4- Type 054 Frigates from China, Pakistan's next Goal

[Aamir Hussain]

In my humble opinion, PN is trying to form at least three hunter killer groups built around dedicated ASW platform with heavy frigates acting as Air Defense platforms.

The hunter/killer group would be built around two multi-purpose patrol frigates with state of the art ASW capability (Typically ASW Platforms hunt in pairs). At present, none of the platforms have state of the art ASW capability. The Type 21's have a mix of various weapons system including some Swedish systems. The F22P's are also not that up to the mark in ASW capability.

Similarly, the fleet air defense frigate is just not there to give cover to the ASW units. This is where the need for a FM-90 armed frigate or a destroyer emerges (I am not in favor of buying destroyer as it costs too much to run over the platforms' mission life -- the newer frigates have taken over most of the dedicated destroyer roles with ever smaller weapon systems and electronics).

All the above frigates would be armed with AshM -- this where PN has an edge with a combo of Harpoon, Exocet and C802 armed platforms. All of them are at the cutting edge of the technology and most of them, if not all, are battle tested weapon systems.

The need of the hour is to upgrade the ASW capability, ( including ASW Helo platforms-- I do not know why PN is reluctant to embark ASW/Anti ship helos on its Type 21 frigates -- they are decent ships and have some life left in them) and provide fleet SAM systems.

My above theory is based upon the current weapons suit on the type 21's.

Furthermore, the submarine force will act as the main punch against the intrusion of major surface units into the exclusion zone if we end up going to war against India.

My spin on the discussion.

 

[mughaljee]

Please correct me,
is this better then F-22?

 

[Tomahawk]

Lets suppose Pakistan does get HQ 9 or HQ 16 with type 054 destroyers, what class of indian destroyers will be at the same part with type 054 destroyers interms of Ship to Air warfare capability?

Currently Chinese Type 054A has HQ-16 SAM in 32-cell VLS system which is a Chinese copy of Russian 9M317 (NATO codename: SA-N-12) Shtil semi-active radar-homing medium-range SAM.

Now if we talk about India, the IN surface vessels already have good SAM capabilities, some of them are mentioned below:

Talwar (Krivak III) Class: It employs 9M317 (SA-N-11, navalised SA-17) missile and 24 such missiles are carried.

Shivalik Class Frigates: For medium range anti-air coverage, a single 3S-90 launcher mount for the Shtil SAM system with 24 missiles is employed. The Shtil SAM system fires the 9M38M1 missile or the improved 9M38M2 missile. The 9M38M1, which is also known as the SA-N-7 by NATO or Shtil in Russian Navy service, is a navalised SA-11. The 9M38M2, which is also known as the SA-N-12 by NATO, is a navalised SA-17. The 9M38M1 missile is reported to have a range of 3.5 to 25 km, while the 9M38M2 has a range of 32 km or more.

Delhi Class Destroyers: It employs 9M38M1 (SA-N-7, navalised SA-11) missile and 24 such missiles are carried.

 

[raveolution]

Currently Chinese Type 054A has HQ-16 SAM in 32-cell VLS system which is a Chinese copy of Russian 9M317 (NATO codename: SA-N-12) Shtil semi-active radar-homing medium-range SAM.

Now if we talk about India, the IN surface vessels already have good SAM capabilities, some of them are mentioned below:

Talwar (Krivak III) Class: It employs 9M317 (SA-N-11, navalised SA-17) missile and 24 such missiles are carried.

Shivalik Class Frigates: For medium range anti-air coverage, a single 3S-90 launcher mount for the Shtil SAM system with 24 missiles is employed. The Shtil SAM system fires the 9M38M1 missile or the improved 9M38M2 missile. The 9M38M1, which is also known as the SA-N-7 by NATO or Shtil in Russian Navy service, is a navalised SA-11. The 9M38M2, which is also known as the SA-N-12 by NATO, is a navalised SA-17. The 9M38M1 missile is reported to have a range of 3.5 to 25 km, while the 9M38M2 has a range of 32 km or more.

Delhi Class Destroyers: It employs 9M38M1 (SA-N-7, navalised SA-11) missile and 24 such missiles are carried.

The SAM systems on board comparable ships in the IN are as follows:

1) Delhi Class

32 x Barak SAM(4 x 8 cell VLS units)
2 x Shtil SAM systems

2) Kolkata Class (U/C)

2 x 32-cell Barak II SAM
2 x Kashtan or combinataion of AK-630 30mm guns and Barak SAM in CIWS role

3) Talwar (Krivak III) Class

1 3S-90 launcher for 9M317 (SA-N-12) SAMs
8 Igla-1E (SA-16) SAMs

4) Godavari Class

24 x Barak SAM (3 x 8 cell VLS units)

5) Shivalik Class (U/C)

32 x Barak SAM
9M317 (SA-N-12) SAM

6) Rajput Class

4 x 30 mm AK-230 guns or 4 x 30 mm AK-630M guns (replaced by Barak SAM in some vessels),
2 x S-125M (NATO: SA-N-1) SAM twin launchers

7) Brahamaputra Class

24 x Barak SAM (3 x 8 cell VLS units)

 

[Penguin]

error: double post

 

[Penguin]

Talwar (Krivak III) Class: It employs 9M317 (SA-N-11, navalised SA-17) missile and 24 such missiles are carried.

In addition to 1 single rail launcher for Shtil (24 missiles) , Talwar has 2 Kashtan firing units , each Kashtan unit carries 32 short range SAM. (8km range navalised variant of the 9M311 NATO: SA-N-11 / SA-19)

Shivalik Class Frigates: For medium range anti-air coverage, a single 3S-90 launcher mount for the Shtil SAM system with 24 missiles is employed. The Shtil SAM system fires the 9M38M1 missile or the improved 9M38M2 missile. The 9M38M1, which is also known as the SA-N-7 by NATO or Shtil in Russian Navy service, is a navalised SA-11. The 9M38M2, which is also known as the SA-N-12 by NATO, is a navalised SA-17. The 9M38M1 missile is reported to have a range of 3.5 to 25 km, while the 9M38M2 has a range of 32 km or more.

In addition to 1 single rail launcher for Shtil (24 missiles), Shavalik was initially slated to also received 2x Kashtan units with 32 SA-19 each, but apparently is now equipped with 2x2x8 10km VL Barak as a complement to the 24 round single rail Shtil launcher.

Delhi Class Destroyers: It employs 9M38M1 (SA-N-7, navalised SA-11) missile and 24 such missiles are carried.

2 single rail launchers per ship, each with 24 rounds, for a total of 48 rounds, plus 2x2x8 (32) 10km range Barak VL SAM.

In short, that adds some weight to the SAM load-out ....

 

[iioal malik]

Great is the contract is sign???

 

[Tomahawk]

Great is the contract is sign???

No not yet, all Pakistani defense enthusiasts are desperately waiting for that moment. I hope and pray to hear this good news soon.
For the first time it will give an area air defense capability to our Naval Fleet.
It can also provide the air defense umbrella to our F-22P Frigates and they will be able to operate in deep sea along with Type 054A in time of need.

 

[bc040400065]

Please correct me,
is this better then F-22?

Yes this is better and much heavier class frigate.

 

[Myth_buster_1]

At present, none of the platforms have state of the art ASW capability. The Type 21's have a mix of various weapons system including some Swedish systems. The F22P's are also not that up to the mark in ASW capability.

Pakistan had acquired 2 Active Towed Array sonars from France to modernize amazon class frigates and this should be a decent ASW dedicated capability along with naval Lynx.
PN also have one of the latest long range torpedoes DM2A4 for Agosta-90B package.

 

[Penguin]

Pakistan had acquired 2 Active Towed Array sonars from France to modernize amazon class frigates and this should be a decent ASW dedicated capability along with naval Lynx.
PN also have one of the latest long range torpedoes DM2A4 for Agosta-90B package.

I have no doubt that if some of the ASW equipment installed on the ex-UK Amazons during their modernization is better than the standard equipment on the F22P then this ASW equipment will be transferred from the ex-UK ships to the F22P if at all possible after the ex-UK ships are finally paid off (to not do so would be a waste of money).

 

[Myth_buster_1]

I have no doubt that if some of the ASW equipment installed on the ex-UK Amazons during their modernization is better than the standard equipment on the F22P then this ASW equipment will be transferred from the ex-UK ships to the F22P if at all possible after the ex-UK ships are finally paid off (to not do so would be a waste of money).

I dough the ATAS are advance enough to take place of current ASW systems in F-22P.

MODERNISATION : Exocet, torpedo tubes and Lynx helicopter facilities were all added in RN service, but torpedo tubes were subsequently removed in all but Badr and Shahjahan and all are to be retrofitted by Pakistan using Swedish equipment. Exocet was not transferred and the obsolete Seacat SAM system is being replaced by Chinese LY 60N which is a copy of Aspide. New EW equipment has been installed. ATAS sonar has been acquired (two sets only) but plans to update the hull sonars have been shelved. Other equipment upgrades are projected and include Harpoon (from the Gearings), a DA08 search radar, an optronic director, new 30 mm and 20 mm guns, SRBOC chaff launchers. An improved combat data system with a datalink to shore HQ is also being fitted. The first fully equipped ship is not expected to complete until late 1998, but some of the modifications are being done during routine maintenance periods.

 

[pakistantiger]

this will be great enhancement to our navel force but we should enlarge the navy and also increase the numbers from 4 to 6

 

[pakistantiger]

This will be great enhancement to our navel force but we should enlarge the navy and also increase the numbers from 4 to 6

 

[Aamir Hussain]

Pakistan had acquired 2 Active Towed Array sonars from France to modernize amazon class frigates and this should be a decent ASW dedicated capability along with naval Lynx.
PN also have one of the latest long range torpedoes DM2A4 for Agosta-90B package.

I will try to get some info. on the towed sonar but as far as I know there is some confusion as to the status of Lynx in PN. May be one the senior members can shed some light on the "Confusion."