A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

[jamahir]

Because referendum is already complete

Pakistan , added Northern Regions with Pakistan
Sikh did their own referendum

Case closed

Complete as per you ? But did Imran Khan declare it so ? Did the Indian Establishment do so ? Did all the Kashmiris themselves do so ?

 

[adelphi]

What stops you from trying out ?

Nothing

 

[nahtanbob]

Nothing

you have not done it ... that speaks volumes

 

[adelphi]

you have not done it ... that speaks volumes

56% done .... rest work in progress.

 

[Vanamali]

56% done .... rest work in progress.

How much you took from Independent India?? Sq km would suffice hero

 

[adelphi]

How much you took from Independent India?? Sq km would suffice hero

All & ruled it over 450 years.

 

[MultaniGuy]

Back in the 1960s someone mentioned the Chenab formula as a compromise.

India get most of Jammu (land south of the Chenab river) while Pakistan gets some of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh.

But ofcourse India wouldn't even accept that compromise.
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Sikandar defends ‘Chenab formula’
Published May 24, 2003

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MUZAFFARABAD, May 23: AJK Prime Minister Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan on Thursday said the Kashmiris on either side of the Line of Control would not accept the status quo and called upon India and Pakistan to seriously consider the division of the region with River Chenab marking the boundary.
“I hope that India and Pakistan will give a serious consideration to this proposal to end the sufferings of the Kashmiris in particular and of their own people in general and thus materialize the long cherished hope of durable peace in the region,” he told Dawn here.
According to the proposal, Muslim majority areas on the right of the Chenab River would go to Pakistan and the rest to India. The prime minister said “he was inspired by the recent peace initiatives by India and Pakistan to float the idea,” which had been coming under discussion officially and unofficially between the countries since the early 1960s.
Stating that he had not specifically called for the partition on religious lines, the prime minister, however, pointed out that River Chenab provided a natural partition of Kashmir into Muslim and non-Muslim population zones.

“If we effect that division, it will be an honourable and amicable solution to the longstanding dispute,” he said.
The ‘Chenab formula’ was for the first time discussed between India and Pakistan in 1962-63, but the negotiations could not make any headway.
Of late, the founder of the Washington-based Kashmir Study Group of politicians and academics, Farooq Kathwari, had been working on the plan.
According to former foreign secretary Niaz A. Naik, the proposal had been discussed during the unofficial efforts to normalize relations between Islamabad and New Delhi, known as track-II diplomacy, and Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee “had also evinced interest in it.”
“This is not a new theory, nor am I the first one to have floated it. Being a political student, I am of the opinion that it is a viable solution,” Mr Hayat said.
He pointed out that over the past 56 years, Pakistan could not change the status of Kashmir neither could India satisfy the Kashmiris into accepting its rule over the region despite pooling money and using coercive measures.

Sikandar defends ‘Chenab formula’

MUZAFFARABAD, May 23: AJK Prime Minister Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan on Thursday said the Kashmiris on either side of...

www.dawn.com

 

[jamahir]

Back in the 1960s someone mentioned the Chenab formula as a compromise.

India get most of Jammu (land south of the Chenab river) while Pakistan gets some of Jammu, Kashmir and Ladakh.

But ofcourse India wouldn't even accept that compromise.
Search










Sikandar defends ‘Chenab formula’
Published May 24, 2003

Facebook Count

Twitter Share





0

MUZAFFARABAD, May 23: AJK Prime Minister Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan on Thursday said the Kashmiris on either side of the Line of Control would not accept the status quo and called upon India and Pakistan to seriously consider the division of the region with River Chenab marking the boundary.
“I hope that India and Pakistan will give a serious consideration to this proposal to end the sufferings of the Kashmiris in particular and of their own people in general and thus materialize the long cherished hope of durable peace in the region,” he told Dawn here.
According to the proposal, Muslim majority areas on the right of the Chenab River would go to Pakistan and the rest to India. The prime minister said “he was inspired by the recent peace initiatives by India and Pakistan to float the idea,” which had been coming under discussion officially and unofficially between the countries since the early 1960s.
Stating that he had not specifically called for the partition on religious lines, the prime minister, however, pointed out that River Chenab provided a natural partition of Kashmir into Muslim and non-Muslim population zones.

“If we effect that division, it will be an honourable and amicable solution to the longstanding dispute,” he said.
The ‘Chenab formula’ was for the first time discussed between India and Pakistan in 1962-63, but the negotiations could not make any headway.
Of late, the founder of the Washington-based Kashmir Study Group of politicians and academics, Farooq Kathwari, had been working on the plan.
According to former foreign secretary Niaz A. Naik, the proposal had been discussed during the unofficial efforts to normalize relations between Islamabad and New Delhi, known as track-II diplomacy, and Indian Prime Minister Atal Behari Vajpayee “had also evinced interest in it.”
“This is not a new theory, nor am I the first one to have floated it. Being a political student, I am of the opinion that it is a viable solution,” Mr Hayat said.
He pointed out that over the past 56 years, Pakistan could not change the status of Kashmir neither could India satisfy the Kashmiris into accepting its rule over the region despite pooling money and using coercive measures.

Sikandar defends ‘Chenab formula’

MUZAFFARABAD, May 23: AJK Prime Minister Sardar Sikandar Hayat Khan on Thursday said the Kashmiris on either side of...

www.dawn.com

You are right, the Indian Establishment and many citizens won't accept that proposal. So to get the debate started Pakistan should again put forward Musharraf's Four Point Formula and then both countries should look at a wider, region-scope progressive solution such as mine.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan
Written by: Jamahir
Category cloud: Opinion, analysis
​

India and Pakistan need to settle the long, sad but frankly immature dispute over Kashmir once and for all. Peacefully and politically. Both have similar social, economic and political problems so any nuanced and generic solution for one country can also be used by the other country. The prescribed solution by the UNO is impractical. As it involves, as far as I understand, India withdrawing military units stationed in India-administered Kashmir and then arranging for a plebiscite there while also accepting the UNO as a mediator. But the Indian Establishment believes, as also its foreign allies, that India-administered Kashmir is primarily a matter internal to India but since Pakistan cannot be wished away the matter should involve both countries settling the matter between themselves, peacefully and politically. But any such settlement should benefit both the countries immediately and in the long term.

Therefore I present one solution as below. The solution is based on Muammar Gaddafi's solution for Kashmir to which I have added some bits.

1. Both countries should adopt the same Progressive political system. Two separate, independent republics but with the same political system, much like what pre-2003 Iraq and Syria were with their same Ba'athist systems. The Progressive political system can be the Direct Democracy Socialism system that governed Libya until the 2011 war. Readers can refer to these pages to understand how this system works. This system is called the Third Universal Theory aka Jamahiriya theory. In India, a form of Direct Democracy called Swaraj is being implemented in Delhi by the ruling AAP party and is also being forwarded by the Swaraj Abhiyan movement and there is no reason why it cannot be extended to Pakistan as well.

2. Let Indian-administered Kashmir and Pakistani-administered Kashmir remain with their respective countries.

3. Convert the LoC into an International Border that is accessible for trade, tourism and family visits.

All this will make the separatists in India-administered Kashmir to understand that their desire to join Pakistan-administered Kashmir is unnecessary because both countries will have become the same, politically.

Furthermore, with separatist militancy reduced in Indian-administered Kashmir, what will remain is regressive religious militancy or activism which can be controlled and removed with social support by progressives among the local population. The side effect will also be a drastic removal of the current military force which will lead to more goodwill for the peace project.

I speak of the troubles and concerns of Muslims in Indian Kashmir and I will also speak of the troubles and concerns of the Kashmiri Pundit refugees. There must be something like Nelson Mandela's Truth and Reconciliation Commission. I would like the refugee Kashmiri Pandits to be allowed to return back to the Valley.

The next step would be resumption of the Aman Ki Asha peace mission as well as resumption of food and clothing festivals to be organized in both countries.

If not for such a solution, how long would the Establishments of India and Pakistan keep up with this cross-border hate? For another 50 years? 100? Until a reformed UNO decides to send in a military arbitrator force? And would the people of both countries not like the money and other resources spent by their respective militaries in positioning against each other to be spent on making each others countries a welfare state where there are things like high quality free medical system like in Cuba?

An important point is that the given solution will not only benefit the Kashmiri's but also will bring progress to India and Pakistan - socially, economically and politically.

Lastly, to extend a point about direct democracy socialism, It worked in Libya and it is being implemented in Venezuela ( the consejos comunales - communal councils ). Two different kinds of countries, ethnically and geographically. No reason why India and Pakistan cannot adopt the system given the fact that both countries have so much in common. And just Direct Democracy without the socialism part has been the system in Switzerland for long.

_______________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The post only represents writer's own point of views. The post do not represent point of views of Pakistan Defence management. Pakistan Defence Team will not be responsible for disagreements.
_______________________________________________________________________
Credits: The post is written by Jamahir, India. The proof reading and some other editing has been done by Think Tank Analyst, Forcetrip. The final formatting, editing and picture uploading is done by Slav Defence., Think Tank Vice Chairman.

The best solution is to merge India and Pakistan with China.

 

[jamahir]

The best solution is to merge India and Pakistan with China.

China is not a true Communist society to admire and think of merging India and Pakistan in it. Seventy two years of the "People's Republic" and the CCP theoreticians have not managed to establish true democracy ( the "Withering away of the State" desire of Communism ) nor have they given the workers their due rights nor have they established a progressive socio-economic system where there are no economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ) despite the PRC having a currency called Renminbi ( "People's Currency" ). LOL. There is so much socio-economic disparity. There are billionaires who can get anything they desire and there is the middle class who cannot afford high-quality medical treatment there and so have to go to India to avail of India's medical tourism industry ( which ironically most Indians cannot afford too ). Add to that in China the allowance of the stock market where people are allowed to gamble, lose money and commit suicide by jumping off buildings or into steel furnaces. China doesn't sound like a society to merge into.

 

[SuvarnaTeja]

China is not a true Communist society to admire and think of merging India and Pakistan in it. Seventy two years of the "People's Republic" and the CCP theoreticians have not managed to establish true democracy ( the "Withering away of the State" desire of Communism ) nor have they given the workers their due rights nor have they established a progressive socio-economic system where there are no economic classes ( rich, middle, poor ) despite the PRC having a currency called Renminbi ( "People's Currency" ). LOL. There is so much socio-economic disparity. There are billionaires who can get anything they desire and there is the middle class who cannot afford high-quality medical treatment there and so have to go to India to avail of India's medical tourism industry ( which ironically most Indians cannot afford too ). Add to that in China the allowance of the stock market where people are allowed to gamble, lose money and commit suicide by jumping off buildings or into steel furnaces. China doesn't sound like a society to merge into.

China has the best of the parts from all forms of governance hence it has been successful and did not economically collapse like Soviet Union or become an anarchic Democracy like India or a Capitalist totalitarian state like the US.

 

[jamahir]

China has the best of the parts from all forms of governance hence it has been successful and did not economically collapse like Soviet Union or become an anarchic Democracy like India or a Capitalist totalitarian state like the US.

You will call people allowed to jump into steel furnaces because of losing an artificial construct like money, "the best of the parts" ?

 

[ARMalik]

I am shocked to see that there are too many idiots in Pakistan who still fall for this nonsense from indians. It has been more than 70-years of barbarism on Kashmiris by indians, and Pakistani forces and people keep falling for this nonsense of peace manly due to Lack of a backbone.
Please do not hide behind this word called PEACE just because you DO NOT want to FIGHT to end the suffering of Kashmiri people. Let's call it what it is - Just a terrible hypocrisy at display here.

 

[peagle]

Because referendum is already complete

Pakistan , added Northern Regions with Pakistan
Sikh did their own referendum

Case closed

Pakistan added Northern regions with Pakistan?
Where did you get that from?

Clearly you're confused, because Pakistan has not including them in Pakistan despite massive demands from the local people.

Pakistan has looked into various options, to try and ensure the people enjoy greater political agency without it effecting the Jammu and Kashmir dispute. That is not same as making them constitutionally a part of Pakistan. Please do not spread misunderstandings.

 

[peagle]

You are right, the Indian Establishment and many citizens won't accept that proposal. So to get the debate started Pakistan should again put forward Musharraf's Four Point Formula and then both countries should look at a wider, region-scope progressive solution such as mine.

You do not commence negotiations with the public declaration of a compromise formula, that would be an insane thing to do. Parties sit down to arrive at a negotiated acceptable position, not declare the compromise at the start, that too only by one party, it just doesn't make sense.

No matter what the extremist in India think, the Kashmir dispute will only be settled through negotiations. Whether Pakistanis like it or not, this position has already been accepted by the Pakistani side, because the cost of war is too costly now, I'm not saying it cannot happen, but the Pakistani side sensibly has decided negotiated settlement to be best for long term peace.

The only party left is the Indians. that may take years or decades, frankly it doesn't matter because the longer this goes on, the more Indian society will pay the cost, I'm not referring to the financial cost. The state will manage, but this dispute has other costs to Indian society and India's position in the world. All we can do is wait, because the Kashmiris will not give up, and Pakistan will never leave them alone, so lets see.


Personally, I think we have discussed so much by now, at official levels, all the solutions have been discussed to death, so whenever we decide to sit down, it should be a lot easier to arrive at a solution. The Northern Ireland peace accord seems to have worked very well, it has bought about peace after 100 years of fighting, it's another workable solution.