'A matter of honour': Women forced to stay in flooded Pakistan village

[JackTheRipper]

The 400 residents of Basti Ahmad Din, a tiny Pakistani village left surrounded by floodwater after torrential monsoon rains are facing starvation and disease.

But they have refused pleas to evacuate.

"It is up to the village elders to decide," said Shireen Bibi, 17, when asked if she would prefer to go to the safety of a camp on dry land.

"We are Baloch. Baloch don t allow their women to go out," said Basti Ahmad Din resident Muhammad Amir, referring to the dominant ethnic group in the village.

Women can even be killed for bringing "shame" by interacting with men or marrying someone they, rather than their families, choose.

'A matter of honour': Women forced to stay in flooded Pakistan village

The 400 residents of Basti Ahmad Din, a tiny Pakistani village left surrounded by floodwater after torrential monsoon rains are facing starvation and disease.

www.nation.com.pk

 

[Maula Jatt]

similar issues when Abrar from wild lens used drones to film areas of south Punjab where many Baloch tribes lived - they got angry as they thought he was filming their women but I mean of course, when he explained, they were nice enough to understand and let him go

So I don't know why you @Mirzali Khan keep saying they are secular and liberal, you say it so much that I thought Khuzdar is the nightlife capital of Pakistan

their educated Ethno nationalist class might be but not the society at large

 

[Mirzali Khan]

So I don't know why you @Mirzali Khan keep saying they are secular and liberal, you say it so much that I thought Khuzdar is the nightlife capital of Pakistan

The youth is much more secular and liberal which is why they aren’t interested in PTI nor in Pakistani nationalism.

 

[Maula Jatt]

The youth is much more secular and liberal which is why they aren’t interested in PTI nor in Pakistani nationalism.

Pakistan isn't exactly Islamist in nature or practice, the founding fathers were not theologists- but it was based on Muslim nationalism as an identity
, PTI is the same, there's little Islamic in em certainly JI,TLP, JUI-F etc are more Islamist than them but they do talk about Muslim nationalism, not exactly Islamic/theology nationalism, as in we are Muslim, we are an important country in the Islamic world, we need to improve the status of the Muslims by improving our country - stuff like that

I have a theory for this , don't know how accurate it is

So Baloch society at large is still traditionally conservative at par with FATA probably but unlike FATA their society is not exactly democratic with jirgas but based on sardars (issues of all of southern Pakistan, place currently not suffering from it in the country is Karachi, KPK, North and central Punjab, AJK, Gilgit, so basically another north, south divide the country is going through)

Now the south isn't exactly more liberal than the north but feudal/sardars play an oversized role in the south, this class of people never believed in Islamist ideology (feudal in our areas didn't support Pakistan till Indians openly started talking about socialism unlike in more democratic/ feudal free regions of UP, Bengal where Pakistan was popular from the get-go), when Islamism was gaining ground in the north, feudal (as these areas were more tightly controlled) made sure to not let it affect their land

They didn't go through our experiences, that's why their politics is different - A Baloch or Sindhi youth can't vibe with the Muslim nationalism of PTI as they don't have the background/experience that the rest of the country had but they can vibe with ethnic nationalism as when we were fed Muslim/Islamic nationalism, the sardar politicians (who controlled their regions more firmly than GOP) fed them a separate Baloch, Sindhi identity If Saraiki areas were not under Punjab politicians than the same thing would have happened there too as they also face issues with feudalism

SO I think its incorrect to call them secular or liberal- but just that due to different backgrounds, we identify with different priorities - for north Pakistan represents a Muslim identity not necessarily an Islamic one but south vibes with ethnic identity more

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Pakistan isn't exactly Islamist in nature or practice, the founding fathers were not theologists- but it was based on Muslim nationalism as an identity
, PTI is the same, there's little Islamic in em certainly JI,TLP, JUI-F etc are more Islamist than them but they do talk about Muslim nationalism, not exactly Islamic/theology nationalism, as in we are Muslim, we are an important country in the Islamic world, we need to improve the status of the Muslims by improving our country - stuff like that

I have a theory for this , don't know how accurate it is

So Baloch society at large is still traditionally conservative at par with FATA probably but unlike FATA their society is not exactly democratic with jirgas but based on sardars (issues of all of southern Pakistan, place currently not suffering from it in the country is Karachi, KPK, North and central Punjab, AJK, Gilgit, so basically another north, south divide the country is going through)

Now the south isn't exactly more liberal than the north but feudal/sardars play an oversized role in the south, this class of people never believed in Islamist ideology (feudal in our areas didn't support Pakistan till Indians openly started talking about socialism unlike in more democratic/ feudal free regions of UP, Bengal where Pakistan was popular from the get-go), when Islamism was gaining ground in the north, feudal (as these areas were more tightly controlled) made sure to not let it affect their land

They didn't go through our experiences, that's why their politics is different - A Baloch or Sindhi youth can't vibe with the Muslim nationalism of PTI as they don't have the background/experience that the rest of the country had but they can vibe with ethnic nationalism as when we were fed Muslim/Islamic nationalism, the sardar politicians (who controlled their regions more firmly than GOP) fed them a separate Baloch, Sindhi identity If Saraiki areas were not under Punjab politicians than the same thing would have happened there too as they also face issues with feudalism

SO I think its incorrect to call them secular or liberal- but just that due to different backgrounds, we identify with different priorities - for north Pakistan represents a Muslim identity not necessarily an Islamic one but south vibes with ethnic identity more

Great post bro.

Shows Pakistan has more of a North/South divide than an ethnic one.

 

[Maea]

Pakistan isn't exactly Islamist in nature or practice, the founding fathers were not theologists- but it was based on Muslim nationalism as an identity
, PTI is the same, there's little Islamic in em certainly JI,TLP, JUI-F etc are more Islamist than them but they do talk about Muslim nationalism, not exactly Islamic/theology nationalism, as in we are Muslim, we are an important country in the Islamic world, we need to improve the status of the Muslims by improving our country - stuff like that

I have a theory for this , don't know how accurate it is

So Baloch society at large is still traditionally conservative at par with FATA probably but unlike FATA their society is not exactly democratic with jirgas but based on sardars (issues of all of southern Pakistan, place currently not suffering from it in the country is Karachi, KPK, North and central Punjab, AJK, Gilgit, so basically another north, south divide the country is going through)

Now the south isn't exactly more liberal than the north but feudal/sardars play an oversized role in the south, this class of people never believed in Islamist ideology (feudal in our areas didn't support Pakistan till Indians openly started talking about socialism unlike in more democratic/ feudal free regions of UP, Bengal where Pakistan was popular from the get-go), when Islamism was gaining ground in the north, feudal (as these areas were more tightly controlled) made sure to not let it affect their land

They didn't go through our experiences, that's why their politics is different - A Baloch or Sindhi youth can't vibe with the Muslim nationalism of PTI as they don't have the background/experience that the rest of the country had but they can vibe with ethnic nationalism as when we were fed Muslim/Islamic nationalism, the sardar politicians (who controlled their regions more firmly than GOP) fed them a separate Baloch, Sindhi identity If Saraiki areas were not under Punjab politicians than the same thing would have happened there too as they also face issues with feudalism

SO I think its incorrect to call them secular or liberal- but just that due to different backgrounds, we identify with different priorities - for north Pakistan represents a Muslim identity not necessarily an Islamic one but south vibes with ethnic identity more

So basically u r saying that, ethno nationalism of rural areas is bs? Umh who could ve thought about that? Btw these sardar culture is present everywhere, obviously way less, im from disct. Gujrat and we too have these kind of sardars. Untill people dont realize that all this "honor" "zaat" etc. is just bs. There will be no progress.

 

[ahaider97]

Shows Pakistan has more of a North/South divide than an ethnic one.

Never a great idea to generalize Pakistan like that.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

Never a great idea to generalize Pakistan like that.

Politically speaking that is true though.

PTI has Punjab and KPK while Sindh and Balochistan have their own parties.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

If they let their women folk die, what honor will they have left to protect?

 

[ahaider97]

Politically speaking that is true though.

PTI has Punjab and KPK while Sindh and Balochistan have their own parties.

PPP used to be a national party. KPK had ANP. These things change. If we believe the hypothesis, then something happened after 1947 that turned the south ethnocentric. Which negates the hypothesis altogether. Sindh and Bengal played a significant role in the creation of Pakistan. Both moved toward ethnocentricism, Bengal more so then Sindh. And saying that sarakis are not ethnocentric because of Punjabi politicians is bs on another level. Nawab of Bahwalpur was one of the biggest supporter of Pakistan. A big reason why PPP was a national party in the first place was due to support in South Punjab. Even today when it comes to the govt in Lahore, politicians from South Punjab are the kingmakers. Jahangir Tareen is the reason PTI formed a govt in Punjab in the first place. This lahori bs is the reason we want a separate province, today this issue is the biggest vote puller in south punjab.

Saraikis are the most Pakistanis of Pakistanis. We are at the literal center of the country. Found in all 4 provinces and are multi ethnic, Muslim majority. And we are found only in Pakistan unlike the Pakhtun and the Punjabis. To say that Punjabi politicians protected us from going ethnocentric, I can only laugh.

 

[Maula Jatt]

PPP used to be a national party. KPK had ANP. These things change. If we believe the hypothesis, then something happened after 1947 that turned the south ethnocentric. Which negates the hypothesis altogether. Sindh and Bengal played a significant role in the creation of Pakistan. Both moved toward ethnocentricism, Bengal more so then Sindh. And saying that sarakis are not ethnocentric because of Punjabi politicians is bs on another level. Nawab of Bahwalpur was one of the biggest supporter of Pakistan. A big reason why PPP was a national party in the first place was due to support in South Punjab. Even today when it comes to the govt in Lahore, politicians from South Punjab are the kingmakers. Jahangir Tareen is the reason PTI formed a govt in Punjab in the first place. This lahori bs is the reason we want a separate province, today this issue is the biggest vote puller in south punjab.

Saraikis are the most Pakistanis of Pakistanis. We are at the literal center of the country. Found in all 4 provinces and are multi ethnic, Muslim majority. And we are found only in Pakistan unlike the Pakhtun and the Punjabis. To say that Punjabi politicians protected us from going ethnocentric, I can only laugh.

calm down lol , south Punjab along with the Industrial districts of North/central Punjab were PPP-friendly areas, but PPP never really took off in Punjab after ZAB something I have a feeling post-IK Punjab would do with PTI (although I hope not, PTI should not end up becoming an Ethno nationalist party like PPP)
PPP pet project was Saraiki whatever which they considered greater Sindh, their politicians in SP were all feudal and religious Peers just like in Sindh

When they made government in Sindh they promoted ethno nationalism with the help of feudal, peers to consolidate power, You best believe they would have done the same in SP but it being part of a bigger province meant even though at many times it could have formed government in SP but it wasn't able to as they had to win a bigger pie to make government - it being part of a bigger province stopped PPP which in turn stopped a potential issue with EN just like in Sindh - they went through the education, policies, religious issues of what was happening in rest of Pakistan in minus Sindh, Balochistan

PPP used to be a national party. KPK had ANP. These things change. If we believe the hypothesis, then something happened after 1947 that turned the south ethnocentric. Which negates the hypothesis altogether. Sindh and Bengal played a significant role in the creation of Pakistan. Both moved toward ethnocentricism, Bengal more so then Sindh. And saying that sarakis are not ethnocentric because of Punjabi politicians is bs on another level. Nawab of Bahwalpur was one of the biggest supporter of Pakistan. A big reason why PPP was a national party in the first place was due to support in South Punjab. Even today when it comes to the govt in Lahore, politicians from South Punjab are the kingmakers. Jahangir Tareen is the reason PTI formed a govt in Punjab in the first place. This lahori bs is the reason we

want a separate province,

there's no issue here, we need decentralization- my only issue is sperate identity which I consider wrong

today this issue is the biggest vote puller in south punjab.

Saraikis are the most Pakistanis of Pakistanis. We are at the literal center of the country. Found in all 4 provinces and are multi ethnic, Muslim majority. And we are found only in Pakistan unlike the Pakhtun and the Punjabis. To say that Punjabi politicians protected us from going ethnocentric, I can only laugh.

FYI thier are Indian 47 people who call their accent Muktani, Riyasati- they live in Delhi and Punjab like the rest of Punjabi 47 refugees

 

[lastofthepatriots]

View attachment 879168
calm down lol , south Punjab along with the Industrial districts of North/central Punjab were PPP-friendly areas, but PPP never really took off in Punjab after ZAB something I have a feeling post-IK Punjab would do with PTI (although I hope not, PTI should not end up becoming an Ethno nationalist party like PPP)
PPP pet project was Saraiki whatever which they considered greater Sindh, their politicians in SP were all feudal and religious Peers just like in Sindh

When they made government in Sindh they promoted ethno nationalism with the help of feudal, peers to consolidate power, You best believe they would have done the same in SP but it being part of a bigger province meant even though at many times it could have formed government in SP but it wasn't able to as they had to win a bigger pie to make government - it being part of a bigger province stopped PPP which in turn stopped a potential issue with EN just like in Sindh - they went through the education, policies, religious issues of what was happening in rest of Pakistan in minus Sindh, Balochistan


FYI there are Indian 47 people who call their accent Muktani, Riyasati- they live in Delhi and Punjab like the rest of Punjabi 47 refugees

Riyasti is like the civilized version of saraiki..

Saraiki is already a sweet language but riyasti is sweeter.

Riyasti is basically Multani Punjabi.. The saraiki spoken in sindh is quite different to Saraiki in South punjab. Mianwali version is also more or less Punjabi.

I know @ahaider97 will be upset about this but reality is reality.

Plus saraiki people have the same biradiris as Punjabis like rajput, jatt, ect., so Saraiki ethno nationalism has a pretty weak foundation to stand on.

In regards to South Punjab, yes we deserve our own province. We are sick of taking orders from Lahoris.

 

[Mirzali Khan]

PPP used to be a national party. KPK had ANP.

Last time PPP was a national party was in 2008. KPK also voted for MMA IN 2002.

These things change.

Yea of course not saying it won't change, but this is the situation at the moment.

 

[ahaider97]

Riyasti is like the civilized version of saraiki..

Saraiki is already a sweet language but riyasti is sweeter.

Riyasti is basically Multani Punjabi.. The saraiki spoken in sindh is quite different to Saraiki in South punjab. Mianwali version is also more or less Punjabi.

I know @ahaider97 will be upset about this but reality is reality.

Plus saraiki people have the same biradiris as Punjabis like rajput, jatt, ect., so Saraiki ethno nationalism has a pretty weak foundation to stand on.

In regards to South Punjab, yes we deserve our own province. We are sick of taking orders from Lahoris.

None of my real life Punjabi friends have said to me that saraiki is punjabi. In fact I m pretty sure they'd be offended if someone confused them with a saraiki. Only on the internet, you find Punjabi nationalists saying these things. What's reality is that saraikis don't think that they are Punjabis. and somehow that is now a PPP greater Sindh conspiracy. The more you learn.

And buddy I won't get upset, as you beautifully put it, I'm multi layered and have given up my nationalism. For me compared to shia Islam, nothing else is worth defending. But in isolation, I can play around with ideas. I do have a saraiki background after all, can't change that. If saraiki became enemies of Islam I'd disown them with zero hesitation. I had a saraiki class fellow with family ties to lashkare jhangvi, you think I had any kind of saraiki solidarity with him? F him and his damn family of terrorists. All of them can shove their saraikiness up theirs.

These things are only on the internet, the ground realities are a different story.

 

[lastofthepatriots]

None of my real life Punjabi friends have said to me that saraiki is punjabi. In fact I m pretty sure they'd be offended if someone confused them with a saraiki. Only on the internet, you find Punjabi nationalists saying these things. What's reality is that saraikis don't think that they are Punjabis. and somehow that is now a PPP greater Sindh conspiracy. The more you learn.

And buddy I won't get upset, as you beautifully put it, I'm multi layered and have given up my nationalism. For me compared to shia Islam, nothing else is worth defending. But in isolation, I can play around with ideas. I do have a saraiki background after all, can't change that. If saraiki became enemies of Islam I'd disown them with zero hesitation. I had a saraiki class fellow with family ties to lashkare jhangvi, you think I had any kind of saraiki solidarity with him? F him and his damn family of terrorists. All of them can shove their saraikiness up theirs.

These things are only on the internet, the ground realities are a different story.

I’m not a Punjabi nationalist. Neither Punjabis nor Saraikis are a homogeneous people.

However, linguistically Saraiki is an offshoot of Punjabi language.