A View about India Written by Pakistani Journalist Dr. Farrukh Saleem

[Armstrong]

@Oscar @Secur - Pitch in as well !

And why have you stopped responding to my racists posts ?

I feel so unloved !

 

[Srinivas]

That's not entirely true. Pakistan has rich resources but not the system (from experts to infrastructure) to harness them and it's not easy to set these up being the centre point of international politics ignoring the Indo-Pak debacles.

The reason for not forming a good administrative bodies and political system is intolerance. Pakistanis never wanted to give equal status to Bengalis who are majority in number. So Democracy never rooted in the society, Fuedals along with Mullahs got the power. They did what they know.

Secondly, the division was not only based on religion but by extension on caste (as faith conversions followed caste as well with lower castes opting for the new faith more than the upper ones, true for almost all religions). Therefore, Pakistan lost her business class, most of Punjab here was agricultural labourers and professional soldiers which is why in our culture martial values are given greater preference. This greatly impeded Pakistani rise of economic development as the landlord class came into to fill the gap but the true entrepreneur class (which India had) did not come to rise until the late 70s which is represented by much of PML-N.

Division was based on religion, castesim has nothing to do with it. Here again because of the mind set of newly formed Pakistan it lost its bussiness class in the form for Hindu sindhis and Sikh Punjabis.

Muslims never wanted Sikhs and Hindus to thrive in the land of pure.

Thirdly, this arrangement, makes it further in the collective unconscious of the nation to maintain the status quo as the base of societal power and projection of civics rests on a very concentrated power base. That's why inspite of being repeatedly pointed out as the problem of the system the landlords manage to come back in again and again into the system.

Fourthly, a further proof of this can be seen as in the only nation wide societal changes that addressed power distribution of systems (bureaucracy, army, NA and so on)was after the 1971 elections where enough political will had been garnered to make it possible. Otherwise to this day thishas not been possible.
So, if you leave your political views and read the sociology of Pakistan you can find out why things are the way they are.

After 1971 Pakistan had the opportunity to go for democracy and end feudalism but unfortunately it never happened because of Afghan jihad and Zia's dictatorship.

Soon after 1971 war Pakistani military establishment took control and centralized every thing and went the Islamic way.

In my view be it Democracy/ Dictatorship Pakistan always has the opportunity to thrive.

 

[Sugarcane]

Our lands are already Dar-ul-Islam !

For a Mullah Brigade that works so tirelessly & appeals to an 'inbuilt' ideology of ours - Its quite surprising that none of their varied Political Parties have ever managed to form a Government at the Center & only once did they managed to form a Government in one Province because of boycott by most of the other Parties & because they banded together & even then it wasn't an absolute majority !

You should visit Pakistan sometime - It'll help clear up many of your misconceptions & put so much into its proper perspective !

Butt. sb. Rain dao, eho jaian cheezan border de os par e changian lagdia nay

 

[Srinivas]

Yes most unfortunate but then again when seen in its proper perspective - a country which is fighting militant separatism on one hand & religious extremism on the other - is bound to have such things otherwise if there were no issues there wouldn't be any fighting them !

However how are the actions of a sporadic few representative of the State of Pakistan or even the larger society of Pakistan ?

It would be as absurd as saying that between female infanticide & horrendous stories of rape - All Indian Men are male chauvinistic beings who, when they cannot kill their daughters, would rather molest or worst rape women around them & that the State of India is a sexist state where a woman is neither safe in her mother's womb nor outside it !

Or we could see such issues for what they are - Issues & not condemn entire nations or societies to
damnation because of the actions of a few !

Forced Conversions are unique to muslim majority countries, rape is common in every society. The point I am emphasizing here is intolerance based on religion is there in Pakistani society compared India which is the main reason for other religions are not allowed to thrive in pakistan.

 

[Armstrong]

Forced Conversions are unique to muslim majority countries, rape is common in every society. The point I am emphasizing here is intolerance based on religion is there in Pakistani society compared India which is the main reason for other religions are not allowed to thrive in pakistan.

That is an extremely sweeping statement & a very subjective one at that - What exactly do you base it on ?

And what evidence, if any, do you care to present for 'other religions not (being) allowed to thrive in Pakistan' ?

What is the barometer used here for you to arrive at this conclusion ?

 

[SQ8]

@Oscar @Secur - Pitch in as well !

And why have you stopped responding to my racists posts ?

I feel so unloved !

There is not much to pitch in. We have a reactionary tirade by one Indian on Islam as somehow that provides an excellent opportunity to divert and dish out religious tones for what is a quasi-cultural religious issue. But then again, when you have trash to dish out on Muslims.. you do.

On the other hand we have people trying to play down the massive issues that Pakistan has plainly due to the existence of feudal thought that is has now mutated to a feudal-religious force. Not to mention the most important part.. Indians elect their leaders...they dont get dictators that sit on their heads, do what they wish like starting wars or training mad nutjobs without a care for accountability

 

[Armstrong]

There is not much to pitch in. We have a reactionary tirade by one Indian on Islam as somehow that provides an excellent opportunity to divert and dish out religious tones for what is a quasi-cultural religious issue. But then again, when you have trash to dish out on Muslims.. you do.

On the other hand we have people trying to play down the massive issues that Pakistan has plainly due to the existence of feudal thought that is has now mutated to a feudal-religious force. Not to mention the most important part.. Indians elect their leaders...they dont get dictators that sit on their heads, do what they wish like starting wars or training mad nutjobs without a care for accountability

Waisee I've always been fascinated with this recurrent talk of Feudalism - Where exactly are the Feudals in power ?

In KPK - No !

In Sindh - Maybe !

In Baluchistan - Yup !

In Pukhtoon areas of Baluchistan - No !

In Punjab - I'm sure they're still there but I'd imagine they got rooted out by the Industrialists & the Trading Class as far back as the '80s !

 

[phylumchordata]

the writer is paranoid...

 

[Srinivas]

That is an extremely sweeping statement & a very subjective one at that - What exactly do you base it on ?

And what evidence, if any, do you care to present for 'other religions not (being) allowed to thrive in Pakistan' ?

What is the barometer used here for you to arrive at this conclusion ?

Forced conversions hike Pakistan minorities' fears

Rinkal Kumari addresses a press conference with her husband at Karachi Press Club.—File Photo


LAHORE: It was barely 4 am when 19-year-old Rinkal Kumari disappeared from her home in a small village in Pakistan's southern Sindh province. When her parents awoke they found only her slippers and a scarf outside the door.

A few hours later her father got a call telling him his daughter, a Hindu, had converted to Islam to marry a Muslim boy.

Only days later, Seema Bibi, a Christian woman in the province of Punjab, was kidnapped along with her four children after her husband couldn't repay a loan to a large landlord. Within hours, her husband was told his wife had converted to Islam and wouldn't be coming home. Seema Bibi escaped, fled the village and has gone underground with her husband and children.

..........

Forced conversions hike Pakistan minorities' fears - DAWN.COM



Funded by Saudis, given freedom by the rulers Mullahs can do any thing to convert people Dude!!!

Minority Rights Group International : Press releases : Somalia tops list of countries where minorities most under threat
Pakistan is in top 20 in this list.


Persecution of religious minorities in Pakistan

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Mat I have read that post and I disagree with the point related to Infra.

Pakistan was give a resource rich land , a land which is strategically located in Asia. What more is needed.

A land which can feed 36 crores of population , .i.e 2 times the current population. Water resources which can generate enough electricity.

A very good canal system, Strategic location which can enable tariff for land route offered.

Oh damn ... Pakistan got a rich land..

And india didn't? apart from land you have hundreds of industries,factories... heck you had almost 2 dozen ordinance factories alone... compared to 1 non function mill we had !! Do I need to say more!


And strategic location alone doesn't feed millions... or millions of refugees !

You had industries,funds etc... we had soil and water... and the most backward and under developed areas!!

Nice logic.

Rather than looking inwards pakistan always depended on aid

Funny... india is the largest AID receiving country in south asia... heck you got 100 times more AID than whole of S.A combined!

Unfortunately Pakistani leaders never fully understand the word "real politik" and are stuck at hating India, making an enemy out of it.

Awww.. poor innocent india.. I wonder why all her neighbours dislike her...

Punjab was divided and based on religion.

Cool story..

KPK and Balouchistan have hindus whose number may be close to lakh.

They dnt even make 1% of our population in these provinces... and all of them were settlers not sons of the soil... historically speaking.

 

[SQ8]

Waisee I've always been fascinated with this recurrent talk of Feudalism - Where exactly are the Feudals in power ?

In KPK - No !

In Sindh - Maybe !

In Baluchistan - Yup !

In Pukhtoon areas of Baluchistan - No !

In Punjab - I'm sure they're still there but I'd imagine they got rooted out by the Industrialists & the Trading Class as far back as the '80s !

Actually, this is more of a mentality rather than a class. Think of the industrialists..and trading class. Where did they come from.. how do they behave. Think of the KPK political scenario.. what factors rule their dynamics.. think of Sindh? Does economic performance and development all determine who comes into power or rather personal relations and family preferences??

 

[Srinivas]

the writer is paranoid...

Buy a horse and a sword, establish yourself a kingdom .....

 

[timetravel]

Pakistan needs someone to emulate the work of AAP in their country.

 

[Armstrong]

Actually, this is more of a mentality rather than a class. Think of the industrialists..and trading class. Where did they come from.. how do they behave. Think of the KPK political scenario.. what factors rule their dynamics.. think of Sindh? Does economic performance and development all determine who comes into power or rather personal relations and family preferences??

But that isn't unique to Pakistan is it ?

Every country in the region has that - Its a 3rd World Trait exasperated by some of the ills that our South Asian societies have developed !

 

[SQ8]

But that isn't unique to Pakistan is it ?

Every country in the region has that - Its a 3rd World Trait exasperated by some of the ills that our South Asian societies have developed !

It may not be unique to Pakistan, but it is not embedded into the system of governance like it.. nor is it the primary agent driving political and personal thought. That is where we differ.