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‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

Which secular person stated that rubbish for your satisfaction so that you could target him personally? Who made you the one who decides who is with Islam or not. Entire Mu'tazili school of thought in Islam is actually secularism. So there is no reason secularism and religion are incompatible. If you don't believe me look at the 50 million muslims living in Europe and tell me whether the secular system has made them so-called "kuffar" or not.
Sir secularism Islam are totally incompatible Sir can't stand with each other in Islam either you are with Islam or you are with kufr sir their is no grey area Sir Sir Islam is clear if you bother to read it and without any bias
 
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Sir separation of mosque and state is kufr in Islam in Islam they can't be separated Sir if they are than government is kufr complete kufr and Muslims don't have to follow their laws Sir I know definition of secularism you gave and that is against Quran and Sunnah

Please dont call me sir, I dont have any more knowledge than you. If separation is not possible, then you deserve to have constant struggle between religions and sects in your country.

If it is not possible in Islam, then change islam, reform it. Islam should serve you, not other way around.

Secularism is not atheism, but if it was, why would you kill an atheist?
 
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Sir they ran state affairs according to laws of Islam and that is all the 4 caliphs said to people until we decide according to Quran and Sunnah listen to us if we don't you are free and in one case HAZRAT UMAR RA asked people if I don't decide according to Quran and Sunnah what will you do one man stood and took out his sword and said we will do this HAZRAT UMAR RA appreciated that man and thanked ALLAH and said if I will go astray my people will force me to straight path

Don't wanna go into detail - Just take one example, does your blasphemy law comply with the words of God.

006:108 - Revile not ye those whom they call upon besides Allah, lest they out of spite revile Allah in their ignorance. Thus have We made alluring to each people its own doings. In the end will they return to their Lord, and We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did.

If yes than show me how many Muslims have got punishment for disrespecting & bad mouthing beliefs of non-muslims? And when God says that "We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did." than who are you to decide the faith of anybody? Is there something i missed in Quran where God has delegated his authority of this decision to mullahs?
 
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No Sir you can't have Islam Sir Islam is the whole system including how governments should be run how should we run economy what kind of trade we can have and social life and other things

But it should be only for Muslims, why you want it to be imposed on Non-Muslims when they don't want it. That's why separation of state with religion is needed.
 
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True. In Pakistan secularism is not entertained much. After all it is an Islamic Republic. So Islam is needed for votes.

True. In Pakistan secularism is not entertained much. After all it is an Islamic Republic. So Islam is needed for votes.
 
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True. In Pakistan secularism is not entertained much. After all it is an Islamic Republic. So Islam is needed for votes.

Any concept can be supported if a political party is keen to promote it. There isn't one secular party in Pakistan yet neither is there a nationalist one. I wished to host one... but you are right about the pressures. People warned me secularist ideology is only in its nascent state in Pakistan.

The issue is secularism being equated to Anti-Islam. It has been done since the 1980's. Religion and secularism are not incompatable concepts as Zarvan promotes. Do not believe Zarvan as he is a loud voice but is in no way our representative. Perhaps the same can be said about me as a lot of people do not support secularism either but that does not mean we should not try to explain to people its benefits and superiority to the traditional system.
 
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Any concept can be supported if a political party is keen to promote it. There isn't one secular party in Pakistan yet neither is there a nationalist one. I wished to host one... but you are right about the pressures. People warned me secularist ideology is only in its nascent state in Pakistan.

The issue is secularism being equated to Anti-Islam. It has been done since the 1980's. Religion and secularism are not incompatable concepts as Zarvan promotes. Do not believe Zarvan as he is a loud voice but is in no way our representative. Perhaps the same can be said about me as a lot of people do not support secularism either but that does not mean we should not try to explain to people its benefits and superiority to the traditional system.


In reality secularism is against Pakistan's national identity which is based on anti-Hinduism. Most of you fear that if you go secular, you will lose non-India identity you are struggling to show. While Ziaul Haq's rule added more intolerance in your society.
 
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Now looking at this article, maybe its a bit far off that anyone who supports secularism is in danger of being killed since I am an advocate of this theory and have never felt threatened in Pakistan. Anyone who opposes US policy in this region is more likely to be killed or disappear as I personally know due to the files I have been looking at of disappearances in Pakistan which have later turned up in US prisons.

The people who murder others for being secular minded are usually terrorists and TTP militants. However if we look into their claim of Malala and Bilour being secularists both have never expressed such a thing but only the will to fight off terrorists. However Marvi sirmid was attacked by gunmen near her house and she is a known secularist. There are a number of other cases as well.

Usually in any conflict on terror secularists, minorities and members of another religion are targeted specifically. We can take the boko haram case which has been attacking churches and Christians left and right in Nigeria. A little bit of mishandling and the fire explodes into an inferno just like in Pakistan.
 
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However yes there is a lingering fear that they may strike because a person is a secularist and this fear exists even among people like me... and I am openly against the Mullahs. Ironically experiences in Canada had an effect on turning me against the Mullah even though the primary reason for the abuse a lot of organizations and movements suffered was because they were primarily Muslim-even if a lot of members supported secular ideology. I thought perhaps that wouldn't have happened had the intolerance not been so prevalent. Then I see the issues in Pakistan and the killing committed in the name of religion and people to justify it like Zarvan. It leaves a bitterness with the average Mullah for his failure in this regard (to counter the militants narrative)

So since my dislike for these groups appears everywhere and in almost every talk I may be targeted. But right now I am more likely to be targeted in other ways by our champion allies who rule us like a colony because I vociferously oppose their policy. :D

The issue is covered in this article... expressing our frustration on how both terrorists and Americans target us Pakistanis:

US & Al Qaeda: For the Afghan & Pakistani 2 sides of the same coin

I am not sharing it here because it deviates from topic. But do rate and comment. So those are my views on the topic... this time broken down in a few posts rather one massive one.
 
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Sir I didn't said that I said you can't be complete secular without being an atheist Sir and by the way even if it is not Athiesm or other stuff still its kufr sir because in Islam either you are with law of ALLAH and his RASOOL SAW or you are with law of kufr

First of all understand what is secularism -- then read below

The idea of secularism in Islam means favoring a modern secular democracy with separation of mosque and state, as opposed to Islam as a political movement. Secularism in the Muslim countries refers to the ideology of promoting the secular as opposed to the religion. It is often used to describe the separation of civil/government matters from religious theocracy. Secularism is often condemned by Muslims who do not feel that religious values should be removed from the public sphere, though "Muslim theologians have long distinguished between matters of din [religion] and dawlah [state]."[1] Secular states had existed in the Muslim world since the Middle Ages.[2] The quest for Secularism has inspired some Muslim scholars who argue that secular government is the best way to observe sharia; "enforcing [sharia] through coercive power of the state negates its religious nature, because Muslims would be observing the law of the state and not freely performing their religious obligation as Muslims," says Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, a professor of law at Emory University and author of a book on the future of sharia. A majority of Muslim countries have a dual system in which the government is secular but Muslims can choose to bring familial and financial disputes to sharia courts. The exact jurisdiction of these courts varies from country to country, but usually includes marriage, divorce, inheritance, and guardianship.[3] However, secularism has acquired negative connotations in some Middle Eastern countries and is often criticized as being linked to anti-religion and colonial intervention.
 
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Don't wanna go into detail - Just take one example, does your blasphemy law comply with the words of God.



If yes than show me how many Muslims have got punishment for disrespecting & bad mouthing beliefs of non-muslims? And when God says that "We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did." than who are you to decide the faith of anybody? Is there something i missed in Quran where God has delegated his authority of this decision to mullahs?

Yes Sir it does complete that is why around 10 people were killed for doing this act in time of HAZRAT MUHAMMAD SAW on his orders in Madinah Sir and also some places else Sir Quran and Sunnah has own complete laws Sir

Don't wanna go into detail - Just take one example, does your blasphemy law comply with the words of God.



If yes than show me how many Muslims have got punishment for disrespecting & bad mouthing beliefs of non-muslims? And when God says that "We shall then tell them the truth of all that they did." than who are you to decide the faith of anybody? Is there something i missed in Quran where God has delegated his authority of this decision to mullahs?
Sir they should get punishment and government should make laws for that Sir we are to decide Quran don't have only one ayat Sir ALLAH has told the laws in Quran and Sunnah and we have to implement them other wise their will be chaos if you want to come up with **** so Mr if some one harms you family than don't ask for his punishment too let ALLAH decide

First of all understand what is secularism -- then read below

The idea of secularism in Islam means favoring a modern secular democracy with separation of mosque and state, as opposed to Islam as a political movement. Secularism in the Muslim countries refers to the ideology of promoting the secular as opposed to the religion. It is often used to describe the separation of civil/government matters from religious theocracy. Secularism is often condemned by Muslims who do not feel that religious values should be removed from the public sphere, though "Muslim theologians have long distinguished between matters of din [religion] and dawlah [state]."[1] Secular states had existed in the Muslim world since the Middle Ages.[2] The quest for Secularism has inspired some Muslim scholars who argue that secular government is the best way to observe sharia; "enforcing [sharia] through coercive power of the state negates its religious nature, because Muslims would be observing the law of the state and not freely performing their religious obligation as Muslims," says Abdullahi Ahmed An-Na'im, a professor of law at Emory University and author of a book on the future of sharia. A majority of Muslim countries have a dual system in which the government is secular but Muslims can choose to bring familial and financial disputes to sharia courts. The exact jurisdiction of these courts varies from country to country, but usually includes marriage, divorce, inheritance, and guardianship.[3] However, secularism has acquired negative connotations in some Middle Eastern countries and is often criticized as being linked to anti-religion and colonial intervention.
Sir as Muslims we can have only one system the system of Islam and in Islam governance is not separated from Islam Sir not at all
 
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I've been called everything from a Murtad to a Communist & the occasional Liberal Fascist ! :blink:

Why do they always miss me out whenever they feel like popping a bullet in one of us...I feel so left alone ! :cray:
 
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