What's new

A tiger without teeth

usman_1112

FULL MEMBER
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
148
Reaction score
0
A tiger without teeth.
Air craft carrier with out Air power.
Warships normally have a operational life of 30 years after which they are invariably decommissioned. It is to the credit of the Indian Navy that the steam propulsion Viraat is still materially operational for Sea Harrier flying.

The Harriers are also aging and being selectively upgraded by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) with new Elta 2032 radars and Derby missiles (Grounded in UK 2006.)four services refit has done from it’s induction in India navy.

HMS Hermes was laid down before the end of WWII but was only completed in 1959 after many changes in design to accommodate the new jet aircraft. When the new Sea Harrier came into operation she was given a special ramp to allow her to operate the new aircraft. She was flagship in the Falkland's conflict in 1982 and only two years later put into reserve and subsequently sold to India.

India's maritime ambitions of the 21st Century are premised on a balanced fleet of surface ships which includes a three aircraft carrier fleet, two dozen conventional and nuclear powered submarines and more than 100 aerial assets including UAVs to support the fleet.

INS Viraat originally was commissioned in the British Royal Navy as: HMS Hermes in 1959; India bought the vessel in 1986. It was commissioned as INS VIRAAT on 12 May 1987. The aircraft carrier earlier underwent a refit in 1999-2001. It completed a major refit at Cochin Shipyards from 1999 through April 2001. This refit extended the ship's service life until 2010 and included upgrades to the ship's propulsion systems, its radar suite, communications systems, elevator upgrades, and new weapon systems.

In September 1993, the engine room of Viraat was flooded, temporarily putting the vessel out of service. By 1995, the vessel was back with a new search radar.
Apart from some major and minor refits at different times, including one in 2006, INS Viraat underwent an extensive life-extension refit in 1999-2000, with new and upgraded propulsion, sensors, sonar, radars, weapons, communication and flood-control systems.

Flagship of the Indian Navy, INS Viraat (R-22) put into major refit in late 2003 and took more than a year to become fighting fit again. The 45-year-old carrier was in dry-dock at Kochi for most of the year. Elaborate repairs and refitting had to be carried out on India's lone aircraft carrier in dry dock to keep it going

This refit extended the ship's service life until 2010 and included upgrades to the ship's propulsion systems, its radar suite, communications systems, elevator upgrades, and new weapon systems.

Viraat moved into Cochin Shipyard's dry dock late in 2008 to undergo the mandatory maintenance refit and repair and it came back to service in Aug 2009. On 12 May 2009, INS Viraat would complete 23 years of its service with the Indian Navy. Taking into account its British Royal Navy service in its earlier avatar as HMS Hermes, the warship will complete 50 years on 18 November 2009.

INS Viraat, meaning giant in Sanskrit and which has a crew of 1,800 personnel, was docked at Cochin Shipyard Ltd for the past year for repair and maintenance The refit will increase the aircraft carrier’s sea life with the Indian Navy till 2015.

The Indian Navy has suspended flights of its fleet of carrier-based Sea Harrier fighter jets following a fatal crash of one of the aircraft off Goa in August 2009 . Viraat is fitted with a ‘ski jump’ enabling the Sea Harrier VSTOL jump jets to take off from the flight deck with greater payload. The carrier would also have Sea King helicopters embarked for providing anti-submarine cover

“The Sea Harriers have been grounded following the crash that left a fighter pilot dead,” the Times of India newspaper quoted Navy officials as saying.The 10 Sea Harrier jump jets will remain on an airfield in the Goa province until the probe into the crash is completed, the officials said. Following a series of crashes since induction, the Navy is now left with just 10 Sea Harriers of the over 20 it had bought in mid-1980s

The decision to ground the Sea Harriers leaves India’s only aircraft carrier, the Viraat, practically without air power.The 50-year-old Viraat recently left dry dock at the Cochin Shipyard following an 18-month comprehensive refit, and is expected to become fully operational in two months.

The Viraat was fitted at state-owned Cochin Shipyard with new fire control equipment, navigation radars, improved nuclear, biological and chemical protection, and deck landing aids. The ship's Russian-made Kashtan air defense system was sent to Russia for repair.

The aircraft carrier also has been fitted with the Israeli Barak air defense system and the anti-ship cruise missile BrahMos.The Navy's long-term plans include a blue water force with six aircraft carriers and improvements in littoral warfare capabilities.

INS Viraat originally was commissioned in the British Royal Navy as HMS Hermes in 1959; India bought the vessel in 1986. The aircraft carrier earlier underwent a refit in 1999-2001.

Displacement: 28,700 tons full load
Dimensions: 650 x 90 x 29 feet/198 x 27.4 x 8.8 meters
Extreme Dimensions: 744 x 160 x 29 feet/226.7 x 48.8 x 8.8 meters
Propulsion: Steam turbines, 4 boilers, 2 shafts, 76,000 shp, 28 knots
Crew: 1830 + 270 air group
Speed: 28 Knots. Armament: Ten 40mm AA guns and eight SAM missile launchers arranged in two sets of four. Aircraft: 28.

Concept/Program: An ex-RN light fleet carrier, initially completed to an extensively modernized design and later converted to a VSTOL carrier, purchased upon retirement from RN service. This ship was probably meant to replace the ailing Vikrant, although that ship remained nominally in service for another decade. Now India's only carrier.

Design: Fitted with an angled deck, but the takeoff path is oriented axially; there is a skijump at the bow.

Operational: The ship is in reasonably good condition, but will require replacement by 2007-2010.after refit will stay till 2015.

India had decided to buy the Harriers in the mid-1970s as part of its efforts to build a blue water navy, while their actual deliveries began in 1983. India purchased 30 Sea Harriers in 1983, using 25 of these for operational flying and the remaining to train pilots. Since then seven pilots have died in 17 crashes involving the Sea Harrier and more than half of the fleet is now gone, lost mostly to routine sorties. Another Sea Harrier was been lost in 21 August 2009 killing the pilot. This brings the fleet to 11 aircraft. All the 11 fighters have been grounded until further checks

Beginning 1983, Navy had inducted around 30 Sea Harriers, which take off from the angled ski-jump on INS Viraat and land vertically on its deck. But it has lost over half of them in accidents.

The remaining have undergone a "limited upgrade'' under a Rs 477-crore project, which includes Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 multi-mode fire control radar and Derby beyond visual range air-to-air missilesThe Indian Navy plans to use the Sea Harriers till around 2020.

Engines for Indian Sea Harriers were supplied by Rolls Royce while the aircraft have been maintained and upgraded - as prime contractor - by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

INDIA arms industry is full of scandals and looting Mela as like Pakistan Air craft carrier with out air power is not joke? it is going to station in ADEN next month.:taz:
Usman karim lmno25@hotmail.com
 
Last edited:
.
This is old news. It was voluntarily grounded for a week in honor of a late navy personnel.
 
.
This is old news. It was voluntarily grounded for a week in honor of a late navy personnel.

WE CAN DISCUSS THAT OLD NEWS TOO? Basic reason to disucc that matter is corruption in the procument of air craft carrier ,four services refit is done to that air craft carrier ,why india Govt spending a huge amount on a white elephant (a lion with out teeth).just to show the world india has a aircraft carrier ship,sAME PROBLEM WITH OTHER TWO which are going to induct in 2015- 2017 ,
 
.
This is old news. It was voluntarily grounded for a week in honor of a late navy personnel.
WE CAN DISCUSS THAT OLD NEWS TOO?

Definately we can discuess old new, and why should'nt we. Forums are for discuessing these things.

Basic reason to disucc that matter is corruption in the procument of air craft carrier ,four services refit is done to that air craft carrier ,why india Govt spending a huge amount on a white elephant (a lion with out teeth).just to show the world india has a aircraft carrier ship,sAME PROBLEM WITH OTHER TWO which are going to induct in 2015- 2017 ,

Corruption is there in most of the deals happening and most of the countries are no exception it that. And as for GOI sepending huge amount on AC so that it can get have AC till it get other AC's in serivce. And for the fact, its for the purpose of safe guarding countires water boundries, and hope thats not showing but its the Necessity.
 
.
This is old news. It was voluntarily grounded for a week in honor of a late navy personnel.

WE CAN DISCUSS THAT OLD NEWS TOO? Basic reason to disucc that matter is corruption in the procument of air craft carrier ,four services refit is done to that air craft carrier ,why india Govt spending a huge amount on a white elephant (a lion with out teeth).just to show the world india has a aircraft carrier ship,sAME PROBLEM WITH OTHER TWO which are going to induct in 2015- 2017 ,
Usman, sorry I had not read your article completely earlier and replied under presumption of the other news of grounded sea harriers for a week by India.

Coming to your point, I agree with you on the corruption in defense procurements. Totally agree. To address that, govt has mandated that now all defense procurements have to go through thorough reviews. hence all these delays in all procurements. To give you an indication, the procurement of phalcon AWACS we just started receiving was initiated in 1985!

Also, generally speaking, around the world (including developed countries) defense deals are marred with corruptions and commissions. They have a white colored name for it - lobbying, commission etc. Its a different thing that its a bit overdone in India.
 
.
A tiger without teeth.
Air craft carrier with out Air power.
Warships normally have a operational life of 30 years after which they are invariably decommissioned. It is to the credit of the Indian Navy that the steam propulsion Viraat is still materially operational for Sea Harrier flying.

The Harriers are also aging and being selectively upgraded by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) with new Elta 2032 radars and Derby missiles (Grounded in UK 2006.)four services refit has done from it’s induction in India navy.

HMS Hermes was laid down before the end of WWII but was only completed in 1959 after many changes in design to accommodate the new jet aircraft. When the new Sea Harrier came into operation she was given a special ramp to allow her to operate the new aircraft. She was flagship in the Falkland's conflict in 1982 and only two years later put into reserve and subsequently sold to India.

India's maritime ambitions of the 21st Century are premised on a balanced fleet of surface ships which includes a three aircraft carrier fleet, two dozen conventional and nuclear powered submarines and more than 100 aerial assets including UAVs to support the fleet.

INS Viraat originally was commissioned in the British Royal Navy as: HMS Hermes in 1959; India bought the vessel in 1986. It was commissioned as INS VIRAAT on 12 May 1987. The aircraft carrier earlier underwent a refit in 1999-2001. It completed a major refit at Cochin Shipyards from 1999 through April 2001. This refit extended the ship's service life until 2010 and included upgrades to the ship's propulsion systems, its radar suite, communications systems, elevator upgrades, and new weapon systems.

In September 1993, the engine room of Viraat was flooded, temporarily putting the vessel out of service. By 1995, the vessel was back with a new search radar.
Apart from some major and minor refits at different times, including one in 2006, INS Viraat underwent an extensive life-extension refit in 1999-2000, with new and upgraded propulsion, sensors, sonar, radars, weapons, communication and flood-control systems.

Flagship of the Indian Navy, INS Viraat (R-22) put into major refit in late 2003 and took more than a year to become fighting fit again. The 45-year-old carrier was in dry-dock at Kochi for most of the year. Elaborate repairs and refitting had to be carried out on India's lone aircraft carrier in dry dock to keep it going

This refit extended the ship's service life until 2010 and included upgrades to the ship's propulsion systems, its radar suite, communications systems, elevator upgrades, and new weapon systems.

Viraat moved into Cochin Shipyard's dry dock late in 2008 to undergo the mandatory maintenance refit and repair and it came back to service in Aug 2009. On 12 May 2009, INS Viraat would complete 23 years of its service with the Indian Navy. Taking into account its British Royal Navy service in its earlier avatar as HMS Hermes, the warship will complete 50 years on 18 November 2009.

INS Viraat, meaning giant in Sanskrit and which has a crew of 1,800 personnel, was docked at Cochin Shipyard Ltd for the past year for repair and maintenance The refit will increase the aircraft carrier’s sea life with the Indian Navy till 2015.

The Indian Navy has suspended flights of its fleet of carrier-based Sea Harrier fighter jets following a fatal crash of one of the aircraft off Goa in August 2009 . Viraat is fitted with a ‘ski jump’ enabling the Sea Harrier VSTOL jump jets to take off from the flight deck with greater payload. The carrier would also have Sea King helicopters embarked for providing anti-submarine cover

“The Sea Harriers have been grounded following the crash that left a fighter pilot dead,” the Times of India newspaper quoted Navy officials as saying.The 10 Sea Harrier jump jets will remain on an airfield in the Goa province until the probe into the crash is completed, the officials said. Following a series of crashes since induction, the Navy is now left with just 10 Sea Harriers of the over 20 it had bought in mid-1980s

The decision to ground the Sea Harriers leaves India’s only aircraft carrier, the Viraat, practically without air power.The 50-year-old Viraat recently left dry dock at the Cochin Shipyard following an 18-month comprehensive refit, and is expected to become fully operational in two months.

The Viraat was fitted at state-owned Cochin Shipyard with new fire control equipment, navigation radars, improved nuclear, biological and chemical protection, and deck landing aids. The ship's Russian-made Kashtan air defense system was sent to Russia for repair.

The aircraft carrier also has been fitted with the Israeli Barak air defense system and the anti-ship cruise missile BrahMos.The Navy's long-term plans include a blue water force with six aircraft carriers and improvements in littoral warfare capabilities.

INS Viraat originally was commissioned in the British Royal Navy as HMS Hermes in 1959; India bought the vessel in 1986. The aircraft carrier earlier underwent a refit in 1999-2001.

Displacement: 28,700 tons full load
Dimensions: 650 x 90 x 29 feet/198 x 27.4 x 8.8 meters
Extreme Dimensions: 744 x 160 x 29 feet/226.7 x 48.8 x 8.8 meters
Propulsion: Steam turbines, 4 boilers, 2 shafts, 76,000 shp, 28 knots
Crew: 1830 + 270 air group
Speed: 28 Knots. Armament: Ten 40mm AA guns and eight SAM missile launchers arranged in two sets of four. Aircraft: 28.

Concept/Program: An ex-RN light fleet carrier, initially completed to an extensively modernized design and later converted to a VSTOL carrier, purchased upon retirement from RN service. This ship was probably meant to replace the ailing Vikrant, although that ship remained nominally in service for another decade. Now India's only carrier.

Design: Fitted with an angled deck, but the takeoff path is oriented axially; there is a skijump at the bow.

Operational: The ship is in reasonably good condition, but will require replacement by 2007-2010.after refit will stay till 2015.

India had decided to buy the Harriers in the mid-1970s as part of its efforts to build a blue water navy, while their actual deliveries began in 1983. India purchased 30 Sea Harriers in 1983, using 25 of these for operational flying and the remaining to train pilots. Since then seven pilots have died in 17 crashes involving the Sea Harrier and more than half of the fleet is now gone, lost mostly to routine sorties. Another Sea Harrier was been lost in 21 August 2009 killing the pilot. This brings the fleet to 11 aircraft. All the 11 fighters have been grounded until further checks

Beginning 1983, Navy had inducted around 30 Sea Harriers, which take off from the angled ski-jump on INS Viraat and land vertically on its deck. But it has lost over half of them in accidents.

The remaining have undergone a "limited upgrade'' under a Rs 477-crore project, which includes Israeli Elta EL/M-2032 multi-mode fire control radar and Derby beyond visual range air-to-air missilesThe Indian Navy plans to use the Sea Harriers till around 2020.

Engines for Indian Sea Harriers were supplied by Rolls Royce while the aircraft have been maintained and upgraded - as prime contractor - by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL).

INDIA arms industry is full of scandals and looting Mela as like Pakistan Air craft carrier with out air power is not joke? it is going to station in ADEN next month.:taz:
Usman karim lmno25@hotmail.com
Where is the link for this article.
 
.
Parveen i would like to ask you ? you do not agree with our point of view we want discussion here why indian GOVT spending huge tax payer money on defense,india is going to spend some $40 billion dollars just to modern his navy during next 10 yrs ,if india spend that money to eradicate poverty ,helath and housing , education imagine the cloud of war in south asia will finshed ,peace and stabilty in region will come .
 
.
Where is the link for this article.

I wouldnt ask for a link.. Coz most of the news in that blog seems genuine enough. It true that we have a WW2 aircraft carrier which has been rigged up to be in working condition till now and its not a big surprise that the Harriers are failing too.. Remember that they are the only Carrier borne Aircrafts which India has and imagine how much it must have been used. and scams in defence procurement is old news too.
 
.
Parveen i would like to ask you ? you do not agree with our point of view we want discussion here why indian GOVT spending huge tax payer money on defense,india is going to spend some $40 billion dollars just to modern his navy during next 10 yrs ,if india spend that money to eradicate poverty ,helath and housing , education imagine the cloud of war in south asia will finshed ,peace and stabilty in region will come .

Sir the reason is 3 fold:

a) India is undergoing a modernization program to bring it up to speed with international standards.....this is not just Pakistan specific as China, our other partner in dispute is modernizing at an incredible pace
b) We have the edge over Pakistan in conventional weapons....If we let this edge slip bye, we will be sitting ducks for the taking......surrounded from 2 sides....The reason we lost '62 war was because of the kind of mindset you speak of
c) As India gains more clout internationally and works towards becoming a superpower, it is essential that its military progresses with the economy.....We cannot let one area slip bye as it ends up becoming the weak link that enemies exploit

But very frankly, why not think on the same lines for Pakistan?? Why does Pakistan need to spend all the money on nukes, missiles, F-16s?
Dont you feel that if they spent their defence budget on humanitarian things....that there would be peace in the subcontinent?
It takes 2 to clap sir and poverty/lack of education etc is not a problem on this side of the border only!!
 
.
Parveen i would like to ask you ? you do not agree with our point of view we want discussion here why indian GOVT spending huge tax payer money on defense,india is going to spend some $40 billion dollars just to modern his navy during next 10 yrs ,if india spend that money to eradicate poverty ,helath and housing , education imagine the cloud of war in south asia will finshed ,peace and stabilty in region will come .

With strength comes security and with security comes stability.So strength and security are in high priority right now for the nation
 
.
I wouldnt ask for a link.. Coz most of the news in that blog seems genuine enough. It true that we have a WW2 aircraft carrier which has been rigged up to be in working condition till now
It has been rigged and used continuosly so that we will ot lose the technical ability to operate a carrier.Even if we have a goody it takes 10-20 years to gain good expertise over it

and its not a big surprise that the Harriers are failing too.. Remember that they are the only Carrier borne Aircrafts which India has and imagine how much it must have been used
.

I think they were used well in the 1971 war
and scams in defence procurement is old news too

Common in every part of the world

Pls think 5-10 years down the lane the money is worth it:cheers:
 
.
Back
Top Bottom