A political solution for Kashmir and lasting peace for India and Pakistan

[Jackdaws]

All initiatives of peace should be welcome. People should not die. I personally feel, Ireland offers a good template for resolution. No exchange of borders but free movement of goods, services and people.

 

[Cliftonite]

ISI and Pakistan's involvement in Kashmir is grossly exaggerated by Indians. Pakistan can supply weapons and funds but as long as Kashmiris do not have the will to secede, all efforts are futile. We tried it in 1965 and failed. The Indians need to realize that Kashmiris do not wish to live under India any longer.

 

[jamahir]

Kashmir me made into a neutral zone with some sort of shared Indo-Pak-Local Kashmiri joint administration. Neither side wins or loses in this arrangement.

That is similar to Gaddafi's solution to the issue. He basically called for an independent Kashmir comprised of Kashmir from both sides and helped in administration by those Ba'ath party who have self-exiled themselves out of Iraq ( I think that's what he said ).

Though your idea is a good one what I am proposing is something bigger than Kashmir - India and Pakistan replacing their political, social and economic systems with a Progressive one which will automatically solve Kashmir.

Pakistan pledges to reduce militancy

The question how will Pakistan control separatist elements like Hizb-ul-Mujahideen's Syed Salahuddin in case they try to attack the Indian mainland ?

Pakistan is not willing to accept the status quo, as suggested by your post (which i am also in support of BTW). If it was so easy we would have already seen this being done, atleast by Musharaf.

Well, just to be clear, I too want the status quo to be changed as this cannot last forever. India-administered Kashmir has recently come out of a nine month lockdown and there are a few hundred thousand armed personnel stationed there.

So, i think, for this plan to materialise, india should step bsck some 10 km atleast in IOK lands. These additional 1000-2000 square Km will mean nothing to Pakistan and will certainly add nothing to its bucked but, Pakistan will loose all supports and India will come out to be a peacefull nation, so Pakistan will have no option but to declare LOC as IB.

I will take some time to process that.

With that, we can also allow citizens of both Kashmirs to shift their citizenship if they want. Allow Azad kashmir citizen (who ever want to) to go to indian side and Indian kashmir citizens to Pakistans side. This we saw happened before even some 10-15 years after partition people were still allowed to shift their country.

In the OP I too spoke of cross-border visits but have not spoken of shifting their citizenship because the change in both countries would render such change in citizenship unnecessary.

@jamahir this is the post of the thread.

I think I believe that too, which is why my solution for Kashmir goes through changing the political, social and economic structure of India and Pakistan.

When these two countries become changed in the same way there will be a religion-driven bunch but who can be routed.

But this will require the youth in both countries to see what is good for them in the current and the near-future.

 

[dreamer11]

Pakistan is not willing to accept the status quo, as suggested by your post (which i am also in support of BTW). If it was so easy we would have already seen this being done, atleast by Musharaf. So, i think, for this plan to materialise, india should step bsck some 10 km atleast in IOK lands. These additional 1000-2000 square Km will mean nothing to Pakistan and will certainly add nothing to its bucked but, Pakistan will loose all supports and India will come out to be a peacefull nation, so Pakistan will have no option but to declare LOC as IB.

With that, we can also allow citizens of both Kashmirs to shift their citizenship if they want. Allow Azad kashmir citizen (who ever want to) to go to indian side and Indian kashmir citizens to Pakistans side. This we saw happened before even some 10-15 years after partition people were still allowed to shift their country.

It is not 1 or 2 or 3 months old problem it is 70+ years old problem.Pakistan saying same thing from last 70+
years, won't changed anything, in meanwhile India claiming 'it will retake remaining Kashmir too'.

Modi is best bet for u next is Yogi (as a PM),then u don't have a choice except accepting the conditions like 1971.

 

[jamahir]

n meanwhile India claiming 'it will retake remaining Kashmir too'.

Can you link me to such a claim ?

Modi is best bet for u next is Yogi (as a PM),then u don't have a choice except accepting the conditions like 1971.

What choice ?

 

[Joe Shearer]

1. Agreed that it is this Asiya Andrabi's choice to wear the burqa but what right does she and her group have to create an oppressive atmosphere where other women are forced to wear it ? Years ago, she had launched a campaign in the Kashmir valley that announced that her group will throw acid in the faces of women who don't cover up. How is this tolerable ? If she had been doing this in the Progressive Muslim-majority countries she would have been punished severely. She is the same as the Taliban. In 2012 in Kashmir three young women started their all-girl music band called Pragaash but they had to close it down within three months due to threats from the mullahs :

This is the kind of oppressive atmosphere that Asiya Andrabi and her group created.



Even the Taliban want the foreign troops out and want to effectively rule Afghanistan again. But do they have a vision for the country five years hence ? Or do they want their same old same old of burqa'ed women out of schools and workplaces ? Asiya Andrabi and her husband yes want self-determination for Kashmir but what is their vision for the region five years hence ? A Kashmiri version of Taliban-ruled Afghanistan ?

And this female's son seems also to be some Talibanized type who supported the former Bombay films actress Zaira Waseem in her morality-led decision to quit acting.

You should ask the three woman members of that former music band Pragaash whether they would like living in Asiya Andrabi's paradise.

@Naofumi



Come on, I have seen some Pakistanis on PDF who go on and on about them being Arain and what not.

Racist thinking is as part of Pakistan as it is of India.



@Joe Shearer, isn't your marriage a cross-cultural one ?

It is, and so is my daughter's, and my two cousins who married a Punjabi and a Rajputni respectively, and another - himself a child of two people from different castes - who married a Sri Lankan Tamil.

That remark was total crap.

Truly religious Hindus only marry within their caste/tribe.

Please. This is bullshit.

This was also true in Pakistan for Muslims pre-partition but after years separation.....this no longer a major consideration in Pakistan. I've meet many Punjabi's in Lahore married to Pathans, Balochi's or Kashmiri's.

The city with the largest population of pathans in the world is Karachi (in Sind). There are many many pathans living in Lahore. Urban Pakistan is becoming a melting pot of our ethnicities. The inter ethnic migration trend is firmly set and probably been going on for decades... if not centuries.

My assessment remains that within a few generations, ethnic variations in Pakistan will largely disappear. We are no longer hampered by remnant Hindu thinking on firm cast and tribal separation.

 

[padamchen]

ISI and Pakistan's involvement in Kashmir is grossly exaggerated by Indians. Pakistan can supply weapons and funds but as long as Kashmiris do not have the will to secede, all efforts are futile. We tried it in 1965 and failed. The Indians need to realize that Kashmiris do not wish to live under India any longer.

Last August should have made it obvious to you that it's been obvious to us.

There will be no compromise. On religious or any other claims over the sovereignty of India.

 

[Cliftonite]

Last August should have made it obvious to you that it's been obvious to us.

There will be no compromise. On religious or any other claims over the sovereignty of India.

Penny wise, pound foolish. A ruling party cannot change the hearts of 10 million natives, only suppress their dissent temporarily. Pretty soon that 10 million is going to give way to 200 million. Sab yaad rakha jaye ga.

I've got low patience for fascistic minded Indians today. Go worry about your gout medication uncle instead of writing long a** Shakespearean-eque quartets here. It's the Muslims of India who will decide their own fate, not some middle aged men on pdf.

 

[dreamer11]

Can you link me to such a claim ?



What choice ?

https://www.financialexpress.com/de...d-gilgit-baltistan-not-without-basis/1963895/

https://www.timesnownews.com/videos...a-back-for-70-years-the-newshour-debate/60798

 

[RealNapster]

In the OP I too spoke of cross-border visits but have not spoken of shifting their citizenship because the change in both countries would render such change in citizenship unnecessary

Still, even after the settlement many will shout Kashmir bany ga Pakistan. Tab unko bolna, bhai Kashmir (as a whole) wont become Pakistan but yes you can become Pakistani. My recommendation was for those individuals.

It is not 1 or 2 or 3 months old problem it is 70+ years old problem.Pakistan saying same thing from last 70+
years, won't changed anything, in meanwhile India claiming 'it will retake remaining Kashmir too'.

Modi is best bet for u next is Yogi (as a PM),then u don't have a choice except accepting the conditions like 1971.

You dream alot @dreamer11

 

[padamchen]

Penny wise, pound foolish. A ruling party cannot change the hearts of 10 million natives, only suppress their dissent temporarily. Pretty soon that 10 million is going to give way to 200 million. Sab yaad rakha jaye ga.

I've got low patience for fascistic minded Indians today. Go worry about your gout medication uncle instead of writing long a** Shakespearean-eque quartets here. It's the Muslims of India who will decide their own fate, not some middle aged men on pdf.

There is no 10 million here. Things are moving to plan.

I strongly suspect with all the chatter about Gilgit that the real thrust is going to come from elsewhere.

 

[Jackdaws]

ISI and Pakistan's involvement in Kashmir is grossly exaggerated by Indians. Pakistan can supply weapons and funds but as long as Kashmiris do not have the will to secede, all efforts are futile. We tried it in 1965 and failed. The Indians need to realize that Kashmiris do not wish to live under India any longer.

A % of Kashmiris don't and that too only in the valley.

 

[CrazyZ]

Please. This is bullshit.

How many Dalits marry Brahmins in India??

 

[Joe Shearer]

How many Dalits marry Brahmins in India??

A number have done. There is no national register of Dalit marriages to Brahmins, so it is difficult to give you an exact number by year. But a member of this forum was the child of such a marriage.

 

[CrazyZ]

A number have done. There is no national register of Dalit marriages to Brahmins, so it is difficult to give you an exact number by year. But a member of this forum was the child of such a marriage.

Inter-caste marriage occurs in India but this is still a taboo. Less then 5% of marriages in India are Inter-caste. Most likely in individuals that are secular and not too devote.