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Accept Vande Mataram or go to Pakistan

We didn't feel offended because it is 'a religiouse song', but because it a patriotic song which is praising mother land.

It is not high energy physics, you know. Nice try, btw.

So now you will decide what we shall chose as our national song?

Ok if this is only a patriotic song then its just a song why should be making it so religiouse to be offended by some comment about if its not religiouse in the first place.


And for a moment ok i accept it is more respected for you and you have the right to object to if anyone calls it silly Then why you are so much perturb when Muslims are offended by the same song as it is against their religion.

You can not tolerate any objection to your patriotic song while you are too bent upon altering the faith of Muslims and you are expecting Muslims to do away with their religiouse beliefs for your patriotic song.

This is biased and one-sided then
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Vande Mataram is our national song...not just any other song.

No one in india disrespects it or questions its status as our national song.

The controversy is only regarding some section of people being forced to sing when they may n't be comfortable to sing Vande Mataram on religious ground.

Now in practice, nobody is neither forced to recite Vande Mataram nor anyone refused to his pay respect to Vande Mataram on religious grounds...and this has always been the case in the past ,so i find nothing new with this fatwa from deoband or this controversy.As usual the status quo remains and its left to personal choice whether one choose to sing or just pay silent respect while it being sung.
 
Nobodies is asking you to do away with the song altogather. The problem is if its clashing with my faith and i do not want to sing a song then why should it be imposed on me that too when my country claims to be a secular one and which claims that it wont do any such lagislation which forces anything contrary to any faith.
It is this clashing part that I, speaking for myself only, do not understand. Which part of the song - mind you not the poem - is clashing with the religion. Clash is with the part, that is not part of the song in the first place.

I don't have anything against 'choice'.
I think i have posted enough which clearly shows the contradiction in claims by those who say that it is neutralised and no more clash with religiouse beliefs of Muslims.
No you haven't. Not even close. You still haven't been able to explain where the clash is. Go ahead. Try again.
If you can not differentiate between propaganda item and a news item then i cant make you understand.
So something you like is news. Something you don't like is propaganda.
 
The Problem here is translation:

Jamait-e-Ulema issued a fatwa because according to them vande mataram means Mother (India), I bow to thee.

Uddhav says, "If you don't want to salute the motherland, then whom do you salute?"

Salute?

A R rahman too faced same problem when his version of vande mataram was released, certain people from his community said its un-islamic as it meant "I bow to thee",
but then another muslim dominant guy came up to defend rahman saying it meant maa tujhe salam.

I don't see what the problem is? how many of our politicians do know our national anthem?????
I'll bet 70% would not be able to even complete it, forget about them knowing vande mataram.

will my loyalty towards my country be judged on my ability to Recite & Memorize Poems??

Uddhav is NOT WRONG here.
 
Vande Mataram is our national song...not just any other song.

No one in india disrespects it or questions its status as our national song.

The controversy is only regarding some section of people being forced to sing when they may n't be comfortable to sing Vande Mataram on religious ground.

Now in practice, nobody is neither forced to recite Vande Mataram nor anyone refused to his pay respect to Vande Mataram on religious grounds...and this has always been the case in the past ,so i find nothing new with this fatwa from deoband or this controversy.As usual the status quo remains and its left to personal choice whether one choose to sing or just pay silent respect while it being sung.

It is made compulsory to sing in schools of some states of India.

i dont know what is the status now but in the past it was there. I think on Sept 7th its still the same.
 
Ok if this is only a patriotic song then its just a song why should be making it so religiouse to be offended by some comment about if its not religiouse in the first place.
It is not 'just a song'. It is a National Song.

Really, how hard is it to understand this simple fact.
And for a moment ok i accept it is more respected for you and you have the right to object to if anyone calls it silly Then why you are so much perturb when Muslims are offended by the same song as it is against their religion.
There you go again. The whole debate is how is it offending the muslims.
You can not tolerate any objection to your patriotic song while you are too bent upon altering the faith of Muslims and you are expecting Muslims to do away with their religiouse beliefs for your patriotic song.

This is biased and one-sided then
Once again. Please explain, where does the song 'alters the faith' of muslims.

The song, not the poem mind you.
 
Sprint the problem is not what you worship and we being Muslims have no concern what others worship, being Muslims we do not use idols even to make ordinary people understand the god.

we do not worship any image or idol and any other form of idol worship hence the objection over vande mataram is there for so long even before partition.

there are many other national songs why to impose this one on everyone even those who do not want to sing it


Jana perhaps thats the reason the wider mass doesnot understand religion and on top of that it is forbidden in islam to even have a potrait of lord. the whole point of this long thread and vande mataram is the opinion that we do not worship anything except allah. Do what you wish and ofcourse there should be no binding to follow any faith so why was the thread brought up at the first place.


And webmaster hinduism believes in plurity, so of course there are people who freely interpret hinduism in their best capacity (not necessarily that is correct) but to comment on any thing do some reading and research before you say. At least hinduism doesnot say I am absolute (only person who did this was Ravana and he met his fate) and you can not have an opinion except what is written in the holy book
 
The Problem here is translation:

Jamait-e-Ulema issued a fatwa because according to them vande mataram means Mother (India), I bow to thee.

Uddhav says, "If you don't want to salute the motherland, then whom do you salute?"

Salute?

A R rahman too faced same problem when his version of vande mataram was released, certain people from his community said its un-islamic as it meant "I bow to thee",
but then another muslim dominant guy came up to defend rahman saying it meant maa tujhe salam.

I don't see what the problem is? how many of our politicians do know our national anthem?????
I'll bet 70% would not be able to even complete it, forget about them knowing vande mataram.

will my loyalty towards my country be judged on my ability to Recite & Memorize Poems??

Uddhav is NOT WRONG here.


Julien the word "bowing" and "Salute" are two different things.

keeping in mind the history of this poem and the meaning it has, those who are objecting to it are justified whereas there also many Muslims who have no objection in singing it as they do not practice their own religion usually so for them its ok while those who take their religion more serioulsy, its a matter of concern for them.


And yes i also say the same why my loyalities should be judged by my action to recite something.

When Muslims do not have any objection over Indian Anthem then indeed there is something disturbing in this song otherwise they would have accepted it warmly as they did accept their national anthem.
 
Jana perhaps thats the reason the wider mass doesnot understand religion and on top of that it is forbidden in islam to even have a potrait of lord. the whole point of this long thread and vande mataram is the opinion that we do not worship anything except allah. Do what you wish and ofcourse there should be no binding to follow any faith so why was the thread brought up at the first place.

well i cant say about wider mass elsewhere but i think we have the most simpliest religion and we do understand it. Anyway that is a different debate.

The reason for bringing the thread in the first place was and is that despite passage of over many decades the Indians or i should say Hindus want to impose vande mataram on Muslims by hook or by crook.


And just a thought crosses one's mind that a song which was written even before independence of India how come it becomes a national song?

And webmaster hinduism believes in plurity, so of course there are people who freely interpret hinduism in their best capacity (not necessarily that is correct) but to comment on any thing do some reading and research before you say. At least hinduism doesnot say I am absolute (only person who did this was Ravana and he met his fate) and you can not have an opinion except what is written in the holy book

We dont have any concern what hinduism says. Thats your religion and you have right whatever you think or do. Wether hinduism claims to be absolute or not it doesnt affect me as long as you do not force it on me.
 
Why so worried abt the Indian muslims? I mean if war broke out today, they would fight against Pakistan, so wht is the big deal, you actually shouldn't give a damn abt them.
 
Why so worried abt the Indian muslims? I mean if war broke out today, they would fight against Pakistan, so wht is the big deal, you actually shouldn't give a damn abt them.

In case of war they should side and will side with their country as its their country so i have no objection over that.

And i would not castigate them just because they sided with their country :)

Anyway back to the topic
 
Nobodies is asking you to do away with the song altogather. The problem is if its clashing with my faith and i do not want to sing a song then why should it be imposed on me that too when my country claims to be a secular one and which claims that it wont do any such lagislation which forces anything contrary to any faith.

Well it should not be enforced if it is clashing with anyone's faith and trust me it won't..but the question is if it is clashing with someone's belief. India is know for her religion tolerance and i am sure GOI will do what is right. It is a national song and for patriotism not for dividing people on religion and forcing them to sing something they don't want to.


I think i have posted enough which clearly shows the contradiction in claims by those who say that it is neutralised and no more clash with religiouse beliefs of Muslims.
Well thats your POV. The way we see it we dont find it offended. Anyways it should be once choice rather than something forced upon. I being a sikh have grown up singing this song even though in Sikhism we dont worship any diety but then i always sung it with view point of praising my country and not any religion or diety...Again choice..


One last thing Vande Matram is the slogan that has lot of historic importance in India's indepence struggle and so is the song. This has been used by people from Gandhi to Bhagat Singh irrespective of religion. Thus it is not a silly or religious song. It is a song having utmost importance to Indians and thus deserve respect from fellow pakistanis.
 
Jana,

Why give so much importance to Mr. Udhav Thackeray whose party recently lost state elections miserably - verifies the fact that majority of Indians do not approve of Udhav's and his party's hard-line politics.

Indians, be Hindus or Muslims, do not need a lesson from Pakistanis who have systematically sidelined all minorities in their country.

Indian Muslims will always be a part of India, whether they sing "Vande Mataram" or not. Indian Muslims will always be a part of India because they know that for every Udhav, there are 10 Gandhis in India who will always stand by their Muslim friends and will respect their beliefs.

So... thanks for showing your concern but fact remains, you people should be more concerned about the state of affairs in your country rather than poking nose in Indian affairs.
 
Following is a translation of the famous song in Urdu by Mr. Arif Mohammed Khan. Please read it:

Tasleemat, maan tasleemat
tu bhari hai meethe pani se
phal phoolon ki shadabi se
dakkin ki thandi hawaon se
faslon ki suhani fizaaon se
tasleemat, maan tasleemat
teri raaten roshan chand se
teri raunaq sabze faam se
teri pyar bhari muskan hai
teri meethi bahut zuban hai
teri banhon mein meri rahat hai
tere qadmon mein meri jannat hai
tasleemat, maan tasleemat -

Now, what wrong do you find in this song? What is anti-Islamic in it?

You may want to read the following article by Mr. Khan.

'Unnecessary And Irrelevant'

Challenge to religion comes from those who indulge in terrorism in the name of religion, not from those who sing the National Song and express their gratitude for all the beneficence of motherland - thus strengthening the bond of fraternity and brotherhood.
Arif Mohammed Khan

The new controversy regarding Vande Mataram is unnecessary and irrelevant. It is true that in the 1930s, there were differing opinions. The Congress Working Committee after lengthy deliberations took a view in 1937 to adopt first two stanzas as National Song. It is also true that the Muslim League persisted in its opposition till the country was divided. But the Constituent Assembly adopted Vande Mataram as National Song ('the song Vande Mataram, which has played a historic part in the struggle for Indian freedom, shall be honoured equally with Jana Gana Mana and shall have equal status with it'). Those who persist in their opposition are actually negating a constitutional ideal. After all, the Constitution is not merely an exercise in semantics but expression of the people's national faith.

Vande Mataram was composed in 1870s and was made part of the Anandamath in 1881. In the Calcutta session of the Congress, the song was sung by Rabindranath Tagore, who had composed music for the song as well. This session was attended by good number of Muslim delegates and nobody had objected to the song. In fact, since 1896, the song had become permanent part of the proceedings of Congress sessions held in various cities of India.

It is important to remember that when Maulana Abul Kalam Azad was the president of the Congress, Vande Mataram was sung in all party sessions. In fact, Mr Rafi Ahmad Kidwai in his statement that was published in The Pioneer on October 19, 1937, observed:

"For years the song was sung at the beginning of Congress sessions and Muslims including Jinnah began to object only in the late 1930s. Jinnah left Congress not because he thought Vande Mataram was an anti-Islamic song but because he had found the idea of swaraj unacceptable."

There is no denying the fact that Vande Mataram was a great source of inspiration for freedom fighters and became a powerful expression of Indian resolve to free the nation from foreign subjugation. The British government, on the other hand, saw it as challenge to its authority and subsequently declared singing of the song a crime. The opposition to Vande Mataram came from the Muslim League, which under the leadership of Mohammad Ali Jinnah had developed a different attitude from those of nationalists on the question of India's freedom from foreign rule.

It is worth recalling the comment of Reyazul Karim, a leading litterateur of Bengal who wrote a critique of Vande Mataram. Karim said,

"The main purpose of opposition to Vande Mataram was to bring Muslims out of the freedom struggle." He further said that the song gave language to the dumb and courage to the faint-hearted, and this remains Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay's lasting gift to the country. He went to the extent that "even if criticism against Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay is accepted, is his literary worth lessened by that. Literature should be read as literature".

There are people who hold Allama Iqbal as one of the ideologues of Pakistan, but are we going to allow them to demand that because of his authorship we should jettison singing Sare jahan se achchha Hindustan hamara? Fortunately, nobody has raised this demand.

With this historical background, I have no doubt that opposition to Vande Mataram is not rooted in religion but in divisive politics that led to Partition. This song is important not only because it inspired our freedom fighters, but also because it gives remarkable description of beautiful and beneficent aspects of the motherland.

While opposing Vande Mataram, the Muslim Personal Law Board has gone to the extent of advising Muslim parents not to send their ward to schools on September 7. May I inform them the every session of Parliament concludes with Vande Mataram. Are they going to advise Muslim MPs to abstain from Parliament when Vande Mataram is being sung, or will they ask Muslims not to participate in elections because of the National Song?

From the Islamic viewpoint, the basic yardstick of an action is Innamal Aamalu Binnyat (action depends on intention). Hailing or saluting Motherland or singing its beauty and beneficence is not sajda. Maulana Azad was a great Islamic scholar, but he found nothing anti-religion about this song. Rafi Ahmad Kidwai strongly defended Vande Mataram. Moreover, we must remember the words of the Prophet: "The whole earth has been made mosque for me." Now, nobody would dispute that mosque deserves reverence. More so the piece of earth where we are born and brought up, the piece of earth that God has blessed us with to enjoy its beneficence. And if we join our compatriots to revere that piece of earth as our motherland, can this be anti religious? Certainly not.

The government has rightly asked the educational institutions to organise collective singing of Vande Mataram as a tribute not only to the author but also freedom fighters who laid down their lives with this song on their lips. But the strange thing is that now they are sounding defensive as if they have done something wrong.

History shows us that by giving concessions to communal demands, we can buy temporary peace but in the long term the country pays dearly and we become abettors in perpetuating the legacy of divisive politics. We have not able to overcome the malignant fallout of what we did in 1986 under pressure of the Muslim Personal Law Board. We simply can not afford another blunder.

Challenge to religion comes from those who indulge in terrorism in the name of religion, not from those who sing the National Song and express their gratitude for all the beneficence of motherland - thus strengthening the bond of fraternity and brotherhood.

Senior BJP leader Arif Mohammad Khan is a former union minister, well-known for the stand he had taken as a part of Rajiv Gandhi's government on the Shah Bano issue. This piece first appeared in the Pioneer

Source: www.outlookindia.com | 'Unnecessary And Irrelevant'
 
By the way, some of you are getting way too emotional over Jana's comment. I don't see what's so offensive in calling a National Song a "Silly" song. At least she didn't use that word for the Indian national anthem. If some Indian comes in here and calls "Dil Dil Pakistan" (Which is our national song) a "Silly" song, I'd let it go because at the end of the day, what does an Indian know about our national song anyway?

Same is the case with this. It's a composition composed by an artist. Other people can call it whatever they want, it's only YOU who knows the significance of that song and that's what matters.

Wow how easily you dismiss the entire issue......

The issue Berzerk is not whether YOU think it is "offensive"....its the people who get offended....
Seems like 3 pages worth of redflags about this issue have not convinced you that this is a sensitive matter, yet you make statements like the above!!!
Whether you hold your national song as a matter of pride and if you dont care that someone is ridiculing the same is none of my business.....but a "national song" that has been sung for the last 62 years and longer to inspire our countrymen and as a source of pride and praise for India is being made fun of.......

I hardly think you would show such a clandestine attitude if this was about Pakistan......but hey its expected.....
Anyways....keep up the good work
 

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