A Russia-China military alliance would be a bulwark against America’s global imperialism. Is it time for Washington to panic?

[FairAndUnbiased]

What they can do to the US?!!!! Don't you think that a lot of US resources is spent because the much of the Muslim world is hostile to the US? Sure the US won't topple, but it's not wise to confront the worlds second largest religion.

US chose to go there and was a direct attack.

All we'd be doing is signing a paper with Russia. Not attacking Turkey or even threatening Turkey.

And you somehow think that watching a Turkish TV show means that they like Turkey. Like I said, Hong Kong rioters and Taiwanese independence supporters all watch Chinese shows, listen to Chinese music, play Chinese video games... and still burn and riot.

 

[EGalois]

US chose to go there and was a direct attack.

All we'd be doing is signing a paper with Russia. Not attacking Turkey or even threatening Turkey.

And you somehow think that watching a Turkish TV show means that they like Turkey. Like I said, Hong Kong rioters and Taiwanese independence supporters all watch Chinese shows, listen to Chinese music, play Chinese video games... and still burn and riot.

"All we'd be doing is signing a paper with Russia. Not attacking Turkey or even threatening Turkey." Not sure if that's what Turkey would perceive. Plus, nothing good from Russia by signing the paper. Russia can't provide China with any meaningful military assistance. Russia is hated in a lot of countries in the world because of its own constant meddling into. You think the Syrians like Russia? No. The Iranians don't like Russia either. Russia is still viewed by much of the non-Western world as an imperial power. Absolutely NOTHING good if China aligns with Russia.

As I have said, there is a deeper reason why Turkish dramas are popular in the Muslim world. You don't understand it.

 

[retaxis]

I'm not. But I know better that Turkish soft power is widely admired in: Turkic countries, Pakistan, Algeria, Malaysia, Indonesia and even some Arabs who think their leaders are corrupt and they need to revive the Ummah.

First of all lets go to central asia.
central asians speak russian, have russian names, have russian military bases, have russian military pact CSTO and China as largest trading partner by far. China and Russia has their foot down on Central Asia and they won't let Turkey or anyone else in that area.

second Turkey is probably second to arabs and iranians in their own area middle east let alone vying for power as some sort of ummah. Its ridiculous to even think of that unless your some pan turkish person.

Thirdly as countries become richer and more advanced, they become less religious (in 99% of cases). Western Europe, China, Japan etc. Embracing science and advancements in many ways reduces the level of religiousness.

And lastly you know Russia is 1/4 Muslim right? They have tens of millions of muslims left over from their soviet days in the caucuses and muslim migrants from Central Asia.

 

[JackFell]

First of all lets go to central asia.
central asians speak russian, have russian names, have russian military bases, have russian military pact CSTO and China as largest trading partner by far. China and Russia has their foot down on Central Asia and they won't let Turkey or anyone else in that area.

second Turkey is probably second to arabs and iranians in their own area middle east let alone vying for power as some sort of ummah. Its ridiculous to even think of that unless your some pan turkish person.

Thirdly as countries become richer and more advanced, they become less religious (in 99% of cases). Western Europe, China, Japan etc. Embracing science and advancements in many ways reduces the level of religiousness.

And lastly you know Russia is 1/4 Muslim right? They have tens of millions of muslims left over from their soviet days in the caucuses and muslim migrants from Central Asia.

This is an exaggeration, Russia is no more than 10% Muslim.

 

[EGalois]

First of all lets go to central asia.
central asians speak russian, have russian names, have russian military bases, have russian military pact CSTO and China as largest trading partner by far. China and Russia has their foot down on Central Asia and they won't let Turkey or anyone else in that area.

second Turkey is probably second to arabs and iranians in their own area middle east let alone vying for power as some sort of ummah. Its ridiculous to even think of that unless your some pan turkish person.

Thirdly as countries become richer and more advanced, they become less religious (in 99% of cases). Western Europe, China, Japan etc. Embracing science and advancements in many ways reduces the level of religiousness.

And lastly you know Russia is 1/4 Muslim right? They have tens of millions of muslims left over from their soviet days in the caucuses and muslim migrants from Central Asia.

1.Not any more. Many central Asian countries are de-russifying themselves.
2. Like it or not, Turkey is the most advanced economy in the Muslim world. It has modern infrastructure and a modern military. Turkey might be weak compared to European powers or China or the US, but it's widely admired in the Muslim world, even by Muslim immigrants in the West.
3. I don't know how is this relevant even if it's true. Muslims countries, Turkey included, are not economic or technological power houses, sure. But does this mean one should antagonize them? No.
4. Nonsense, only 10 percent Russians are Muslims. And don't expect them to like the current Russian government, which is heavily pro-Orthodox and Slavic nationalist.

 

[retaxis]

This is an exaggeration, Russia is no more than 10% Muslim.

I swore somewhere said they are up to 25% on illegal muslim and muslim immigrants but i will take your word for it. Never the less Russia owns Central Asia and shares it with China. No way even America is getting in on that action.

1.Not any more. Many central Asian countries are de-russifying themselves.
2. Like it or not, Turkey is the most advanced economy in the Muslim world. It has modern infrastructure and a modern military. Turkey might be weak compared to European powers or China or the US, but it's widely admired in the Muslim world, even by Muslim immigrants in the West.
3. I don't know how is this relevant even if it's true. Muslims countries, Turkey included, are not economic or technological power houses, sure. But does this mean one should antagonize them? No.
4. Nonsense, only 10 percent Russians are Muslims. And don't expect them to like the current Russian government, which is heavily pro-Orthodox and Slavic nationalist.

You need to get Turkey out of your head. They are far less influencial than the Saudis for the muslim world. You sure your not a Turk? Sound awfully like one.

 

[EGalois]

I swore somewhere said they are up to 25% on illegal muslim and muslim immigrants but i will take your word for it. Never the less Russia owns Central Asia and shares it with China. No way even America is getting in on that action.

Nobody 'owns' Central Asia. Russian influence in Central Asia is dwindling. China is becoming more influential because Central Asian countries themselves decide its to their own economic benefits.
The age of 'spheres of influence' is long gone. Central Asian countries are independent sovereign states. They don't have to fall into anyone's sphere of influence.

 

[retaxis]

Nobody 'owns' Central Asia. Russian influence in Central Asia is dwindling. China is becoming more influential because Central Asian countries themselves decide its to their own economic benefits.
The age of 'spheres of influence' is long gone. Central Asian countries are independent sovereign states. They don't have to fall into anyone's sphere of influence.

Russia pretty much puts whatever strong man that suits them in power into central asia. Pretty sure thats owning them right there.

Plus you have been outted as A turk, better change your country back to Turkey kid.

 

[EGalois]

Russia pretty much puts whatever strong man that suits them in power into central asia. Pretty sure thats owning them right there.

Plus you have been outted as A turk, better change your country back to Turkey kid.

I'm not a Turk. I'm Chinese and I make argument for China's interest.
What's China's long-term interest? It's not aligning with one country against another. Its' to build a multipolar and multilateral world order so that free trade can benefit, which China has the lion's share. A military alliance with Russia will only damage this effort. And to build a multilateral world order, China needs the goodwill of the Muslim world, which Turkey has strong influence on.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

"All we'd be doing is signing a paper with Russia. Not attacking Turkey or even threatening Turkey." Not sure if that's what Turkey would perceive. Plus, nothing good from Russia by signing the paper. Russia can't provide China with any meaningful military assistance. Russia is hated in a lot of countries in the world because of its own constant meddling into. You think the Syrians like Russia? No. The Iranians don't like Russia either. Russia is still viewed by much of the non-Western world as an imperial power. Absolutely NOTHING good if China aligns with Russia.

As I have said, there is a deeper reason why Turkish dramas are popular in the Muslim world. You don't understand it.

so what? From the link I gave you, Turks already hate China and yet there's nothing they can do about us anyhow. What are they gonna do, hate us more? They're gonna impotently protest at us? Stamp their feet?

1.Not any more. Many central Asian countries are de-russifying themselves.
2. Like it or not, Turkey is the most advanced economy in the Muslim world. It has modern infrastructure and a modern military. Turkey might be weak compared to European powers or China or the US, but it's widely admired in the Muslim world, even by Muslim immigrants in the West.
3. I don't know how is this relevant even if it's true. Muslims countries, Turkey included, are not economic or technological power houses, sure. But does this mean one should antagonize them? No.
4. Nonsense, only 10 percent Russians are Muslims. And don't expect them to like the current Russian government, which is heavily pro-Orthodox and Slavic nationalist.

There's no "muslim economy", the products that sell in the UAE don't sell in Afghanistan and vice versa. They don't share the same regulatory framework. What matters for markets is regulatory framework, currency and technological sophistication. Russia has semiconductor fabs, software companies and pretty much every 21st century industry inside a single regulatory market. Turkey doesn't have any of that.

If signing a piece of paper with Russia, a neighbor of China, antagonizes them, then so be it. It proves they can't be trusted to act with pragmatism. Can't be liked by everyone.

Russians like Chinese more than Turks and Chinese like Russians (in fact, Chinese only like Russians with more favorable than unfavorable), so public opinion in China is against you.

 

[EGalois]

so what? From the link I gave you, Turks already hate China and yet there's nothing they can do about us anyhow. What are they gonna do, hate us more? They're gonna impotently protest at us? Stamp their feet?



There's no "muslim economy", the products that sell in the UAE don't sell in Afghanistan and vice versa. They don't share the same regulatory framework. What matters for markets is regulatory framework, currency and technological sophistication. Russia has semiconductor fabs, software companies and pretty much every 21st century industry inside a single regulatory market. Turkey doesn't have any of that.

If signing a piece of paper with Russia, a neighbor of China, antagonizes them, then so be it. It proves they can't be trusted to act with pragmatism. Can't be liked by everyone.

Russians like Chinese more than Turks and Chinese like Russians (in fact, Chinese only like Russians with more favorable than unfavorable), so public opinion in China is against you.

Not really. China loves the Soviets, not the Russia today.

Turkey certainly can't beat China in a military conflict, but they can sway the public opinion in the Muslim world.

"Russia has semiconductor fabs, software companies and pretty much every 21st century industry inside a single regulatory market." Russia doesn't have anything competitive in the international market either. Their industry, save for arms and gas, is nothing. There's just nothing of benefit for a military alliance with Russia to offset the damage done to the credibility of China's claim to a multipolar, non-confrontational world order.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Not really. China loves the Soviets, not the Russia today.

Turkey certainly can't beat China in a military conflict, but they can sway the public opinion in the Muslim world.

"Russia has semiconductor fabs, software companies and pretty much every 21st century industry inside a single regulatory market." Russia doesn't have anything competitive in the international market either. Their industry, save for arms and gas, is nothing. There's just nothing of benefit for a military alliance with Russia to offset the damage done to the credibility of China's claim to a multipolar, non-confrontational world order.

Russia has a large domestic market and captive markets in central Asia. Turkey has literally nothing. They don't even have their domestic market.

I also offered proof that Chinese like Russians from a reputable source. You have yet to offer any proof of your claims. Why do you keep lying? You think that just asserting yourself over and over like Trump works here?

 

[EGalois]

Russia has a large domestic market and captive markets in central Asia. Turkey has literally nothing. They don't even have their domestic market.

I also offered proof that Chinese like Russians from a reputable source. You have yet to offer any proof of your claims. Why do you keep lying? You think that just asserting yourself over and over like Trump works here?

Really? Russia's policy so far is highly protective. They are even more open to EU investments than China's. Their cultural milieu is racist. And it's not really that great a market. it has a similar population with Turkey and a similar economy in terms of size.

Everyone in China remembers that Russia annexed a large chunk of Chinese territory in the 19th century, massacring the local population.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Really? Russia's policy so far is highly protective. They are even more open to EU investments than China's. Their cultural milieu is racist. And it's not really that great a market. it has a similar population with Turkey and a similar economy in terms of size.

Everyone in China remembers that Russia annexed a large chunk of Chinese territory in the 19th century, massacring the local population.

proof that there were any massacres during annexation? The treaty of 1858 specifically states that current inhabitants were to remain in the area even though Russia offered to pay for their deportation.

Treaty of Aigun - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Besides, the territory was outer manchuria which was kept as a nature preserve by the Qing nobles, with no Han allowed to enter. This was violated, but technically, Han shouldn't have even been there in the first place.

Manchuria under Qing rule - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

proof that Russia has higher investment barriers to China than EU?

Russia has 2x the GDP of Turkey.

 

[CatSultan]

USA is loosing its global power. It basically lost in Afghanistan. Russia and China have established themselves as super powers and USA is also loosing its grip over Europe. The only reason USA was powerful was because it was the only country in the world not affected by colonialism or the world wars and it had a big navy. Now as other countries are rebuilding themselves and no longer rely on the US Aid money, things are going to go bad for them. Added to this is the fact that the US dollar is only backed by her global power and that is fading. This is why I save in gold and not Dollar.