‘Admitting you are a secularist can get you killed in Pakistan’

[Zarvan]

This kind of extremist mentality is what creates terrorism and speaking as of today much of the Islamic world is in knee deep Sh!t very similar to dark ages europe - no wonder we are going backwards!

This is a fundamental fault like with all Islamist. A black and white mentality of either you are with us or against us.

The effective religion of 2/3rd of world population is atheism and this is the hard truth!

Sir sorry for first 2/3 is not atheist still majority vast majority believes in GOD Sir still Islam is growing and Islam never said all will accept the truth accepting truth and leaving evils is not an easy thing Sir first know what Islam have said before talking crap again and again Sir and in yes either you are with Islam or you are with kufr their is no grey area

 

[Dubious]

Dear Zarvan

Caliphate always lead to dynastys - not rule of the poeple as expected think about the last caliphates they were ruled by some families

And as per the caliphate it should be democratic


Sunni Islam stipulates that the head of state, the caliph, should be elected by Shura – elected by Muslims or their representatives.[2] Followers of Shia Islam believe the caliph should be an imam chosen by God from the Ahl al-Bayt (Muhammad's purified progeny). From the end of the Rashidun period until 1924, caliphates, sometimes two at a single time, real and illusory, were ruled by dynasties. The first dynasty was the Umayyad. This was followed by the Abbasid, the Fatimid (not recognized by Muslims outside the Fatimid domain), and finally the Ottoman Dynasty.

Yup you got that right!

They were more duniyawi than religious!

It started off fine with the Rashidin khalifs but after that it was more about power...In the middle they acknowledged education and that period only was the golden age! the rest was abuse of power and authority!

It was supposed to be a democracy! In fact the 1st set of democracy before the west even knew what democracy was! But it went down it crap because of lack of trust hence the leadership became "throne" passed from father to son....

 

[Zarvan]

Dear Zarvan

Caliphate always lead to dynastys - not rule of the poeple as expected think about the last caliphates they were ruled by some families

And as per the caliphate it should be democratic


Sunni Islam stipulates that the head of state, the caliph, should be elected by Shura – elected by Muslims or their representatives.[2] Followers of Shia Islam believe the caliph should be an imam chosen by God from the Ahl al-Bayt (Muhammad's purified progeny). From the end of the Rashidun period until 1924, caliphates, sometimes two at a single time, real and illusory, were ruled by dynasties. The first dynasty was the Umayyad. This was followed by the Abbasid, the Fatimid (not recognized by Muslims outside the Fatimid domain), and finally the Ottoman Dynasty.

Sir yes but systems can be formed we will have to go towards that ultimately but for start we will have to form European union like thing and make it stronger by passage of time

 

[Dubious]

Sir yes but systems can be formed we will have to go towards that ultimately but for start we will have to form European union like thing and make it stronger by passage of time

Nope @Zarvan we need to start from scratch unite Muslims! THAT alone can only make anything move on!

 

[Zarvan]

Nope @Zarvan we need to start from scratch unite Muslims! THAT alone can only make anything move on!

Sir through this we can unite Muslims by forming European Union kind of thing and ending visa and making trade and business easier with each other and forming joint Military force we can bring Muslims lot closer

 

[Indrajith]

Dear Zarvan,

Theoryand practice is different , every one is looking for power and do you think any ruler, or body or organization of Islam can find a unanimous leader

The best option now is secularism - where the religion & politics are kept aside , if people feel they want the politicians to follow the religious law then let them do it - but it should not be forced on others - and do not allow every tom and harry to become a religious leader and to issue fatwas as he feels

The best method you can see is India , where every religion has their own freedom to practice , but for others a common law

Yes , Indian laws are also have its own problems , but are better

 

[Zarvan]

Dear Zarvan,

Theoryand practice is different , every one is looking for power and do you think any ruler, or body or organization of Islam can find a unanimous leader

The best option now is secularism - where the religion & politics are kept aside , if people feel they want the politicians to follow the religious law then let them do it - but it should not be forced on others - and do not allow every tom and harry to become a religious leader and to issue fatwas as he feels

The best method you can see is India , where every religion has their own freedom to practice , but for others a common law

Yes , Indian laws are also have its own problems , but are better

Sir I just said start with forming a Euorpean union kind of thing and that Khalifah thing is possible what problem of some people is they are to obsessed with master USA that even if they abuse their family their parents their children they feel proud that is the problem of Most secular liberal jerks in Muslim world at least and Sir for Muslims their is only one option Islam secularism is kufr and we are Muslims not kafirs

 

[Dubious]

Sir through this we can unite Muslims by forming European Union kind of thing and ending visa and making trade and business easier with each other and forming joint Military force we can bring Muslims lot closer

THIS European Union kind of thing can only be formed when a Sidhi doesnt call a Punjabi an outsider or a Punjabi does not go around hating a Pathan and so on....

THIS European Union kind of thing CAN only be possible when Shia and Sunni can live together for more than 1 mth!

THIS European Union kind of thing can only be possible when people stop misusing Islam or hiding under its name after doing some crime

THIS European Union kind of thing is only possible from unity! WE ABSOLUTELY LACK IT...THAT is where we need to START working from!

 

[Zarvan]

THIS European Union kind of thing can only be formed when a Sidhi doesnt call a Punjabi an outsider or a Punjabi does not go around hating a Pathan and so on....

THIS European Union kind of thing CAN only be possible when Shia and Sunni can live together for more than 1 mth!

THIS European Union kind of thing can only be possible when people stop misusing Islam or hiding under its name after doing some crime

THIS European Union kind of thing is only possible from unity! WE ABSOLUTELY LACK IT...THAT is where we need to START working from!

Sir these things even exist in countries which are part of European Union sir and and if we start this process you will see we will find a lot more support than Euorpean Union we need to take a start and a stand and work to achieve that goal Sir vast Majority is sunni at least they can form their own union Sir than will more around 50 above countries

 

[Dubious]

I do not believe in secularism! When you take away faith from children we have idiots telling us it is ok to do this and that and sooner or later it will be ok to kill people because who cares....

Religion puts some boundary as to where the limit should be...ALL I SAY some form of religion has become necessary or else we get serial killers and what not trying to justify their crimes and then we also get a system where you can negotiate your release or immunity by giving some information to authorities.

It also begets rotten children who lack respect for elders and throw them in old people's home which is easier than spending 2 mins of the xbox time and taking care of their elders

It also begets people trying to justify homosexuality, bribery, corruption, back biting loss of conscience and a whole list to follow....

It also begets fear of religion like in France...where trying to be religious will impose you a fine because they want everyone to be equal? Well, when a set of identical twins are only as equal as their DNA but rest is all subjective to the environment then how do you expect diverse set of people to be equal?

Secularism is not a solution

 

[Sugarcane]

Fact: Religion was created by man not god. so to live under a theocracy or a non secular institution is to not live under god but to live under the rules created by man thousands of years ago.

So, the "Secularism" is created by God?

 

[somebozo]

Sir these things even exist in countries which are part of European Union sir and and if we start this process you will see we will find a lot more support than Euorpean Union we need to take a start and a stand and work to achieve that goal Sir vast Majority is sunni at least they can form their own union Sir than will more around 50 above countries

your arab masters will sure dislike any islamic union which does not give them the power-seat!

I do not believe in secularism! When you take away faith from children we have idiots telling us it is ok to do this and that and sooner or later it will be ok to kill people because who cares....

Religion puts some boundary as to where the limit should be...ALL I SAY some form of religion has become necessary or else we get serial killers and what not trying to justify their crimes and then we also get a system where you can negotiate your release or immunity by giving some information to authorities.

It also begets rotten children who lack respect for elders and throw them in old people's home which is easier than spending 2 mins of the xbox time and taking care of their elders

It also begets people trying to justify homosexuality, bribery, corruption, back biting loss of conscience and a whole list to follow....

It also begets fear of religion like in France...where trying to be religious will impose you a fine because they want everyone to be equal? Well, when a set of identical twins are only as equal as their DNA but rest is all subjective to the environment then how do you expect diverse set of people to be equal?

Secularism is not a solution

When you give children too much religion you turn them into psychopathy, OCD & scrupulosity patients! Every human society has only progressed under secularism. Christianity and Judaism collapsed under their own weight and Islam is on the same path as well. Once the youth wakes up from the slumber of wasted years there will be many bloody revolutions, borders will be redefined, people will be killed and governments will be overthrown!

Fact: Religion was created by man not god. so to live under a theocracy or a non secular institution is to not live under god but to live under the rules created by man thousands of years ago.

to create a ruling class and a ruled class. This is what it is all about!

 

[Dubious]

Sir these things even exist in countries which are part of European Union sir and and if we start this process you will see we will find a lot more support than Euorpean Union we need to take a start and a stand and work to achieve that goal Sir vast Majority is sunni at least they can form their own union Sir than will more around 50 above countries

@Zarvan lets say you go over to Afghanistan with your idea, then march into Iran where shias will ask what have you done for shias in Pakistan? Then when you march near Turkey and they hear that Saudis will also be part of this group...What do you think their response will be?

Not until each country is slapped out of their NATIONALISM and united under ISLAM can anything be formed!

AS FOR EU it was formed because RELIGION was not taken into account...Then there were laws which benefitted everyone...THEY UNITED with a based IT IS EUROPEAN UNION (union meaning collection of sets is the set of all distinct elements in the collection.)

Now if you want to pull countries together under 1 banner or in ENGLISH WE CALL IT UNITE and that banner happens to be ISLAM a religion...THEN YOU must start by uniting the MUSLIMS so that they can actually agree to come under 1 flag!

 

[KRAIT]

@Talon Kindly read the definition of Secularism.

 

[Srinivas]

So, the "Secularism" is created by God?

Definitely yes, A tree will grow if a kafir/non-kafir sows a seed. This earth, water, air all are secular.