A Russia-China military alliance would be a bulwark against America’s global imperialism. Is it time for Washington to panic?

[EGalois]

Turkey is hated throughout the Muslim world actually. And so what if they like Turkey, and Turkey doesn't like Russia, and China is allied to Russia? Turkey gonna command them to hate Russia and somehow get them to hate China? Turkey can't even command them to hate Syria.

US is already making more alliances. There's nothing you can do to change their behavior. You can't appease someone who hates you. Let me ask you a question: if your family was being threatened by a thug who openly carries a gun in front of your house, leaves death threats, the police are doing nothing, will you say "I don't know if I should buy a gun or talk to my neighbors about it, what if he brings his entire gang?"

That's stupid and naive. Why are you still being the typical passive little Asian American doormat?

You must be kidding. Some Arab countries hate Turkey, sure. But most non-Arab Sunni Muslims view Turkey as the leader of the Muslim world. Turkey now is reviving the legacy of the Ottoman Caliphate, which is respected and honored widely across the Muslims world, as many Muslims view it as the last golden age of Islam.

Turkey is hated throughout the Muslim world actually. And so what if they like Turkey, and Turkey doesn't like Russia, and China is allied to Russia? Turkey gonna command them to hate Russia and somehow get them to hate China? Turkey can't even command them to hate Syria.

US is already making more alliances. There's nothing you can do to change their behavior. You can't appease someone who hates you. Let me ask you a question: if your family was being threatened by a thug who openly carries a gun in front of your house, leaves death threats, the police are doing nothing, will you say "I don't know if I should buy a gun or talk to my neighbors about it, what if he brings his entire gang?"

That's stupid and naive. Why are you still being the typical passive little Asian American doormat?

Whether US can successfully make new alliance against China depends on whether China has amicable relations with those countries. Making a military alliance with Russia will only be a burden.

Don't be a stupid Asian nationalist. I am saying it from the point of view of China as a state, not for all ethnic Chinese. What oversea Chinese think is essentially irrelevant to the interests of China.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You must be kidding. Some Arab countries hate Turkey, sure. But most non-Arab Sunni Muslims view Turkey as the leader of the Muslim world.

Proof of any of your claims?

Being seen as too friendly with Turkey is also toxic. China has far more ties with Greece, which is anti-Turkey.

There is no evidence that China cares exceptionally more about Turkey than other countries. Turkey is militarily, technologically and economically weaker than Russia. France has pledged support for Greece against Turkey, is France less important than Turkey too? Russia is a neighbor, Turkey isn't. Turkey does less trade with China. Turkish people have lower opinions of China.

 

[EGalois]

Proof of any of your claims?

Being seen as too friendly with Turkey is also toxic. China has far more ties with Greece, which is anti-Turkey.

There is no evidence that China cares exceptionally more about Turkey than other countries. Turkey is militarily, technologically and economically weaker than Russia. France has pledged support for Greece against Turkey, is France less important than Turkey too? Russia is a neighbor, Turkey isn't. Turkey does less trade with China. Turkish people have lower opinions of China.

You just need to ask any Pakistani on the forum, ask them how they view Turkey. Do you know Ertugrul? Turkish dramas are widely watched across the Muslim world, so much so that the Egyptian authority has to issue a fatwa banning Ertugrul.

I am not saying China should take the side of Turkey, but that China should always stick to the side of UN and international law. In the Armenia-Azerbaijian conflict, international law supports the Azeri claim, not the Armenian. It is therefore impossible for China to support Armenia.

However, if China does enter into an alliance with Russia, what would be China's position if Russia openly fights on the side of Armenia? Russia also has troubles with Turkey, and mind you, France as well in Syria. Russia is a decadent gas station masqueraded as a country that fuels itself with self-destructing Russo-nationalism. We do have many common interests with Russia and we should cooperate on those issues, but definitely not engage in a military alliance.

Russia is not a reliable long-term friend. And the same with Iran. It's Ok to cooperate with these countries on SOME international issues and the economy, but China should never be their ally nor align with them politically or militarily.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You just need to ask any Pakistani on the forum, ask them how they view Turkey. Do you know Ertugrul? Turkish dramas are widely watched across the Muslim world, so much so that the Egyptian authority has to issue a fatwa banning Ertugrul.

I am not saying China should take the side of Turkey, but that China should always stick to the side of UN and international law. In the Armenia-Azerbaijian conflict, international law supports the Azeri claim, not the Armenian. It is therefore impossible for China to support Armenia.

However, if China does enter into an alliance with Russia, what would be China's position if Russia openly fights on the side of Armenia? Russia also has troubles with Turkey, and mind you, France as well in Syria. Russia is a decadent gas station masqueraded as a country that fuels itself with self-destructing Russo-nationalism. We do have many common interests with Russia and we should cooperate on those issues, but definitely not engage in a military alliance.

Russia is not a reliable long-term friend. And the same with Iran. It's Ok to cooperate with these countries on SOME international issues and the economy, but China should never be their ally nor align with them politically or militarily.

So what if they watch some Turkish TV? The most googled TV show in 2018 was Story of Yanxi Palace even though Google is blocked in China, indicating foreign success. Most came from Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, etc. The same Hong Kong that erupted in protests in 2018. TV doesn't mean jack shit.

China's position in that case would be China urges a swift end to the conflict with minimal loss of life. Any potential alliance with Russia would simply be a non-aggression pact + homeland defense, same as NATO. It can be strictly defined to geographic boundaries, just like NATO. China benefits from this just as much as Russia. China does not have to take sides just as US does not take sides in NATO. Did US intervene for NATO ally Portugal when India, a Soviet ally, invaded Goa, a legal part of metropolitan Portugal? Did US intervene when Turkey actually invaded Greek territory in the 1970's?

Funny how you say Russia is a decadent gas station, but Russia still has more semiconductor fabs and software companies than Turkey which has 0 semiconductor fabs and no major software companies that I know of. I don't know of many Turkish brands. And even being a gas station: can Turkey even develop its own oil/gas reserves the way Russia can?

 

[EGalois]

So what if they watch some Turkish TV? The most googled TV show in 2018 was Story of Yanxi Palace even though Google is blocked in China, indicating foreign success. Most came from Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, etc. The same Hong Kong that erupted in protests in 2018. TV doesn't mean jack shit.

China's position in that case would be China urges a swift end to the conflict with minimal loss of life. Any potential alliance with Russia would simply be a non-aggression pact + homeland defense, same as NATO. It can be strictly defined to geographic boundaries, just like NATO. China benefits from this just as much as Russia. China does not have to take sides just as US does not take sides in NATO. Did US intervene for NATO ally Portugal when India, a Soviet ally, invaded Goa, a legal part of metropolitan Portugal? Did US intervene when Turkey actually invaded Greek territory in the 1970's?

Funny how you say Russia is a decadent gas station, but Russia still has more semiconductor fabs and software companies than Turkey which has 0 semiconductor fabs and no major software companies that I know of. I don't know of many Turkish brands. And even being a gas station: can Turkey even develop its own oil/gas reserves the way Russia can?

You are too naive about how the international community would perceive the nature of such an alliance. A military alliance, even if a defensive one, would be perceived as militarily aligned with Russia.

Not sure how many people in the Muslim world watch Chinese dramas. Not many. Many more watch Turkish drama.

"Funny how you say Russia is a decadent gas station, but Russia still has more semiconductor fabs and software companies than Turkey which has 0 semiconductor fabs and no major software companies that I know of. I don't know of many Turkish brands. And even being a gas station: can Turkey even develop its own oil/gas reserves the way Russia can?"
It's irrelevant. China doesn't need Russian chips anyway.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

You are too naive about how the international community would perceive the nature of such an alliance. A military alliance, even if a defensive one, would be perceived as militarily aligned with Russia.

Not sure how many people in the Muslim world watch Chinese dramas. Not many. Many more watch Turkish drama.

"Funny how you say Russia is a decadent gas station, but Russia still has more semiconductor fabs and software companies than Turkey which has 0 semiconductor fabs and no major software companies that I know of. I don't know of many Turkish brands. And even being a gas station: can Turkey even develop its own oil/gas reserves the way Russia can?"
It's irrelevant. China doesn't need Russian chips anyway.

What does China need from Turkey? Nothing. Why do we need to care about the Muslim world's view of Turkey when we have Iran and Saudi Arabia? By your logic, why do we need to risk relations with Greece and the rest of the EU for Turkey?

I am showing you that watching TV or playing video games =/= political agreement. Hong Kongers and Taiwanese can watch Longest Day in Chang'an, cheer for RNG in League of Legends, listen to Jackson Wang, text on a OnePlus phone and play Genshin Impact... right before picking up a brick to smash some mainland owned stores or marching for a pan-Green rally.

Here's the other thing: China doesn't need Russian chips, but Russian fabs may buy Chinese chemicals, equipment, software, etc. They can offer insights into non-traditional fab processes that they've come up with. They may license Chinese tech which helps spread Chinese tech standards. They can serve as distributors for Chinese fabs or sub-contractors. Russian software companies can partner with Chinese companies to distribute localized Chinese software. What deeper economic value can Turkey add beyond just buying/selling?

 

[EGalois]

What does China need from Turkey? Nothing. Why do we need to care about the Muslim world's view of Turkey when we have Iran and Saudi Arabia? By your logic, why do we need to risk relations with Greece and the rest of the EU for Turkey?

I am showing you that watching TV or playing video games =/= political agreement. Hong Kongers and Taiwanese can watch Longest Day in Chang'an, cheer for RNG in League of Legends, listen to Jackson Wang, text on a OnePlus phone and play Genshin Impact... right before picking up a brick to smash some mainland owned stores or marching for a pan-Green rally.

Here's the other thing: China doesn't need Russian chips, but Russian fabs may buy Chinese chemicals, equipment, software, etc. They can offer insights into non-traditional fab processes that they've come up with. They may license Chinese tech which helps spread Chinese tech standards. They can serve as distributors for Chinese fabs or sub-contractors. Russian software companies can partner with Chinese companies to distribute localized Chinese software. What deeper economic value can Turkey add beyond just buying/selling?

China needs Turkey's at least non-hostility in the Muslim world. It's much more important than anything Russia could offer.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

China needs Turkey's at least non-hostility in the Muslim world. It's much more important than anything Russia could offer.

prove it. Turkey can't even influence Saudi or Iran.

 

[EGalois]

prove it. Turkey can't even influence Saudi or Iran.

Iran is Shi'a. And Saudi is widely viewed in the Muslim world as a US puppet.
To prove it: just google 'Turkey' on this forum and see how people talk about Turkey.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

Iran is Shi'a. And Saudi is widely viewed in the Muslim world as a US puppet.
To prove it: just google 'Turkey' on this forum and see how people talk about Turkey.

So what? This is just regular people. They can support Turkey with all their hearts, what good does it do? What is the end result?

China is a treaty ally of North Korea, China didn't even recognize South Korea until 1992, and yet today China is South Korea's largest trading partner.

Koreans got over it, they will too.

 

[EGalois]

So what? This is just regular people. They can support Turkey with all their hearts, what good does it do? What is the end result?

China is a treaty ally of North Korea, China didn't even recognize South Korea until 1992, and yet today China is South Korea's largest trading partner.

Koreans got over it, they will too.

They won't. Koreans are largely secular, Muslims are not. You seriously lack an understanding of the Muslim world. If the majority of Sunni Muslims believe that Turkey is reviving the Ummah, then any confrontation with Turkey would be perceived as a confrontation with the Muslim world.
No politician can be free from the pressure of his constituency.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

They won't. You seriously lack an understanding of the Muslim world.

If they don't get over it, what's the worst they can do?

They don't like the US, what can they do to the US?

 

[EGalois]

If they don't get over it, what's the worst they can do?

They don't like the US, what can they do to the US?

What they can do to the US?!!!! Don't you think that a lot of US resources is spent because the much of the Muslim world is hostile to the US? Sure the US won't topple, but it's not wise to confront the worlds second largest religion.

 

[retaxis]

They won't. Koreans are largely secular, Muslims are not. You seriously lack an understanding of the Muslim world. If the majority of Sunni Muslims believe that Turkey is reviving the Ummah, then any confrontation with Turkey would be perceived as a confrontation with the Muslim world.
No politician can be free from the pressure of his constituency.

You think this forum represent global views or something then you are very wrongfully mistaken. Turkey isn't even dominant in its own region let alone the world. Saudi, Iran, Israel, Turkey, Egypt all fighting and clamoring for power in the middle east. Here you talk like Turkey is some super power. Are you some pan turkist person acting like Chinese?

 

[EGalois]

You think this forum represent global views or something then you are very wrongfully mistaken. Turkey isn't even dominant in its own region let alone the world. Saudi, Iran, Israel, Turkey, Egypt all fighting and clamoring for power in the middle east. Here you talk like Turkey is some super power. Are you some pan turkist person acting like Chinese?

I'm not. But I know better that Turkish soft power is widely admired in: Turkic countries, Pakistan, Algeria, Malaysia, Indonesia and even some Arabs who think their leaders are corrupt and they need to revive the Ummah.