A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

[Psychic]

OK, I will speak of India-administered Kashmir here.

I am concerned about the Kashmiri people which is why I speak of drastic reduction in Indian armed forces stationed there. This will result in no disappearances of innocent people, State acceptance of past incidents like the Kunan-Poshpora incident of 1991, no lockdowns, no arbitrary stoppage of telecommunications, no army or police barricades etc. I want Kashmiri people's lives to be as normal as anywhere else.

And in the big picture, through India becoming governed by a Progressive political system that will replace the current regressive and corrupt social system I speak of re-emergence of the Kashmiriyat values which have lately been eroded by regressive elements like Asiya Andrabi's burqa gang, the Dukhtaraan e Millat. Look at what Kashmir was in the past. Let us take the name of the famed Srinagar place called Lal Chowk :

They no longer care if you give them a lollypop or not.

And if someone wants to wear a burka, it is her choice. She has been in jail for what? She, her husband and scores of other political prisoners for demanding the right of self-determination as per UN resolutions; and you shamelessly say that she is a regressive gangster because she wears a burka. RIP logic.

Your progressive secular state's crimes cannot be whitewashed by giving a lollypop to Kashmiris. That won't work anymore. About their fate, only they should have the right to decide, not some Indian a thousand miles away. And you must be really ignorant to believe that only the "regressive ones" are against India.

 

[StormBreaker]

I am a pragmatist & a realist. Pakistan is not likely to be strong enough to take the Indian occupied Kashmir by force any time in the foreseeable future. On the other hand, regardless of the party in power, India is never going to ‘Gift’ IOK to Pakistan.

In view of the above, the only feasible solution is what was proposed by Musharraf; that is, to make the communication & travel between the two parts so easy for the “Kashmiris” that the border becomes irrelevant. Something similar to the USA- Canadian border.

At least in my humble opinion, whatever we as Pakistanis or the Indians think & wish, Kashmir problem is not going to disappear any time soon.

Sir,

A nice solution, But did you take the FATA into account ? The Birth of TTP ?

Kulbashan, RSS, Hindutva Hate prospering country wide ?

Your solution is a very good and easy one but not practical now, Time has passed, India’s hate for Pakistan isn’t just Kashmir, Kashmir is the least of the India’s hate triggers.

 

[Psychic]

Sir,

A nice solution, But did you take the FATA into account ? The Birth of TTP ?

Kulbashan, RSS, Hindutva Hate prospering country wide ?

Your solution is a very good and easy one but not practical now, Time has passed, India’s hate for Pakistan isn’t just Kashmir, Kashmir is the least of the India’s hate triggers.

That four point formula failed. India did not and does not want to talk about Kashmir.

In return for giving up Kashmir and dismantling resistance network, we were rewarded with India's presence in Afghanistan and her support to anti-Pak elements.

Yet people keep digging out corpses of the past. Failed policies which did more harm than good to Pakistan and Pakistan's case on Kashmir.

 

[CrazyZ]

In my experience, the Iranic Pakistanis on PDF are the coolest about race.

Uncannily, the guys crowing loudest about the racial differences are the Indic ones.

Two things step out obviously.

They want to build a barrier to Indian Muslims who did not join them.

And they want to desperately show the rest of the Muslim world, the Arabs a d Persians in the main, as the two poles of Islam, that they are somehow not descended from Hindu converts.

Observe closely. It's a 100% strikerate.

Ask @PAKISTANFOREVER his ethnicity furst lol

You seem to be obsessed with "racial" differences in Pakistan. I am sorry to inform you that migration and intermixing between ethnic groups inside Pakistan has been going on for a long time and has only accelerated after partition. Even Punjab and Sind have a number of folks that look Iranic. Caste and tribal division are more relevant to Hindus (especially in marriage), in our territories it was relevant back when we were ruled by the Brits but not anymore. This is a critical cultural difference between us and Indians that many ignore. Ethnic difference in Pakistan will disappear in a few generations due to migration, intermarriage, and common medias. Religious Pakistani diaspora in the west have no issues marrying Bangladeshi's. It would be unthinkable for a Gujrati Hindu to marry a Hindu Bengali unless they were both atheists.

 

[dreamer11]

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

A political solution for Palestine and lasting peace for Israel and Palestine

A political solution for Uighar and lasting peace for China and Turkey

A political solution for Rohingya and lasting peace for Burma and Bangladesh

IS never possible because it never be a POLITICAL it is always a RELIGIOUS WAR.

 

[padamchen]

You seem to be obsessed with "racial" differences in Pakistan. I am sorry to inform you that migration and intermixing between ethnic groups inside Pakistan has been going on for a long time and has only accelerated after partition. Even Punjab and Sind have a number of folks that look Iranic. Caste and tribal division are more relevant to Hindus (especially in marriage), in our territories it was relevant back when we were ruled by the Brits but not anymore. This is a critical cultural difference between us and Indians that many ignore. Ethnic difference in Pakistan will disappear in a few generations due to migration, intermarriage, and common medias. Religious Pakistani diaspora in the west have no issues marrying Bangladeshi's. It would be unthinkable for a Gujrati Hindu to marry a Hindu Bengali unless they were both atheists.

Racial and ethnic affiliations and identity continue to be strong nonetheless.

In a population of 220 million, some intermarriage is not going to change that.

When someone says he's Baloch, is it because his dad is a Baloch or both his parents are?

Over here at least it's pretty common for people to be open about their ethnicity, so on that I agree that it's not as big a thing in your society as caste is in ours. Also I've heard senior members quite open if their parents or relatives are of different ethnicities.

Also I suspect you speak of urban Pakistan.

It's uncommon anywhere else in the world for an outsider boy to be allowed to marry a girl of a community.

I doubt whether Pakistan bucks that trend.

You make it sound like rock n roll Scandinavia.

And he's back again with the we are Iranian people of the Indus Valley story.

Chal ab bata bhi de.

The entire world has difficulty differentiating between blonde blue eyed Aryan race Iranics of the Indus Valley and we Gangetic 5 foot Dravidian descent street shitters. Perhaps this quality to differentiate is a very rare talent, not everybody has it, much like the ability to see ultraviolet light. Only sons of the Indus delta soil have this unique talent.

Also I'd like to hear how Urdu is a Turkish and Persian language, some even go so far as to say Urdu and Dari are dialects of each other. Any connection to Indo Aryan languages is a lie. Urdu grammar is TOTALLY the same as Turkish and certainly not Punjabi or Gujarati.


Loool get out of this weird wannabe obsession you have with being Huns, Sakhas, Greeks, Turks and Persian. You are through and through South Asian. Nothing to be ashamed of. Your cuisine, your architecture, your clothes, your customs all lie closely with South Asia. And by you I mean Pakistan as a whole.

P.S reality check the Indus valley civilisation was South Asian. Nothing Arab or Turkish about it.

I feel you. Your heart is in the right place.

At one time long ago I thought that their might be hope for for Indo-Pak peace and some sort of Kashmir settlement. At this time attitudes have hardened on both sides and peace is unlikely, especially with BJP hardliners.

The only possibility for a peaceful settlement in my opinion is that Kashmir me made into a neutral zone with some sort of shared Indo-Pak-Local Kashmiri joint administration. Neither side wins or loses in this arrangement. Pakistan pledges to reduce militancy and India removes its military and lock down of Kashmir. Water rights of the Indus river would remain as per the Indus river treaty.

This is a logical compromise, that massively reduces the risk of miscalculation and nuclear exchange (which is the primary flaw of status quo that India favors).....but not every one is logical. Hardliners on both sides will oppose any peace in my opinion.

Territory is territory. Especially to a sovereign nation.

There is no scenario under which India would share it's territory with Pakistan.

Especially given our fraught history.

Time is a great healer, mender.

Maybe in a hundred or two hundred years, if you have moved our of your islamic mindset and carved out a national identity, maybe there could be a rapprochement.

Maybe some form of a union.

But that would not be limited to Kashmir.

That would include Punjab and Sindh as well.

A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

A political solution for Palestine and lasting peace for Israel and Palestine

A political solution for Uighar and lasting peace for China and Turkey

A political solution for Rohingya and lasting peace for Burma and Bangladesh

IS never possible because it never be a POLITICAL it is always a RELIGIOUS WAR.

@jamahir this is the post of the thread.

 

[Joe Shearer]

You seem to be obsessed with "racial" differences in Pakistan. I am sorry to inform you that migration and intermixing between ethnic groups inside Pakistan has been going on for a long time and has only accelerated after partition. Even Punjab and Sind have a number of folks that look Iranic. Caste and tribal division are more relevant to Hindus (especially in marriage), in our territories it was relevant back when we were ruled by the Brits but not anymore. This is a critical cultural difference between us and Indians that many ignore. Ethnic difference in Pakistan will disappear in a few generations due to migration, intermarriage, and common medias. Religious Pakistani diaspora in the west have no issues marrying Bangladeshi's. It would be unthinkable for a Gujrati Hindu to marry a Hindu Bengali unless they were both atheists.

i don't get into threads like this on principle, but your last statement caught my eye. It is absolutely ridiculous. Kindly inform yourself better on these matters before posting such things.

You dumb twat, unlike you, I study Computational Genetics and Archaeogenetics at Rutgers University. I'm guessing English isn't your first language because I clearly stated that the research shows that parsis have a much higher Iranian composition in their DNA than any other ethnic group in the indian subcontinent.

I DIDN'T SAY THEY WERE 100% IRANIAN YOU ILLITERATE RACIALIST WANNABE

and now just because I proved you wrong [emoji23][emoji23] now I'm Indian. Whatever makes you happy [emoji23][emoji28][emoji28] just please don't cry [emoji24][emoji23][emoji23]

While I heartily approve of your castigation of someone that you, not I, called a dumb whatever that word is, I request you to change that second-last epithet in capitals to 'RACIST'. Using the neologism 'RACIALIST' is overkill, in my opinion. On a thread discussion of this relatively coarser grain, sticking to the old and trusted brand irons is enough; once the smell of burning flesh dissipates, it provides a very clear identification.

This is a suggestion made with humility and a full understanding of the relatively greater status of a student of Computations Genetics and Archaeogenetics at Rutgers over a sometime student of History at Calcutta.

Because unlike you, I'm not ignorant. If you claim Europeans are just albino Africans and I argue against it, now am I Indian aswell you illiterate??

I remember destroying you in the thread about the multi racial wedding couple where you claimed that you're pure blood and not mixed with anything and then you ran away after I educated your dumbass [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

Please do tell me where you got you Degree in genetic studies from???? I would love to know [emoji23][emoji23]

The articles are clearly stating what I've argued for you jahil keyboard warrior.


Everyone here knows that you're a troll who's just looking for an argument [emoji23][emoji13]

It's just that nobody but you has done anything about it for a long, long time.

You have been insulted much, I suggest you to leave the thread.

Ah, I see that you are still a novice in these dark matters. Do take a couple of seconds to look up the word 'masochist'.

I haven't even got started..................bring it on.........

@Naofumi

See what I mean? Quod erat demonstrandum.

Bayghairati is strong in you isn't it. While everyone on this thread is against you, you still have no self respect.

Everyone knows you're a wannabe troll who doesn't even know how to troll properly.

Looks like someone didn't get any Eidi this year [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23][emoji23]

The slicing blows are getting lower and lower.

We never asked you to sabve us because we domn't know what slavery means. In our part of PK it was the Sikhs and Hindus would have been enslaved.

But be that as it may why did you NOT free your kith and kin in India instead of running away and hiding under the Sindhi ajraks?

This is getting better and better.

Will someone tell this foolish old man: what is an ajrak?

Nothing!!!
I agree with you.

You need to improve how you word your arguments. Either you are confused or your words are confusing.
My initial reply was in reference to your assertion that Kashmiri Pandits faced genocide, which is completely false. There was no genocide of Kashmiri Pundits.

You have not understood my reply and keep replying in a confusing manner. With respect, I suggest that you improve on how to build an argument and how to convey your point so it is less confusing.

Actually, I have to agree with you. That point should have been made clearly and without the clouds of verbiage that were surrounding it.

I do not have time for the likes of you, you do not have a basic level understanding of how to communicate. All you can do is jump from one point to next with no sensible answers.

You are the first person I will block on this forum, god help you develop a brain.

I just over-rode my ignore list and found whom you were shadow-boxing. You must read AgNoStiC MuSliM on the subject of people who lose rational arguments and then vanish to dance among the stars.

At one time long ago I thought that their might be hope for for Indo-Pak peace and some sort of Kashmir settlement. At this time attitudes have hardened on both sides and peace is unlikely, especially with BJP hardliners.

The only possibility for a peaceful settlement in my opinion is that Kashmir me made into a neutral zone with some sort of shared Indo-Pak-Local Kashmiri joint administration. Neither side wins or loses in this arrangement. Pakistan pledges to reduce militancy and India removes its military and lock down of Kashmir. Water rights of the Indus river would remain as per the Indus river treaty.

This is a logical compromise, that massively reduces the risk of miscalculation and nuclear exchange (which is the primary flaw of status quo that India favors).....but not every one is logical. Hardliners on both sides will oppose any peace in my opinion.

Hardliners need their hard lines to be inserted into their gazoo. What do they have to offer to solve this situation? Nothing.

 

[Raj-Hindustani]

A political solution only to make LOC as a permanent border!

Ohh But wait! Many people of elite club are filling their pockets just namesake of kashmir in the both sides (specially in Pakistan). will they ever allow?

So simple solution is that keep the status quote - do tweet on regularly, wright letters to UN, speak once in a year at UN, expense on defense (army and arm supplier - both are happy), free entertainment on daily basis (electronic media)...............

Why should we need to resolve the issue if many people are depended on kashmir issue.

 

[padamchen]

A political solution only to make LOC as a permanent border!

Ohh But wait! Many people of elite club are filling their pockets just namesake of kashmir in the both sides (specially in Pakistan). will they ever allow?

So simple solution is that keep the status quote - do tweet on regularly, wright letters to UN, speak once in a year at UN, expense on defense (army and arm supplier - both are happy), free entertainment on daily basis (electronic media)...............

Why should we need to resolve the issue if many people are depended on kashmir issue.

My previous post

Which caused puppy @Naofumi to call me a toota hua shayar

Kashmir is a hauwwa

A red herring

Sone ki chidiya

A black hole

Which 99.9% of awam of both nation's know nothing about and is held up when and where convenient for the masses to rally around their respective flags

 

[jamahir]

And if someone wants to wear a burka, it is her choice. She has been in jail for what? She, her husband and scores of other political prisoners for demanding the right of self-determination as per UN resolutions; and you shamelessly say that she is a regressive gangster because she wears a burka. RIP logic.

1. Agreed that it is this Asiya Andrabi's choice to wear the burqa but what right does she and her group have to create an oppressive atmosphere where other women are forced to wear it ? Years ago, she had launched a campaign in the Kashmir valley that announced that her group will throw acid in the faces of women who don't cover up. How is this tolerable ? If she had been doing this in the Progressive Muslim-majority countries she would have been punished severely. She is the same as the Taliban. In 2012 in Kashmir three young women started their all-girl music band called Pragaash but they had to close it down within three months due to threats from the mullahs :

Shortly after their win at the Battle of Bands, the group began to receive death and rape threats via their cell phones and Facebook profiles. The Grand Mufti publicly criticized the band, stating that they were exhibiting "indecent behaviour" and that "this kind of non-serious activity can become the first step towards our destruction". On 3 February 2013 he issued a fatwa against the group, stating that music was "not good for society" and that all of the "bad things happening in the Indian society are because of music"

This is the kind of oppressive atmosphere that Asiya Andrabi and her group created.

She has been in jail for what? She, her husband and scores of other political prisoners for demanding the right of self-determination as per UN resolutions; and you shamelessly say that she is a regressive gangster because she wears a burka. RIP logic.

Even the Taliban want the foreign troops out and want to effectively rule Afghanistan again. But do they have a vision for the country five years hence ? Or do they want their same old same old of burqa'ed women out of schools and workplaces ? Asiya Andrabi and her husband yes want self-determination for Kashmir but what is their vision for the region five years hence ? A Kashmiri version of Taliban-ruled Afghanistan ?

And this female's son seems also to be some Talibanized type who supported the former Bombay films actress Zaira Waseem in her morality-led decision to quit acting.

You should ask the three woman members of that former music band Pragaash whether they would like living in Asiya Andrabi's paradise.

@Naofumi

Ethnic difference in Pakistan will disappear in a few generations due to migration, intermarriage, and common medias.

Come on, I have seen some Pakistanis on PDF who go on and on about them being Arain and what not.

Racist thinking is as part of Pakistan as it is of India.

It would be unthinkable for a Gujrati Hindu to marry a Hindu Bengali unless they were both atheists.

@Joe Shearer, isn't your marriage a cross-cultural one ?

 

[El Sidd]

You must read AgNoStiC MuSliM on the subject of people who lose rational arguments and then vanish to dance among the stars.

@AgNoStiC MuSliM

wanna ride on the mars rover?

 

[RealNapster]

@Naofumi @Joe Shearer @MayaBazar @The_Showstopper @Mentee @RealNapster

Excuse any typos in the text.

Pakistan is not willing to accept the status quo, as suggested by your post (which i am also in support of BTW). If it was so easy we would have already seen this being done, atleast by Musharaf. So, i think, for this plan to materialise, india should step bsck some 10 km atleast in IOK lands. These additional 1000-2000 square Km will mean nothing to Pakistan and will certainly add nothing to its bucked but, Pakistan will loose all supports and India will come out to be a peacefull nation, so Pakistan will have no option but to declare LOC as IB.

With that, we can also allow citizens of both Kashmirs to shift their citizenship if they want. Allow Azad kashmir citizen (who ever want to) to go to indian side and Indian kashmir citizens to Pakistans side. This we saw happened before even some 10-15 years after partition people were still allowed to shift their country.

 

[Naofumi]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1152901258665181184

 

[CrazyZ]

Come on, I have seen some Pakistanis on PDF who go on and on about them being Arain and what not.

Racist thinking is as part of Pakistan as it is of India.

Truly religious Hindus only marry within their caste/tribe. This was also true in Pakistan for Muslims pre-partition but after years separation.....this no longer a major consideration in Pakistan. I've meet many Punjabi's in Lahore married to Pathans, Balochi's or Kashmiri's.

The city with the largest population of pathans in the world is Karachi (in Sind). There are many many pathans living in Lahore. Urban Pakistan is becoming a melting pot of our ethnicities. The inter ethnic migration trend is firmly set and probably been going on for decades... if not centuries.

My assessment remains that within a few generations, ethnic variations in Pakistan will largely disappear. We are no longer hampered by remnant Hindu thinking on firm cast and tribal separation.

 

[RealNapster]

I know and that is why I speak of drastic reduction of armed forces in India-administered Kashmir

I doesn't matter how many soldeirs you have in a part of "Your Own" land. After both parties reach to a settlement Indian Kashmiri (majority of them) will already stop persuading the azaadi cause so you will any way reduce troops as it wont be necessary.

Leave us some land from your share, not all. Some.. India still get bigger slice of the cake.