A first: US allowed to check Indian warship

[Twain]

I'll be honest and say I don't get the outrage over this when things like this are happening.


USS JOHN C. STENNIS, At Sea (NNS) -- Two pilots from India completed their Training Command Carrier Qualification (TCCQ) aboard USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) May 16.

I believe somewhere around 32 Indian pilots are getting carrier qualified in the US so that when the Vikramaditya commissions, you will have a full complement of pilots already qualified to make arrested landings on an aircraft carrier. We are training Indian pilots on our most important ships all the time.

How long do you think it will take China to get 30-40 pilots qualified for arrested landings with no outside assistance? How many do you think are going to crash into the stern of the Varyag?

 

[COLDHEARTED AVIATOR]

I'll be honest and say I don't get the outrage over this when things like this are happening.


USS JOHN C. STENNIS, At Sea (NNS) -- Two pilots from India completed their Training Command Carrier Qualification (TCCQ) aboard USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) May 16.

I believe somewhere around 32 Indian pilots are getting carrier qualified in the US so that when the Vikramaditya commissions, you will have a full complement of pilots already qualified to make arrested landings on an aircraft carrier. We are training Indian pilots on our most important ships all the time.

How long do you think it will take China to get 30-40 pilots qualified for arrested landings with no outside assistance? How many do you think are going to crash into the stern of the Varyag?

Its not an outrage..mostly non-Indians are posting that and some Indians are too worried looking at their neighbours who are paying a price for their wrong doings in the region.This would have been discussed while signing the contract and i dont think there is a problem with that.I think India is always too cautious with her defence forces...every thing is carefully thought about.

 

[IND151]

Indian defence institutions must remember this inscident before reaching any agreement with the US.

i am strictly agains US defence equipmens in Indian inventory.
we were happy with the Russian equipment iin the past. we have open invtation by the Europian & Isarial for JV & TOT. why do we need US???????????????????

do Europeans and israelis have products like P8I,C 130 J Hercules and C 17 GM III?

we have ordered these products because they are top grade

even if US doesn't provide spare parts in war, it wont affect us that badly

we will have MTA too

in case of Apache, Chinook are concerned we will have LCH and Mi 17s too

but we wont order most Tier 1 hardware from US i.e fighter jets,tanks etc.

because we cant afford having such vital platforms sanction prone

this way, US gets billions of dollars worth contracts it wants and India is not completely dependent on sanction prone US military hardware

 

[Capt.Popeye]

I'll be honest and say I don't get the outrage over this when things like this are happening.


USS JOHN C. STENNIS, At Sea (NNS) -- Two pilots from India completed their Training Command Carrier Qualification (TCCQ) aboard USS John C. Stennis (CVN 74) May 16.

I believe somewhere around 32 Indian pilots are getting carrier qualified in the US so that when the Vikramaditya commissions, you will have a full complement of pilots already qualified to make arrested landings on an aircraft carrier. We are training Indian pilots on our most important ships all the time.

How long do you think it will take China to get 30-40 pilots qualified for arrested landings with no outside assistance? How many do you think are going to crash into the stern of the Varyag?

There is nothing to feel outraged about.

EUMA is both a valid and prudent measure incorporated into Contracts governing transfer of Armaments. And any (non-Banana Republik) Country incorporates it into such Contracts. Even the weaponry coming to India from France has had it and will have it for instance. Just that the USA has a rather Hollywood-esque methodology to carry it out, in contrast with say France.

Coupled with the US propensity to drop sanctions, then lift them again- like a chorus-girl playing with her skirt; this obtuse methodology is the cause for the reaction that you may see in some quarters. Suspicion of US motives has not abated, the Americans would be wise to notice that.

However, that being said; it is well known and appreciated that the USN has extended facilities to the IN aviators to hone their skills on the USN Carriers to hone their CATOBAR skills which would be deficient otherwise considering that the IN presently is not operating a STOBAR or CATOBAR Carrier.

Both the Pentagon (DoD) and "Foggy-Bottom" (DoS) may be better off to keep both views in mind if they hope to "win friends and influence people" in India. India still treats USA with caution.

 

[Twain]

There is nothing to feel outraged about.


Coupled with the US propensity to drop sanctions, then lift them again- like a chorus-girl playing with her skirt; this obtuse methodology is the cause for the reaction that you may see in some quarters. Suspicion of US motives has not abated, the Americans would be wise to notice that.

That's a relic of the cold war. the attitude that "you are either with us or against us". Stupid policy that lasted way too long and didn't start to change until Clinton was elected. But it was and is not unique to the USA, just one current example is Iran and the S-300's from russia. The US has it's faults when it comes to weapons sales but so does Russia, they are just different problems. The US does put embargoes in place but Russia...well how often have they raised the price on you after contracts have been signed? or delivered purchased items months or years late?

My suggestion would be to look at the countries that are considered primary US allies, Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea and NATO members. Once you are considered a primary ally, how often do they have problems with weapons systems deliveries?

The US policy and attitudes toward India have been stupid and short sighted since the 1950's only in the last couple of decades have they begun to change. We can't change the past only deal with things are they presently are.

 

[INDIAISM]

I hope they are not going to Inspect our Fighter Jets and Navy Ships like Shivalik frigade or Ins Virat which are using American Engines because that will be realy humilating for the Govt and us.....

 

[Capt.Popeye]

That's a relic of the cold war. the attitude that "you are either with us or against us". Stupid policy that lasted way too long and didn't start to change until Clinton was elected. But it was and is not unique to the USA, just one current example is Iran and the S-300's from russia. The US has it's faults when it comes to weapons sales but so does Russia, they are just different problems. The US does put embargoes in place but Russia...well how often have they raised the price on you after contracts have been signed? or delivered purchased items months or years late?

My suggestion would be to look at the countries that are considered primary US allies, Canada, Australia, Japan, South Korea and NATO members. Once you are considered a primary ally, how often do they have problems with weapons systems deliveries?

The US policy and attitudes toward India have been stupid and short sighted since the 1950's only in the last couple of decades have they begun to change. We can't change the past only deal with things are they presently are.

I do agree with the general drift of your post. The USA has historically tended to be very judgemental towards both allies and adversaries since the days of the Cold War, unfortunately that was predicated on simply too many cases of "Bad Judgement". Commercial/logistical difficulties are more palatable than political slights. And it has a lot to do with the fact that many "intellectually mediocre" people have occupied the White House in the past half century or so. They were simply unequal to the ambit of power of their position. But my intention is not to mock any thing American, just to cause some reflection on the fact that Americans themselves have lost out majorly because of that.

Just think of the irony of it all: the USA has been one of the biggest providers of aid to India including the biggest gift of food-grains under PL-480 when successive years of drought in India created a crisis. Then later agro-technology came to India from the USA via Norman Borlaug that India set up its "Green Revolution" that helps India now to feed its teeming millions; nearly completely by itself. Even the largest operations of USAID and the Peace Corps. have probably been in India.

As an amusing aside; in the time of the JFK presidency, John Kenneth Galbraith (the then US Ambassador to India) found that among the icons appearing on the "kitsch" calendar art that could be found in every Indian Hut or road-side tea-shop or village smithy; had JFK's picture along with the pantheon of Gods and Mythological Personalities that form part of Indian folk-lore!

Why? because the US had been forth-coming with aid and assistance when India reached some critical situation. Then again there have American Presidents who were simply unable to see beyond the end of their noses; whether it was with respect to India or with respect to so many countries in Asia, Africa or Latin America. USA's ill-advised "deep" involvement in Afghanistan during what was already the declining phase of the Soviets is hurting so many countries now, not least of all USA. So even Indo-American relations have always been something of a "roller-coaster ride". As Indians, we hope that is ending; but we are wary- that will be highly prudent.

I hope and pray that Americans in general and American Policy-Makers specifically; finally are able to form a sense of History. Maybe because the USA is relatively young country; they have not done so yet.