware of them but i cant claim you are not pakistani, can i?

I tell you this is not the first friendly fire by invaders in Afghanistan and those from Afghanistan and the real Afghans no matter wherever they are they know it.

Only a non-Afghan with no deep knowledge would be oblivouse of what is going on in his or her country.

On the other hand your question about Jehad if you go by Islamic rules no individual can delcare it even on the other country. But again this can be debated in details in a separare thread.

 

[Ahmad]

State of Afghani women under NATO/ISAF + Karzai & Co

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Afghanistan: Woman's Rights 2009. 1Of 3[/url]
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Afghanistan: Woman's Rights 2009. 2 Of 3[/url]
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Afghanistan: Woman's Rights 2009. 3 Of 3[/url]

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A white lie and nothing more than this. Women have been denied education, health care, and the right to work….How many women were serving before the Taliban? Has someone any list of those women to prove that all that happened only after Taliban came into power?

Many of the ordinary women were serving in different fields just like men, they were busy delivering health care, being teachers, working in kindergaten and nurseries, and in every office including the Army and police. if you insist i can give you a list of prominent women in different eras other than the taliban time.


They must cover themselves completely when in public…..Really? So before Taliban, were they roaming around in sleeveless blouse and skirts? Any photo evidence of the liberalism of Afghan women before Taliban took over the power?

Yes, women used to wear skirt, blouse etc and also there were women with Burkas, check the videos you have posted i think there are some picutres which confirms this, these types of cloths were worn by ordinary women. if i find anything photographic evidence i will post them here. the difference was that in that time nobody force women to wear skirt or burka, they had a choice.


Minorities have been brutally repressed…Ahan? What is the population of non-Muslims in Afghanistan? Were they not the first to leave Afghanistan soon after the war broke out in late 70s early 80s?

they massacared shias and all those people who were not happy with their rule.


Even singing and dancing in public are forbidden…Wow, when was it allowed before that? How many cinema, or nightclubs, existed in war-torn pre-Taliban Afghanistan?


there were/are many many cinemas in afghanistan for many decades, live concerts and events attracted many people. here are the name of some cinemas: Bakhtar, Aryana, Maiwand, Farokhi, Behzad, Pamir, Aryana, Iqbal, Baharistan etc.


The Taliban's brand of extreme Islam had no historical roots in Afghanistan….Bull, Afghans have only followed their stone-age culture and that is it. Muslim or not, they have lived the way they are living now, they lived the same way during Soviet occupation, and before Soviets during Shah’s time, and even before him.


In afghanistan people of different parts have different ways of life, it is especially different between the cities and villages. it is very true that the taliban type islam was not there in afghanistan in the shape of a gov. in villages women used to wear burkas since long time and in cities women were completely different. in both of these cases women were never forced by the gov to abondan their burka or skirt. they had all a choice.


Afghan refugee camps scattered all over Pakistan, in Iran, and other neighboring countries. You will not find a woman without covering herself properly, over properly I would say. You’ll not see these women working , and you would not find their husbands allowing them to see a male Doctor even in case of emergency. And these Afghans are not Taliban, but ordinary Afghans, Pashtoon, Uzbek, Tajik, Hazara etc. I have seen these folks in Quetta between 1970 and 1997 (when I left) and I am telling these things with full confidence. Try to photograph their women, and either you are a dead man, or you’d have to pay a heavy fine for the ‘offense’.

you are right in terms of the refugee camps, but if you go to iranian cities and peshawar/islamabad cities you will see a completely different picture from those camps.


Watch the women on the street. This is real Afghanistan, and it has always been like this. Why these women are covering themselves up like this? Taliban are long gone at least in Kabul, aren't they? Plus the NATO/ISAF and Karzai's muggers are also there to protect them; so why are they still covering themselves up from head to toe? Forget about big things, even the life in Kabul is not changed in past eight or so years? Time for many people to smell coffee.

Perhaps it is not their wish to be like that, the taliban brutality still pressurize their minds and scare them to change their cloths, dont you see the taliban attacks everywhere? how can they possibly trust the taliban dont hit them. for your information, a number of female TV presenters have been shot dead in recent years because they were not wearing cloths according to the taliban rules and worst of all they were working in a TV station. the videos you have posted( i think the first one) shows how people are still scared of the taliban especially that woman in Herat that she has imprisoned her kids at home. at least the present gov no matter how corrupt, havent denied them education and work and havent forced them to wear this or that. there are many many women who have lost their male members of their families and are the sole breadwiner, they taliban banned them from work and some of them turned to prostituion out of hunger.

 

[Ahmad]

I tell you this is not the first friendly fire by invaders in Afghanistan and those from Afghanistan and the real Afghans no matter wherever they are they know it.

Only a non-Afghan with no deep knowledge would be oblivouse of what is going on in his or her country.

On the other hand your question about Jehad if you go by Islamic rules no individual can delcare it even on the other country. But again this can be debated in details in a separare thread.

i think it said the investigation is ongoing and they didnt confirm the friendly fire, this friendly fire have happened before killing the british and other soldiers.

 

[sherdil76]

I can support my claim with evidence, please provide but can you support your claim with an evidence that during the taliban there was peace? no if i had any didnot asked you provide some it was not any more peaceful than it is now, on top of that the ordinary people were even hungrier than they are today. they managed the state without help? funny, they had all the military support and their fighters payrol on pakistan, and saudis were also helping themLoL please provide proofs, stop watchin Zee News and know the ground realities before claiming anything, and after all they didnt need any support to run the country LOL, people didnt get paid, women employees were all at home, it was only the NGOs helping people in that time mate I worked for USAID and exactly know how and why they help people in areas ruined by their own armies , I remember that there was a landslide (not sure about the right word for it) in the highway between east of the country and kabul, the road was blocked, and a talib was standing with his cable by the stopped cars and was telling to the people he was talking to and sarcastically referring to the UN and said: " where is the UN guys to clear these blockage? they can criticize us but cant do anything about the road blockage." you can see the mentality of the taliban and their sense of responsibility towards their people and country? this was only a personal experience, but their real face from top to bottom was not any different from this story not interested in stories rather evidences based on facts would be better to support your claims. yes, corruption is high in the country at the moment, and i know that karzai's brother is alleged to be drug dealer. but do you know that the corruption and drug dealing was equally high during the taliban rule? as i said I dont know... provide evidences please you wouldnt be able to get a passport or have your home's document's from the council without paying bribe or know a member of the taliban to help you?

and finally please note that i never said neither say that Talibans were angels but surely they dare to say and stand against wrong and are much better than people in politics of Pakistan and Afghanistan who are just touts of west and have their own personal preferences rather act what majority expect

 

[gambit]

The West looted and destroyed Iraq? What universe are you in? Who burned Kuwait's oil wells? What 'resources' does Iraq have other than oil? What was looted from Iraq? How much? Where to? By whom, other than the convenient generic 'the west'? People like you are like robots and parrots who can only recite but not research.

As for al-Qaeda and the demands from the same, how would YOU like it if someone from another city start making demands from you about your city? What happened to your mayor and other local leaders? Who are you going to place your trust on what is best for your city? Your mayor and your city council or that other guy living elsewhere? If you demand that we accept al-Qaeda's demands as legitimate concerns regarding the Israeli-Palestinians conflict, then why not the American Pat Robertson and his Christian followers? Does Robertson and his crew need to do any bombings to earn your respect for their demands?

The moment we give in to any non-state actors, people like YOU will be in immediate danger because now your government will be obligated to respond to any non-state actors who does not share your interests, not responsible for your security and economic condition, and has a selfish agenda. You really did not think this through, did you?

you seems confused as your first two paras contradicting each other, if not then why America invaded Iraq? but no worries that common now a days coz nobody bother to know the reasons/causes of any problem but want to be first to give solution advice.

There is no 'confusion' on my part. More like a lack of understanding from you.

The issue is not about the US/Iraq situation but about the legal status of non-state actors like al-Qaeda. If we go back to the original example I presented and introduce the mayor and city council from the other city then the fallacy of your argument, vis-a-vis al-Qaeda, is even more apparent. Now you have officials from another city that criticizes how your city is being managed, so whose opinions will have more credibility, people who are actually responsible for managing a community, or someone who lives in his own messy house, does not have a steady job, and is on the run from debt collectors?

Likewise, al-Qaeda does not manage any country, is on the run from several governments, and relies upon charities of others to survive. The US, on the other hand, is a powerful member of the UN, our internal affairs are not perfect but there is no doubt we are an established society that can managed ourselves quite well. As far as the Israelis-Palestinians conflict goes, not just US, but everyone else would rather have al-Qaeda go away, even though many shares some opinions as that of al-Qaeda. Why? Because they know the dangers of lending moral legitimacy and legal status to non-state actors like al-Qaeda that could later place their countries in danger.

well I mentioned about looting Iraq's wealth and resources, and do you really know what heppend to Iraq's gold reserves and their national treasure? may be those loaded ships went missing near Bermuda

Do not avoid the question through vague and open ended statements. Support your allegation that the US 'looted' Iraq's national treasures with reasonably credible evidences.

what kinda actors are Blackwater and other such Mercenery organisations? are they Non-State or State owned??

They are non-state actors. Their country of origins are irrelevant. They are created by private individuals, not governments. They may be hired by governments, but that does not mean they can speak for those governments or a community, unlike Osama bin Laden and al-Qaeda who claimed to speak for all muslims and make various demands. This is a red herring argument. You might want to look up what a 'red herring' mean in a debate.