A View about India Written by Pakistani Journalist Dr. Farrukh Saleem

[banvanaxl]

So is being a Kyshatriya linked to your religious disposition or to your blood ?

Caste-ism as promulgated by an arsehole called Manu a thousand years back or so.

Brahmins : Priests, teachers, gurus etc.
Kyshatriya : Warriors/kingly castes .. etc etc.
Viashyas: Tradesmen and their ilk.
Shudras: Cobblers/rag pickers/cleanup men etc.

The root cause of all the problems facing this part of the subcontinent.

And he's right being a Kyshatriya/Rajput is essentially a Hindu thing.

 

[Armstrong]

Both. Being a Kyshatriya, Brahmin, Shudra, Vaishya has all to do with the caste system, which apparently does not exist in Islam.

Indeed it does not but what I was curious about was that either Rajputs are an Ethnic Group or they are not & if they are not then they must be either a Religious Grouping in-line with this caste-classification that you speak of but if they are an Ethnic Group then their identity would be more centered around language & culture instead of religious classification in terms of castes because martial prowess can be exclusive of religion too !

 

[Srinivas]

I thought Gandhi Sahib was a Gujrati !

Of course....of course !

Do visit Pakistan sometime to gather how much we're oppressing our cultures & mimicking Arabs instead of formulating your opinion from crappy articles with provocative punch-lines or loud talk-shows meant to spice things up !

Or better yet just listen to 1-2 Episodes of Coke Studio & see the diversity for yourself !

It is in built in your ideology to make the other faiths weaker day by day and make your land Dar-ul-Islam.

Mullah brigade is tirelessly working for this mission, funded by Saudi.

General Zia's period is a testimony to this fact.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Dude!!!!

Gandhi is a Gujarati and a proud sindhi.

So
gandhis family also migrated from Sindh... and adopted gujrati culture and language?

We do watch Pak tv channels and we also learn how people across the border are obsessed by Arabic style of life, their language and also try hard themselves to identify them selves next to them .....

Just cover a blanket of Islam and Arabism on Pakistan and every thing will be fine and the nation is one ..... in the logic your politicians and military professional follow.

You are not debating here ...... what it is.......upto you to decide ......

Cool story kid... now do show some proof to prove your retarded nonsense... or just shut your cake hole..

Do you even know the meaning of "Rajput"? We are Kyshatriyas, you can't be a Kyshathriya and be a Muslim at the same time

Im not a rajput ... nor do i care... but do tell us abt sikh rajputs like banda bahadur singh or muslim rajputs like dulla bhatti etc... who fought mughals ...(yeah dulla fought akbar... while you ... ehm...)... or Raja Hassan Khan a rajhistani muslim raja who was allied with sangram singh against babur...

etc etc... Anyways carry on with your rants not

It is in built in your ideology to make the other faiths weaker day by day and make your land Dar-ul-Islam.

Mullah brigade is tirelessly working for this mission, funded by Saudi.

General Zia's period is a testimony to this fact.

 

[jaibi]

My friend, you've mistaken his base premise which is that Pakistan and India are two tangents of the same people; which he extents as: therefore, the development in India should have been mirrored by Pakistan; as that is not the case, the problem is what you are pointing out.

Now, I've stated that this the very first premise is faulty as it does not hold true to the societal factors which became the foundation of the two states and this is purely in terms of sociology and not politics. Realpolitik explains our situation much better than this one.

I am not inferring which country is better or some thing else, But here I am defending the writer of the article.

The author clearly pointing to the fact that people irrespective of their back grounds like in case of Azim Premji who is an ismaili thrive here in India in Business or any other field.

Where as in pakistan people often discriminate based on religion and sects.

Muslims because of their intolerance and radicalism drove sikhs and sindhis out of sindh and Punjab which were once thriving business centers for them.

The author is emphasizing on economy and creation of wealth and is also portraying the fact about the mentality of people on both the nations, one is with conserved ideology and the other is liberal.

 

[Armstrong]

It is in built in your ideology to make the other faiths weaker day by day and make your land Dar-ul-Islam.

Mullah brigade is tirelessly working for this mission, funded by Saudi.

General Zia's period is a testimony to this fact.

Our lands are already Dar-ul-Islam !

For a Mullah Brigade that works so tirelessly & appeals to an 'inbuilt' ideology of ours - Its quite surprising that none of their varied Political Parties have ever managed to form a Government at the Center & only once did they managed to form a Government in one Province because of boycott by most of the other Parties & because they banded together & even then it wasn't an absolute majority !

You should visit Pakistan sometime - It'll help clear up many of your misconceptions & put so much into its proper perspective !

 

[banvanaxl]

Indeed it does not but what I was curious about was that either Rajputs are an Ethnic Group or they are not & if they are not then they must be either a Religious Grouping in-line with this caste-classification that you speak of but if they are an Ethnic Group then their identity would be more centered around language & culture instead of religious classification in terms of castes because martial prowess can be exclusive of religion too !

Rajput is a sanskrit word meaning Raj- king Putra- sons. So basically Royal lineage.
It is not an exclusive ethnic identity mate. The Rajputs hail from three clans viz Suryavanshis, Chandravanshis, and the Agnikulas.

The Suryavanshis were Surya or sun worshipers.
The Chandravanshis were the Chandra or moon worshipers and
The Agnikulas were the Agni or fire god worshipers.

Go figure ... :-/

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

I am not inferring which country is better or some thing else, But here I am defending the writer of the article.

The author clearly pointing to the fact that people irrespective of their back grounds like in case of Azim Premji who is an ismaili thrive here in India in Business or any other field.

Where as in pakistan people often discriminate based on religion and sects.

Muslims because of their intolerance and radicalism drove sikhs and sindhis out of sindh and Punjab which were once thriving business centers for them.

The author is emphasizing on economy and creation of wealth and is also portraying the fact about the mentality of people on both the nations, one is with conserved ideology and the other is liberal.

1)I can show you several examples like the cowasji family in Karachi... the Murree Brewery guys... etc etc.

As for intolerance etc... what happened to the ones muslim majority state of Punjab? how many muslims in indian Punjab left today?

Sindh has the largest hindu population in Pakistan even today... while KPK-Baluchistan and Punjab never had non muslim majorities ...!

 

[Srinivas]

My friend, you've mistaken his base premise which is that Pakistan and India are two tangents of the same people; which he extents as: therefore, the development in India should have been mirrored by Pakistan; as that is not the case, the problem is what you are pointing out.

Mate I have read that post and I disagree with the point related to Infra.

Pakistan was give a resource rich land , a land which is strategically located in Asia. What more is needed.

A land which can feed 36 crores of population , .i.e 2 times the current population. Water resources which can generate enough electricity.

A very good canal system, Strategic location which can enable tariff for land route offered.

Rather than looking inwards pakistan always depended on aid.

Now, I've stated that this the very first premise is faulty as it does not hold true to the societal factors which became the foundation of the two states and this is purely in terms of sociology and not politics. Realpolitik explains our situation much better than this one.

Unfortunately Pakistani leaders never fully understand the word "real politik" and are stuck at hating India, making an enemy out of it.

1)I can show you several examples like the cowasji family in Karachi... the Murree Brewery guys... etc etc.

As for intolerance etc... what happened to the ones muslim majority state of Punjab? how many muslims in indian Punjab left today?

Sindh has the largest hindu population in Pakistan even today... while KPK-Baluchistan and Punjab never had non muslim majorities ...!

Punjab was divided and based on religion.

KPK and Balouchistan have hindus whose number may be close to lakh.

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Why shut the this thing ..... lets play !!!!


First of all, you have no idea about Gandhi's ethnicity and here you are with all your B.S on Sindhi related discussion.

The most prominent sindhi of modern times is Gandhi, and you do not have the clue about this.

A sindhi from Porbandar gujrat...who spoke gujarati ....and is mentioned as a gujrati in his autobio...

Pakistan and the events occurred over the decades after the formation is the best example of contradictions. What more proof do you want.

Sure tell us abt those events... have ever had events like Gujrat,Orissa etc in our country? have dozens let alone thousands of people been mowed down in Pakistan like india?

 

[Armstrong]

Rajput is a sanskrit word meaning Raj- king Putra- sons. So basically Royal lineage.
It is not an exclusive ethnic identity mate. The Rajputs hail from three clans viz Suryavanshis, Chandravanshis, and the Agnikulas.

The Suryavanshis were Surya or sun worshipers.
The Chandravanshis were the Chandra or moon worshipers and
The Agnikulas were the Agni or fire god worshipers.

Go figure ... :-/

But mate isn't a Clan an Ethnic Grouping of sorts ?

At any rate what would one make of those Rajputs who converted to Islam later on - Did they stop being Rajputs because Islam doesn't prescribe to a caste system or does their lineage from one of those three clans, as you mention them, still grant them the right to identify as Rajputs or do they evolve into a completely separate ethnic group altogether which is perhaps trans-ethnic in the sort that they bring together a historical Rajput identity on one hand & a new found religious belief - Islam - on the other & they've subconsciously synthesized the both into a separate Muslim Rajput Culture & Identity ?

 

[Srinivas]

Gandhi was not a Sindhi, stop making yourself look like an idiot.

I misquoted this .....

Our lands are already Dar-ul-Islam !

For a Mullah Brigade that works so tirelessly & appeals to an 'inbuilt' ideology of ours - Its quite surprising that none of their varied Political Parties have ever managed to form a Government at the Center & only once did they managed to form a Government in one Province because of boycott by most of the other Parties & because they banded together & even then it wasn't an absolute majority !

You should visit Pakistan sometime - It'll help clear up many of your misconceptions & put so much into its proper perspective !

Abduction of Hindu Girls and converting them to Islam, do I need to tell anything else??

Hindus repeatedly trying to migrate to India one more example.

A sindhi from Porbandar gujrat...who spoke gujarati ....and is mentioned as a gujrati in his autobio...



Sure tell us abt those events... have ever had events like Gujrat,Orissa etc in our country? have dozens let alone thousands of people been mowed down in Pakistan like india?

Seems I misquoted the line that Gandhi is a Sindhi .

Rajput is a sanskrit word meaning Raj- king Putra- sons. So basically Royal lineage.
It is not an exclusive ethnic identity mate. The Rajputs hail from three clans viz Suryavanshis, Chandravanshis, and the Agnikulas.

The Suryavanshis were Surya or sun worshipers.
The Chandravanshis were the Chandra or moon worshipers and
The Agnikulas were the Agni or fire god worshipers.

Go figure ... :-/

Khstriya do not mean King or Royal! But warriors.

Surya vanshis and Chandravanshis are kshtryas who worship sun and moon.

Rajputs are kshatriyas who are agnikulas , They are warrior clan who are also a mixed breed. Just like today's soldiers.

Basically a clan from which soldiers can be inducted/martial .

 

[jaibi]

That's not entirely true. Pakistan has rich resources but not the system (from experts to infrastructure) to harness them and it's not easy to set these up being the centre point of international politics ignoring the Indo-Pak debacles.

Secondly, the division was not only based on religion but by extension on caste (as faith conversions followed caste as well with lower castes opting for the new faith more than the upper ones, true for almost all religions). Therefore, Pakistan lost her business class, most of Punjab here was agricultural labourers and professional soldiers which is why in our culture martial values are given greater preference. This greatly impeded Pakistani rise of economic development as the landlord class came into to fill the gap but the true entrepreneur class (which India had) did not come to rise until the late 70s which is represented by much of PML-N.

Thirdly, this arrangement, makes it further in the collective unconscious of the nation to maintain the status quo as the base of societal power and projection of civics rests on a very concentrated power base. That's why inspite of being repeatedly pointed out as the problem of the system the landlords manage to come back in again and again into the system.

Fourthly, a further proof of this can be seen as in the only nation wide societal changes that addressed power distribution of systems (bureaucracy, army, NA and so on)was after the 1971 elections where enough political will had been garnered to make it possible. Otherwise to this day thishas not been possible.

So, if you leave your political views and read the sociology of Pakistan you can find out why things are the way they are.

Mat I have read that post and I disagree with the point related to Infra.

Pakistan was give a resource rich land , a land which is strategically located in Asia. What more is needed.

A land which can feed 36 crores of population , .i.e 2 times the current population. Water resources which can generate enough electricity.

A very good canal system, Strategic location which can enable tariff for land route offered.

Rather than looking inwards pakistan always depended on aid.



Unfortunately Pakistani leaders never fully understand the word "real politik" and are stuck at hating India, making an enemy out of it.



Punjab was divided and based on religion.

KPK and Balouchistan have hindus whose number may be close to lakh.

 

[Armstrong]

Abduction of Hindu Girls and converting them to Islam, do I need to tell anything else??

Hindus repeatedly trying to migrate to India one more example.

Yes most unfortunate but then again when seen in its proper perspective - a country which is fighting militant separatism on one hand & religious extremism on the other - is bound to have such things otherwise if there were no issues there wouldn't be any fighting them !

However how are the actions of a sporadic few representative of the State of Pakistan or even the larger society of Pakistan ?

It would be as absurd as saying that between female infanticide & horrendous stories of rape - All Indian Men are male chauvinistic beings who, when they cannot kill their daughters, would rather molest or worst rape women around them & that the State of India is a sexist state where a woman is neither safe in her mother's womb nor outside it !

Or we could see such issues for what they are - Issues & not condemn entire nations or societies to damnation because of the actions of a few !

 

[banvanaxl]

But mate isn't a Clan an Ethnic Grouping of sorts ?
At any rate what would one make of those Rajputs who converted to Islam later on - Did they stop being Rajputs because Islam doesn't prescribe to a caste system or does their lineage from one of those three clans, as you mention them, still grant them the right to identify as Rajputs or do they evolve into a completely separate ethnic group altogether which is perhaps trans-ethnic in the sort that they bring together a historical Rajput identity on one hand & a new found religious belief - Islam - on the other & they've subconsciously synthesized the both into a separate Muslim Rajput Culture & Identity ?

Let me rephrase that. See the clans or groups or whatever were essentially divided on the lines of which clan/group whatever worshipped which particular hindu deity. Now these three clans were tasked with ruling/fighting/bickering and crap and they were termed as Raj-puts or belonging to royal lineage and Kshatriyas or warriors and they were demarcated as one arm of the hindu caste system.

Now I imagine and correct me if I am wrong, when a rajput/kshatriya converts into another religion, he is not a part of the caste anymore. So essentially he ceases to be a rajput or a kshatriya by the definition.
Ofcourse historical and familial identities persist I believe.